Spoilers Shouldn't the Farragut disaster have happened already?

[JonnyQuest037]

SPOILERS for the SNW episode "Lost in Translation."

So the latest episode of Strange New Worlds establishes that James T. Kirk becomes the first officer of the Farragut at the rank of Lieutenant, around the same time that Christopher Pike is promoted to Fleet Captain.

But according to Memory Alpha, SNW is currently taking place in 2259. The TOS episode "Obsession," which takes place in 2268, tells us the USS Farragut was destroyed 11 years before, which would put its destruction in 2257, before SNW even begins. So Kirk should most likely be on another assignment. (On my TOS timeline, I have Kirk on an Earthside assignment at this point.)

So is this just a screw up, or are they intentionally changing the timeline for some reason, like when ENT established Zephram Cochrane's disappearance was in 2219 instead of 2117, 150 years before "Metamorphosis"? Any thoughts?

 

[fireproof78]

Reviewing the transcript there is zero indication it was destroyed, since Kirk survived:

Captain's log, stardate 3619.6. One of the men in critical condition, the other is dead. And I, I am now even more convinced that this is not only an intelligent creature, but the same which decimated the crew of the USS Farragut eleven years ago in another part of the galaxy.

(emphasis added)

~From TOS: Obsession.

 

[drt]

The vampire cloud only killed people, it never physically damaged anything non-living.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Reviewing the transcript there is zero indication it was destroyed, since Kirk survived:

Captain's log, stardate 3619.6. One of the men in critical condition, the other is dead. And I, I am now even more convinced that this is not only an intelligent creature, but the same which decimated the crew of the USS Farragut eleven years ago in another part of the galaxy.

(emphasis added)

~From TOS: Obsession.

Yes, as did the XO, who commend Kirk for his bravery,

 

[fireproof78]

So is this just a screw up, or are they intentionally changing the timeline for some reason,

Neither; MA is wrong. Farragut wasn't destroyed.

 

[DEWLine]

Okay, so that's settled.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, the Farragut wasn't destroyed. That's never stated in Obsession and none of the various tie-ins that have depicted the incident with the vampire cloud have depicted it being destroyed.

It seems MA is taking a very liberal definition of their "strictly canonical only" policy. Again. But then, no one really believed it was that alleged policy behind their decision not to acknowledge Adira's gender, did they?

 

[Tuskin38]

But then, no one really believed it was that alleged policy behind their decision not to acknowledge Adira's gender, did they?

I did, because it happens all the time (just check out the talk page of any contentious subject). It's just never on a subject that gets a lot of outside attention like that one did.

It seems MA is taking a very liberal definition of their "strictly canonical only" policy.

Neither; MA is wrong. Farragut wasn't destroyed.

Neither the Farragut article or Obsession article on M-A mention the Farragut being destroyed. I even checked a random revision from 2019 for the Farragut page, no mention of it being destroyed.

Nice to see people claiming things without actually checking if they're true.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Okay, putting aside whether or not the Farragut was actually destroyed, has SNW ever implied or stated that the ship's encounter with the cloud creature has already happened, or is it still supposed to be in Kirk's future? Because the feeling I'm getting from SNW is that it hasn't happened yet, which is off from the established timeline. Has there been a mention of Captain Garrovick or anything like that?

At the very least, with half of the ship's crew killed by the cloud creature (including Captain Garrovick), you'd expect the Farragut to be out of commission for a while, with the remaining crew reassigned. That's the real essence of my question here.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Okay, putting aside whether or not the Farragut was actually destroyed, has SNW ever implied or stated that the ship's encounter with the cloud creature has already happened, or is it still supposed to be in Kirk's future? Because the feeling I'm getting from SNW is that it hasn't happened yet, which is off from the established timeline. Has there been a mention of Captain Garrovick or anything like that?

At the very least, with half of the ship's crew killed by the cloud creature (including Captain Garrovick), you'd expect the Farragut to be out of commission for a while, with the remaining crew reassigned. That's the real essence of my question here.

Well, I don't think we'll ever know it in any detail, since SNW isn't about the Farragut or Captain Garrovick.

 

[drt]

The incident should be like five years prior to the current “present”.

That’s plenty of time to get a new crew on the ship and return to normal duty. The first officer that gave Kirk a commendation may have been promoted to Farragut’s captain (since that seems to be how Starfleet rolls) and asked Kirk to remain with the ship.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

The incident should be like five years prior to the current “present”.

That’s plenty of time to get a new crew on the ship and return to normal duty. The first officer that gave Kirk a commendation may have been promoted to Farragut’s captain (since that seems to be how Starfleet rolls) and asked Kirk to remain with the ship.

I agree. Since the First Officer is technically second in command, and probably received commendations for getting the ship and remaining crew out of a fatal situation, they were probably promoted to Captain of the ship. Since Kirk showed heroism above and beyond in saving the ship and crew, it probably warranted such a promotion to First Officer of Farragut.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The incident should be like five years prior to the current “present”.

How is 2257 five years before 2259?

 

[Tuskin38]

Okay, putting aside whether or not the Farragut was actually destroyed, has SNW ever implied or stated that the ship's encounter with the cloud creature has already happened, or is it still supposed to be in Kirk's future?

Why should it? It's not important to the story and it has been 2 years.

At the very least, with half of the ship's crew killed by the cloud creature (including Captain Garrovick), you'd expect the Farragut to be out of commission for a while,

It's been 2 years.

 

[HotRod]

How is 2257 five years before 2259?

2 years? 5 years? Does it matter? We can plainly see that the ship still exists. If we have a date for the cloud creature attack, and the ship still exist, 2 years later. I think we can extrapolate on our own.

I mean, does everything need to be explained?

 

[Mudd]

2 years? 5 years? Does it matter? We can plainly see that the ship still exists. If we have a date for the cloud creature attack, and the ship still exist, 2 years later. I think we can extrapolate on our own.

I mean, does everything need to be explained?

Emphatically no.

And it's true that it's never been suggested that Farragut was destroyed.

 

[Dukhat]

I don’t remember anything canonical stating that the Farragut was destroyed during the cloud creature encounter. I do remember a long-held non-canonical belief that Kirk commanded a destroyer before the Enterprise, but I can’t recall the exact source for that.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I suspect they're saving the details of the incident for an intimate exchange between him and La'an.

 

[Mudd]

I don’t remember anything canonical stating that the Farragut was destroyed during the cloud creature encounter. I do remember a long-held non-canonical belief that Kirk commanded a destroyer before the Enterprise, but I can’t recall the exact source for that.

It's in Stephen Whitfield's The Making of Star Trek. Presumably he got it from some draft of the TOS Writer's Guide. But it's never been mentioned onscreen that I know of.

 

[The Wormhole]

I did, because it happens all the time (just check out the talk page of any contentious subject). It's just never on a subject that gets a lot of outside attention like that one did.

MA has a habit of making allowing a lot of things from non-canonical sources. Indeed, the only time besides Adira's gender that I noticed the "Strictly Canonical Only" policy being enacted was when they refused to accept the term "Kelvin Timeline" which undoubtedly was done to appease the anti-Abrams gatekeepers.

Okay, putting aside whether or not the Farragut was actually destroyed, has SNW ever implied or stated that the ship's encounter with the cloud creature has already happened, or is it still supposed to be in Kirk's future? Because the feeling I'm getting from SNW is that it hasn't happened yet, which is off from the established timeline. Has there been a mention of Captain Garrovick or anything like that?

Not remotely canon at all, but a few years back there was a novel released set between Disco's first two seasons which depicted the Farragut's encounter with the vampire cloud. Of course, they also said Section 31 was involved in the incident because like I said, this was a novel.