As long as its not directed by Mr Len Flare
Star trek 4
- Thread starter starbuck
- Start date
If I had to chose between the two-Abrams, but I liked Lin as well.
But, I personally would prefer to see someone new.
But, I personally would prefer to see someone new.
I don't think this trek needs a tos fan (with nostalgia). It needs, if anything, someone who is a 'fan' of THIS trek and is at least a bit inspired by it and its characters (and doesn't want to pander to reboot haters because they're wise enough to understand that it backfires and it's a lost cause). If you don't get someone who believes in this trek and is here for this trek, then it cannot have a future for me.
Also, I hate to be that person but the movie of this trilogy that was directed by a 'fan' (Lin) is the LEAST successful of the 3, while the ones directed by non fan, JJ, still are the more critically acclaimed and more successful for the general audience. So yeah, even by that alone if I were to take the hint and think about what might possibly be the best option to make this trek successful, I don't think Lin is the smartest choice for paramount&co at this point.
I prefer JJ (I doubt he'd coming back though): I find his trek had more heart and depth, and HE did make people who didn't care about trek before not only like the reboot but go back and watch tos too (I know some of them!). With Lin, I get the feeling his heart wasn't into it and he rushed the more emotional scenes (or completely cut them) to prioritize the action scenes. JJ would never cut the scene where Sulu talks about his family, and the significance of them being in yorktown while krall was about to destroy it, because it makes no sense to introduce the concept of him having a family there if you aren't going to do something with that and add depth to Sulu, not to mention the scene being a bonding moment between Sulu and Uhura. I also think JJ gives to Uhura more agency in her relationship with Spock, he'd probably not completely omit her perspective into the relationship the way this movie did, and he'd maybe give them at least one more moment that was narratively earned by the couple after what they went through and the fact they both almost died.
Even with the Kirk/Bones dynamic, another director would have maybe realized that it didn't make so much sense for Bones to not know that Kirk was about to leave the ship too, and thus the fact he'd probably have feelings about this as well and express that (which is an important aspect because Kirk leaving would make the point of what he'd do if Spock left well, moot. It's annoying that in this fixation with making Kirk/Spock THE bromance, Bones is constantly treated as chopper liver in spite of being the most realistic best friend of James T Kirk). Honestly, the way Kirk's whole crisis is handled in the movie comes across, to me, as if they added it post production (which is possible since they did reshoots with the actress whom he shares all the scenes where he effectively makes it explicit he wants to leave).
But I digress..
Lin, intentional or not, treated the character dynamics almost like a decoration for the action and comic relief and I don't like it, nor I like this team going backwards (in the name of tos nostalgia) with the character dynamics of the first movies.
JJ is more engaging in interviews too, he makes at least the effort to actually talk about the characters and say things about their stories that give me a tiny clue that he was interested.
Lin's interviews are boring and repetitive and when he actually talked about the characters of this trek, he said things that gave me the impression he didn't pay attention to basic characterization of this version of the characters and their dynamics.
However, to be fair, it's also true that I think Lin did as good as he could do in the circumstances and I honestly don't believe any of the other names that were rumored as possible directors at the time would have 100% made a better job than him. I think with a new team there is always the risk of falling in the clichè of being the ones who ignore what the original team did, and this creative team wasn't immune to that (e.g., them going backwards with the dynamics), but still they managed to respect what came before 'enough' and more than I was willing to give them credit for before I watched the movie. So, all things considered kudos to them. They were the best we could get in these circumstances, I'm just bitter and sad and discouraged about the fact that as a fan of this trek too I have to settle because it could have been worse in other hands.
Also, I hate to be that person but the movie of this trilogy that was directed by a 'fan' (Lin) is the LEAST successful of the 3, while the ones directed by non fan, JJ, still are the more critically acclaimed and more successful for the general audience. So yeah, even by that alone if I were to take the hint and think about what might possibly be the best option to make this trek successful, I don't think Lin is the smartest choice for paramount&co at this point.
I prefer JJ (I doubt he'd coming back though): I find his trek had more heart and depth, and HE did make people who didn't care about trek before not only like the reboot but go back and watch tos too (I know some of them!). With Lin, I get the feeling his heart wasn't into it and he rushed the more emotional scenes (or completely cut them) to prioritize the action scenes. JJ would never cut the scene where Sulu talks about his family, and the significance of them being in yorktown while krall was about to destroy it, because it makes no sense to introduce the concept of him having a family there if you aren't going to do something with that and add depth to Sulu, not to mention the scene being a bonding moment between Sulu and Uhura. I also think JJ gives to Uhura more agency in her relationship with Spock, he'd probably not completely omit her perspective into the relationship the way this movie did, and he'd maybe give them at least one more moment that was narratively earned by the couple after what they went through and the fact they both almost died.
Even with the Kirk/Bones dynamic, another director would have maybe realized that it didn't make so much sense for Bones to not know that Kirk was about to leave the ship too, and thus the fact he'd probably have feelings about this as well and express that (which is an important aspect because Kirk leaving would make the point of what he'd do if Spock left well, moot. It's annoying that in this fixation with making Kirk/Spock THE bromance, Bones is constantly treated as chopper liver in spite of being the most realistic best friend of James T Kirk). Honestly, the way Kirk's whole crisis is handled in the movie comes across, to me, as if they added it post production (which is possible since they did reshoots with the actress whom he shares all the scenes where he effectively makes it explicit he wants to leave).
But I digress..
Lin, intentional or not, treated the character dynamics almost like a decoration for the action and comic relief and I don't like it, nor I like this team going backwards (in the name of tos nostalgia) with the character dynamics of the first movies.
JJ is more engaging in interviews too, he makes at least the effort to actually talk about the characters and say things about their stories that give me a tiny clue that he was interested.
Lin's interviews are boring and repetitive and when he actually talked about the characters of this trek, he said things that gave me the impression he didn't pay attention to basic characterization of this version of the characters and their dynamics.
However, to be fair, it's also true that I think Lin did as good as he could do in the circumstances and I honestly don't believe any of the other names that were rumored as possible directors at the time would have 100% made a better job than him. I think with a new team there is always the risk of falling in the clichè of being the ones who ignore what the original team did, and this creative team wasn't immune to that (e.g., them going backwards with the dynamics), but still they managed to respect what came before 'enough' and more than I was willing to give them credit for before I watched the movie. So, all things considered kudos to them. They were the best we could get in these circumstances, I'm just bitter and sad and discouraged about the fact that as a fan of this trek too I have to settle because it could have been worse in other hands.
With......Rockmen???
I would like Lin to direct, Pegg and Jung to write. I think they're a great team. I definitely think the bridge interiors will be updated. Wouldn't mind seeing new uniforms, but I loved the uniforms in Beyond so I'd like to see those again.
Agree that interior of ship will and should be updated for the A. More streamlined bridge n better hallway and floor color combo
Uniforms were great in Beyond keep those
Uniforms were great in Beyond keep those
Plus more cat women, you can never have enough cat women, one thing ST4 needs is cat women and morse code prision break's, two things star Trek 4 needs, cat women, morse prision break's and pink floating klingon blood, three things ST4 needs, cat women, morse break out's, pink blood and torpedo surgery.....four more things ST4 needs........
^ Amongst ST4's weaponry are such diverse elements as cat women, prison breaks, pink Klingon blood, torpedo surgery, and nice red Starfleet uniforms. Oh, DAMN! 
Nah, we'll let Orci direct that. Just so we laugh at him as he tries to deny the villain is Sybok, despite it being obvious he is Sybok.
"So this smiling Vulcan, he's Sybok, right?"
"No, but he is from canon."
Both JJ and Lin produced excellent work. I was particularly happy with Lin in BEY. I've read and re-read the major criticisms toward both, and I simply disagree with the vast majority of those critiques.
I wouldn't mind someone new, provided that talent and competency and passion is present. But I would be delighted if Lin returned.
Still, I'm actually more concerned about who is writing the story and what that will ultimately be for whoever directs.
And production and marketing. Paramount needs to produce these films more quickly and market them like they want them to succeed as blockbusters.
I wouldn't mind someone new, provided that talent and competency and passion is present. But I would be delighted if Lin returned.
Still, I'm actually more concerned about who is writing the story and what that will ultimately be for whoever directs.
And production and marketing. Paramount needs to produce these films more quickly and market them like they want them to succeed as blockbusters.
Yes please to the bolded part. I disagree with most of the Abrams and Lin antipathy as well, but certainly think the large gap between the films is ridiculous.
The problem with that...is that Star Trek doesn't seems very popular with directors. They had trouble finding one before Lin. Many factors are entering into this I suppose...
I'd rather have J.J. back. Aside from the fact that I prefer his style, I also prefer the work done by the team he usually brings with him.
No. It really, really doesn't.
It will take them some time to HAMMER out the story.............no.............ok......I'll get me coat.
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