Slavery

[Aviva]

Slavery's bad, right?! We'd all agree that it's one of the most heinous things that human beings could ever do to each other.

And yet the ENT writers revel in a lot of slavery orientated episodes, particularly sex slavery, without any hint of apology. I'm thinking of the Orions in 'Bound' and the kinky slave market in 'Rajiin', as well as other examples. Not to mention the way T'Pol is treated throughout the show, as a voyeuristic sex object.

So if slavery, particularly sex slavery is so morally wrong, I wish ENT had actually got some balls and said so. Watching the episodes, it's the opposite message that comes across. They could still have included some 'sexy scenes' for their ratings without making a mockery of the issue of women being sold into a life of prostitution and degradation just to add to the shows titilation factor.

 

[Mach5]

So if slavery, particularly sex slavery is so morally wrong, I wish ENT had actually got some balls and said so. Watching the episodes, it's the opposite message that comes across.

Interesting, I thought the "Slavery is evil" message was stressed pretty strongly, especially in "Borderland."

 

[Aviva]

Interesting, I thought the "Slavery is evil" message was stressed pretty strongly, especially in "Borderland."

Of course, they're going to claim that slavery is evil. And yet they're still going to make sure we get a good long hard look at the victims of it, dancing or parading in their skimpy porno outfits simply for the male viewer's titilation.

I just think there's a huge moral double standard in the way it's presented. But that's a major gripe I have about ENT, that it's superficially over-sexualised anyway simply to get non-Trek fans to watch it.

 

[Penguin]

Have to agree with you Aviva. The Sexy Sex Slave thing was ran into the ground on Ent.

But then I guess TPTB perhaps believed that would ovrcome bad
writing and poor plot lines.

 

[Mach5]

Of course, they're going to claim that slavery is evil. And yet they're still going to make sure we get a good long hard look at the victims of it, dancing or parading in their skimpy porno outfits simply for the male viewer's titilation.

That's what some of us like to call "eye candy," and I just wish there was more of it in trek (JJ delivered, though).

Stop moralizing, It's getting old.

 

[Broccoli]

I'm thinking of the Orions in 'Bound'

In where the twist was that the guys were the slaves, right?

and the kinky slave market in 'Rajiin',

In which Archer steals the title character so she wouldn't live as a slave anymore?

Not to mention the way T'Pol is treated throughout the show, as a voyeuristic sex object.

So, the same way all sexy women have been treated in Trek since the original series?

So if slavery, particularly sex slavery is so morally wrong, I wish ENT had actually got some balls and said so.

They did.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Not to mention the way T'Pol is treated throughout the show, as a voyeuristic sex object.

I think there's galaxies between sexual slavery and and an actress voluntarily agreeing to a job where she knows she'll be ogled.

 

[Aviva]

That's what some of us like to call "eye candy," and I just wish there was more of it in trek (JJ delivered, though).

Stop moralizing, It's getting old.

Stop moralising? Have you any idea how many thousands of women and girls are forced into sex slavery in our current enlightened world? Why shouldn't that be a genuine storyline treated seriously on Trek, rather than mocked?

As for 'eye candy', well, personally, I would prefer those viewers who want to watch porn to just watch porn and leave Star Trek to genuine Star Trek fans.

 

[Roger Wilco]

As for 'eye candy', well, personally, I would prefer those viewers who want to watch porn to just watch porn and leave Star Trek to genuine Star Trek fans.

Yes, gods forbid beautiful women appearing on tv unless engaged in explicit sexual activities.

 

[Aviva]

In where the twist was that the guys were the slaves, right?

Yes, that was the alleged limp plot twist at the end. Still doesn't change the fact that the Orion women are near naked dancing prostitutes.

In which Archer steals the title character so she wouldn't live as a slave anymore?

Fair enough, Archer does do that.

So, the same way all sexy women have been treated in Trek since the original series?

Is Kira portrayed as a "sex object"?

 

[T'Parm]

Yes slavery is bad, but it exists I do not think Enterprise should have ignored slavery nor should they have had an episode about the moral aspects of how evil slavery is. When star trek does that it tends to create bad episodes you know like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". Let the viewer see the evil and make up their own mind.

 

[Mach5]

Stop moralising? Have you any idea how many thousands of women and girls are forced into sex slavery in our current enlightened world?

Great, now you're preaching too...

(sure, trafficking is a major issue in today's world, but come on, this is STAR TREK, for the love of God)

 

[JiNX-01]

So if slavery, particularly sex slavery is so morally wrong, I wish ENT had actually got some balls and said so.

They did.

Yes, they made it very clear when Archer declared that the oppression of a class of sentient individuals -- based on gender -- was subject to relativism. If you're in Singapore, it's a bad thing. If you're the new BFF of an alien captain with access to Fantastic! Technology! it's "tough luck Chuck."

Probably forgot about that one because the cogenitor isn't sexy.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Honestly, as much as the op is saying the producers of Enterprise didn't have balls, does it really take much guts to say "sex slavery is morally wrong?"

They pretty much did anyway, but took it for granted (everyone on the crew simply immediately accepted it was wrong). In both Rajiin and Bound, the crew treated women as guests, not as slaves because the idea of a galaxy that still allowed slavery was strange to them. Of course, it wasn't strange to other people but that doesn't mean the show condoned it.

 

[Aviva]

Great, now you're preaching too...

(sure, trafficking is a major issue in today's world, but come on, this is STAR TREK, for the love of God)

I was simply trying to make a point, a point that you don't seem to think has any value.

Roddenberry's concept of Star Trek was an idealistic one, when humanity had left behind racism, poverty, war, hunger, etc. What about sexism? Don't you think sexism is a major consideration too? In the 60s, when TOS was made, sexism wasn't relevant and accusations of sexism in the portrayal of females in TOS would have been a laughable subject, as women on TV were indeed seen as sex objects in that time period.

Is it still a laughable subject now, though? I'm really inspired by some of the women in Trek, like Janeway and Kira. That's the kind of Trek I see as really enjoyable and really inclusive. I see males and females in the Star Trek universe as being entirely egalitarian, both in the portrayal of the characters and also in the way the viewers are treated.

 

[Mach5]

Sure, ENT objectified women. But NEWSFLASH, it objectified men too, on numerous occasions!

Voyager had tons of sexism, to which Kate Mulgrew kept protesting after Jeri Ryan replaced Jennifer Lien (blame it on the Beebs).

Enterprise, however, didn't discriminate (Trip and Archer have been parading half naked even more than T'Pol did).

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

So if slavery, particularly sex slavery is so morally wrong, I wish ENT had actually got some balls and said so. Watching the episodes, it's the opposite message that comes across.

Ignoring the fact that I did get the message, very strongly even, is it really that necessary for producers these days to moralize every single episode? We know slavery is bad, mmm'kay? Everybody knows. It's a bit unnecessary and irritating to tell people what they already know, especially if it's done in a moralizing way.

 

[Aviva]

Sure, ENT objectified women. But NEWSFLASH, it objectified men too, on numerous occasions!

Yes, Trip and Archer are seen in their underwear. Does anyone particularly notice that, though and does it detract from the way the character is portrayed, (ie: as a mere sex object?). I would say not at all. To me, Malcolm is the most attractive man there and I make that assumption on the way his character is portrayed, not on his body image.

Voyager had tons of sexism, to which Kate Mulgrew kept protesting after Jeri Ryan replaced Jennifer Lien (blame it on the Beebs).

Yes and Jeri Ryan marks the change to this new sexed-up Trek, which at the time didn't fit at all comfortably with the matriarchal Voyager culture of the woman captain and woman engineer.

 

[Mach5]

Yes and Jeri Ryan marks the change to this new sexed-up Trek, which at the time didn't fit at all comfortably with the matriarchal Voyager culture of the woman captain and woman engineer.

Yet it turned a bad TV show into a watchable one. Ain't that some sh#t...

 

[Aviva]

Yet it turned a bad TV show into a watchable one. Ain't that some sh#t...

For you maybe but not for me. I was a Voyager fan before Jeri Ryan but gradually lost interest afterwards.

I think the basic premise of nurturing a Borg drone back to her humanity was a fantastic one. In the hands of a competant actress it could have really worked very well. But it all became about the cult of Jeri Ryan and for me, the show lost some basic credibility due to it.