Saladin and Hermes

[MantaBase]

I thought about putting this in the TOS section, but it's not really TOS I guess 0 just TOS Universe.

I have been think of building a new model. I can get a PL 1000 Enterprise conversion kit to Hermes/Saladin class and have always liked the look since Star Fleet Battles.

Does anyone know what the difference between the classes actually is? I mean, they appear to be identical. Am I missing something?

 

[Avro Arrow]

IIRC, the only major difference in the book was that Saladin had photon torpedoes, and Hermes didn't. But this is just from memory, so take with a grain of salt or three.

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, pretty much. The Hermes is a trimmed down Saladin for use in a scouting role and not an escort/combat role. There might be some small differences in their crew lists, but I'd have to look that up.

 

[MantaBase]

Yeah, pretty much. The Hermes is a trimmed down Saladin for use in a scouting role and not an escort/combat role. There might be some small differences in their crew lists, but I'd have to look that up.

So they *look* the same right?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

IIRC, the only major difference in the book was that Saladin had photon torpedoes, and Hermes didn't. But this is just from memory, so take with a grain of salt or three.

Also: The destroyer has 3 phaser banks of two each. The scout has one phaser bank of two each. The scout is slightly lighter and has five fewer crewmen.

Edit - This is in the FJ Tech Manual.

 

[Sgt_G]

Within the game Star Fleet Battles, the DD and SC are the same except:

DD has 4x Photons and three pairs of Phasers firing in arcs 2x Forward Half, 2x Left Side, and 2x Right Side. The DD has one more crew-unit (ten crewmen) than the SC has.

The SC replaces all four Photons AND the left/right Phasers with eight heavy Scout Sensors, making it arguably the best electronics warfare ship in the game, bar none.

 

[MantaBase]

IIRC, the only major difference in the book was that Saladin had photon torpedoes, and Hermes didn't. But this is just from memory, so take with a grain of salt or three.

Also: The destroyer has 3 phaser banks of two each. The scout has one phaser bank of two each. The scout is slightly lighter and has five fewer crewmen.

Edit - This is in the FJ Tech Manual.

Thanks! So basically I can get the conversion kit and decide then which class to build (by name of ship).

 

[MantaBase]

Within the game Star Fleet Battles, the DD and SC are the same except:

DD has 4x Photons and three pairs of Phasers firing in arcs 2x Forward Half, 2x Left Side, and 2x Right Side. The DD has one more crew-unit (ten crewmen) than the SC has.

The SC replaces all four Photons AND the left/right Phasers with eight heavy Scout Sensors, making it arguably the best electronics warfare ship in the game, bar none.

Thanks. I actually have all my old SFB stuff on the shelf but didn't pull it out.

Thanks you guys. I think I will order the part tomorrow - Since the kit says for both classes.

 

[sojourner]

God I miss having the friends and time to spend 6 hours playing one turn of a massive fleet battle.

 

[Sgt_G]

Sojourner: Look into the game Federation Commander. It's kind of sort of "SFB Lite" but with enough changes that it's its own game.

 

[MantaBase]

God I miss having the friends and time to spend 6 hours playing one turn of a massive fleet battle.

Lol - on paper it looks like each turn should take 15 minutes. In practice it a grueling yet exciting task. 5 minutes of SFB time could take a week.

 

[MantaBase]

Sojourner: Look into the game Federation Commander. It's kind of sort of "SFB Lite" but with enough changes that it's its own game.

I have thought about this - does it have implulses?

 

[Sgt_G]

As in movement impulses? Yes. But it only has eight impulses, each with four sub-pulses. You move on sub-pulses, but can only fire at the end of each full impulse.

Download the free PDF rulebook: "Federation Commander - First Missions" at
http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/FCFirstMissions.pdf

That's the very stripped-down basic rules. The full rulebook is also available as PDF for only $15 US.

 

[Forbin]

1/1000 Hermes:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/scout.html

1/1000 Saladin:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/shaitan.html

1/350 Saladin upgrade:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/azrael.html

 

[MantaBase]

1/1000 Hermes:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/scout.html

1/1000 Saladin:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/shaitan.html

1/350 Saladin upgrade:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/azrael.html

Man those are nicely done. Now I wish I could buy rather than build - lol. I will be hard pressed to build as well as that.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

CDR6 just posted a fascinating take on the destroyer over in Fan Art.

 

[Timo]

I must say I'm not fond of the idea of giving these ships a shuttlebay. The lack thereof is a major defining factor of the design, after all - it loses all character when gaining a bay, or two even.

Real destroyers (frigates, whatever you call 'em poor man's capital ships) of the floating sort generally come in two distinct lines, too: helicopters or no helicopters. And you can tell from the silhouette! Giving a Saladin a bay should be done the Kelvin style, by making it look as if it might hurt a lot. Just like in the real world.

IMHO, of course.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MantaBase]

I must say I'm not fond of the idea of giving these ships a shuttlebay. The lack thereof is a major defining factor of the design, after all - it loses all character when gaining a bay, or two even.

Real destroyers (frigates, whatever you call 'em poor man's capital ships) of the floating sort generally come in two distinct lines, too: helicopters or no helicopters. And you can tell from the silhouette! Giving a Saladin a bay should be done the Kelvin style, by making it look as if it might hurt a lot. Just like in the real world.

IMHO, of course.

Timo Saloniemi

Well, I just always assumed they had at least 2 shuttles and the CC's like Enterprise had more like 10. Otherwise you are stuck with using transporters only - not something that seems terribly safe or always practical. There are some advanced designs that have what looks like a 10 shuttle bay - and with those - yes, it looks like it hurts.

From this thread: http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/azrael.html

 

[Unicron]

I'm kind of mixed, in that I don't mind most of the scout/destroyer designs having their own small craft but I also see Timo's point. I can see where their mission profile would fit with having no such capacity, while it would also be practical in some ways. If you can't use your transporter when you really need and you have no small craft, then you're rather screwed.

 

[Timo]

I guess I'm a sucker for things not becoming practical just because it would be nice for them to be. TOS got mileage out of limitations, both intuitive (esp. human weaknesses) and fictional (esp. transporter rules).

That said, Saladin and Hermes always looked like exercises in excess. Destroyers and cruisers in naval precedent might look like scale models of each other, but FJ rather fails to establish a scale difference (I'm not really complaining - the modular approach is cool in its own right) while having little opportunity to indicate a capabilities difference...

...Except through calling one design a cruiser and another a destroyer. Lack of capabilities in the latter could be implicit.

Fandom came up with a funny range of "destroyer" designs ultimately, including massive FASA kitbashes far outbulking Kirk's ship, or Diane Duane's eclipse-scale oddities. Few designs tried to portray destroyers as small, humble and "affordable"/expendable fighting vessels, despite the Spaceflight Chronology Portsmith precedent. Since canon is silent on the issue of Starfleet destroyers, there's nothing wrong with the word having gained a new meaning in the future, though. And I dig the FJ approach, although I don't want a Starfleet limited to just the designs shown in the Manual, or just to that school of thought. Quite possibly FJ himself didn't, either, listing lots of names even when showing just a few schematics. Saladin might simply be the cream of the cream for destroyers...

Timo Saloniemi