Should Sisko Have Been Promoted Earlier?

[Mage]

I never understood the logic people place on comparing real ranking systems in Earth military's and Starfleet's version of it. It's set centuries in the future, and is a amalgamation of ranking systems from different alien cultures. So for me the comparison is flawed.

Having said that, I think the timing was just right. In terms of story telling, viewers put a lot of weight behind the 'captain' rank. In the episode itself, the way the story is told, gives us the feeling that things are getting way more serious and dangerous. Giving Sisko the rank of captain, which means a lot to fans, adds to the gravity of it.
AKA, shit is getting real.

 

[somebuddyX]

Nah. I was fine with it and I enjoyed it when it happened and I think the scene it plays in was great. We've seen a commander in charge of Starbase 74 and that was no slight. I also think Season 3 is where he really earned his promotion and was a great addition along with the Defiant and other little bits and pieces to propel DS9 into the second phase of it's life.

 

[The Wormhole]

I agree, except that in the Trek universe, starships always seem to have a captain-by-rank as commanding officer, large or small. Picard was a Captain (by rank) of a Galaxy class vessel (1000+ crew on board, possibly a lot more civilians), Ransom was a captain (by rank) of a Nova class vessel (crew complement 78).

DS9 tried to be more realistic about that. Though when they did, they either screwed it up, like with Lt. Piersall commanding the Nebula class Prometheus in Second Sight, or confused fans such as the case with Dax commanding the Defiant in Behind the Lines.

I might be wrong, but I could swear I remember Ron Moore and Ira Steven Behr saying it was thrown around in the writer's room back in the day that they toyed with the idea of making Sisko an admiral during the later seasons.

Behr wanted to make Sisko an Admiral in S6 but Berman overruled him saying "Star Trek is supposed to be about the Captains." When Behr tried to argue the matter further, Berman repeated the line and added "that was the argument you used a few years ago when you wanted Sisko to be promoted to Captain in the first place." So Sisko became Admiral Ross's aide instead.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A backwater where all he was expected to do was show the flag so Cardassia doesn't get the idea that they could reoccupy Bajor?

Between showing the flag to Cardassia and shepherding Bajor. I think a Captain's rank would be appropriate.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I would have been surprised if the writers did NOT consider making Sisko an admiral. I mean, he's a 4-star admiral's chief of staff and doing battle plans for a huge part of the front. Either of those roles should justify at least a 2-star admiral's rank. A better question is why they didn't do it. Perhaps

According to RDM, the writers did think about it. They decided to emphasize Sisko being more integrated into Bajoran culture, which would lead him out of Starfleet and make becoming a captain less likely. That's why we got the scene in which Sisko discusses the prophesies with Ross and insists that Bajor was his home.

 

[Mage]

Behr wanted to make Sisko an Admiral in S6 but Berman overruled him saying "Star Trek is supposed to be about the Captains." When Behr tried to argue the matter further, Berman repeated the line and added "that was the argument you used a few years ago when you wanted Sisko to be promoted to Captain in the first place." So Sisko became Admiral Ross's aide instead.

According to RDM, the writers did think about it. They decided to emphasize Sisko being more integrated into Bajoran culture, which would lead him out of Starfleet and make becoming a captain less likely. That's why we got the scene in which Sisko discusses the prophesies with Ross and insists that Bajor was his home.

I wonder if back then, the people in charge of the novels kept this in mind when Sisko came back from the Prophets and declined becoming an admiral and just live on Bajor with Kassidy and his daughter for a while.

 

[Skywalker]

Sisko should have been a captain already at the start of the show, then promoted to fleet captain during the war and probably ended the show as a commodore or even admiral.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I wonder if back then, the people in charge of the novels kept this in mind when Sisko came back from the Prophets and declined becoming an admiral and just live on Bajor with Kassidy and his daughter for a while.

Perhaps. It's hard to imagine a once "elevated being" returning to normal life, military or otherwise, without great difficulty. Arguable, a religious, non-Starfleet destiny seems like it would be very natural for the character, given not only the character being "the Emissary," but the constant framing of his life as a Moses figure right from the beginning.

 

[at Quark's]

^ Might be interesting to see a final conversation between Who Watches the Watchers-Picard and that-mission-you-gave-me-turned-me-into-a-god-Sisko ...

 

[kkt]

confused fans such as the case with Dax commanding the Defiant in Behind the Lines.

I don't know why fans would have been confused by Behind the Lines. The writers threw in a couple of lines to make it clear what was going on:

DAX: Are you two ever going to be finished?
NOG: Just a few more minutes, Commander.
O'BRIEN: That's Captain. It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as Captain.
NOG: You mean if I had to take command, I would be called Captain too?
O'BRIEN: Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything.

 

[kkt]

Sisko should have been a captain already at the start of the show, then promoted to fleet captain during the war and probably ended the show as a commodore or even admiral.

Yes, I'm sure both fans who remember that Pike was a fleet captain would enjoy that

 

[USS Firefly]

I think commander was good enough for Sisko. He was a depressed man ready to quit his job. And then transferred to a station almost nobody wants to command.

 

[DarKush]

I can accept him starting off not a captain, but I don't anything would've been wrong with making him a captain at the end of the first season or the start of the second.

 

[Citiprime]

Behr wanted to make Sisko an Admiral in S6 but Berman overruled him saying "Star Trek is supposed to be about the Captains." When Behr tried to argue the matter further, Berman repeated the line and added "that was the argument you used a few years ago when you wanted Sisko to be promoted to Captain in the first place." So Sisko became Admiral Ross's aide instead.

I'm trying to think how it might have made a difference, beyond just not having Barry Jenner in the Admiral Ross role.

I'm guessing they justify it by saying Sisko takes control of fleet movements and bases his office at Deep Space Nine, but does he keep his commands? Or does Worf or Dax get a promotion, or Kira get a field commission of commander, and take over control of Deep Space Nine and the Defiant for the rest of the war while Sisko is dealing with the bigger picture?

I'm not sure it changes much, since I have to believe they would have eventually done the same thing the TOS movies do with Kirk, and find ways for Admiral Kirk to assume command during important moments where he acts as the "captain" anyway.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't know why fans would have been confused by Behind the Lines. The writers threw in a couple of lines to make it clear what was going on:

There are people who don't understand that it only applies to officers assigned permanent command of a ship and think that anyone commanding the bridge, even the watch officer commanding the bridge in the Captain's absence can be addressed as "Captain." This extends to the Abrams movies where as soon as anyone takes command of the bridge, they are automatically addressed as Captain. Including one weird example, a deleted scene where Kirk himself addressed the watch officer on the bridge as "Captain."

 

[Michael]

If you had asked the topic question to me when I was young while it aired, I would have said, "Yes, he should have been captain from the start."

I’m kind of the opposite of this in that Sisko being a commander at the start of the show never really bothered me as a kid (he just always clearly was the main guy of the show, which mattered more to me), but now as an adult I do think it’s odd that they decided to not make the first black main character of a Star Trek show a captain like Kirk and Picard before him.

Ultimately it doesn’t bother me a great deal and I know it’s just a fictional rank that doesn’t represent how important the character is within the story, but it is a little odd.

 

[kkt]

I think commander was good enough for Sisko. He was a depressed man ready to quit his job. And then transferred to a station almost nobody wants to command.

That's life in the service, past present and future. Sometimes you get good duty, more often you just have to endure it.

 

[kkt]

There are people who don't understand that it only applies to officers assigned permanent command of a ship and think that anyone commanding the bridge, even the watch officer commanding the bridge in the Captain's absence can be addressed as "Captain." This extends to the Abrams movies where as soon as anyone takes command of the bridge, they are automatically addressed as Captain. Including one weird example, a deleted scene where Kirk himself addressed the watch officer on the bridge as "Captain."

Wow. I'm glad they deleted that line. Snide remarks about Abrams withheld. I guess language can change over time especially fine points about captain vs. acting CO.

 

[The Wormhole]

now as an adult I do think it’s odd that they decided to not make the first black main character of a Star Trek show a captain like Kirk and Picard before him.

A theory of mine is that in the earliest planning stages, Commander was meant to be Sisko's title rather than rank. In much the same way the commanding officer of a naval officer as addressed as "Captain" regardless their actual rank, a person in charge of a space station is addressed as "Commander" regardless of their actual rank or professional title. For a real world example, when Chris Hadfield was in charge of the ISS he was addressed as "Commander Hadfield" even though his actual rank in the Canadian military was Colonel. With that in mind, I suspect during the early stages everyone said "Commander Sisko" thinking it would be his title and not necessarily his rank. Then as the series developed, everyone just got so used to calling him Commander Sisko that eventually Commander ended up becoming his rank.

Just a theory of mine which may not be true at all, but it shows that Sisko's lower rank was a result of ignorance and miscommunication rather than malicious intent or anything. So I prefer to believe it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Whether or not Sisko should have been promoted earlier (after the Siege might have been a good time), getting a ship and getting a promotion would be two opportunities dramatically to mark the progress of the character that would be better not wasted by combining them. Sisko fought to get the Defiant out of mothballs, convincing Starfleet to take the Dominion threat seriously. The ship marks the point in which the character accepts his agency, taking on more responsibility in shaping the approach to the region of space. Then, just 26 episodes later, the growth of his vision and leadership is rewarded. He has led the station through complicated encounters with the Dominion. Presumably, he has been convincing the Federation, at least by example, to take the threat seriously, starting an arms building program. In the first season, Sisko barely seems like the lead: after the pilot, a lot of stories focused on Kira. That started to change with the Circle trilogy and Progress. However, Season 3 was when Sisko came front and center. He leads the Federation into the Gamma Quadrant to find the Founders. He leads the Defiant into battle to rescue Odo. He risks his life to protect Earth's past. In the narrative, the Defiant jump-starts Sisko's growth in a significant way, leading to his promotion. He literally grew the beard over those 26 episodes. All that was left to do was shave the head.