Rick Berman's an ***hole

[Guartho]

As a self-respecting white man I have to agree except that I'm rather proud of myself for the fact that as a kid I didn't notice that all the "violent savages" were black.

I don't think I saw it again until I was an adult. This may have even been you Brutal Strudel, but someone here pointed out "The Enterprise goes to what is basically planet Africa, and the first thing the natives do is kidnap the white woman."

 

[CoveTom]

I was thinking of this quote:

Space must have seemed a whole lot bigger back then. It's not surprising they had to bend the rules a little. They were a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers. Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today.

Same deal, no?

That line never really bothered me. In fact, I thought it was very much in character for our 24th century pals, who are just a tad on the arrogant side and think they are much more enlightened than their predecessors. The irony, of course, is that Picard, Sisko and Janeway are just as quick to break the Prime Directive when they think it's right, and Sisko and Janeway at least are just as quick to "pull their phasers."

 

[Kegg]

That line never really bothered me. In fact, I thought it was very much in character for our 24th century pals, who are just a tad on the arrogant side and think they are much more enlightened than their predecessors.

Exactly. Which brings it all back to my assertion it was a bit like B&B's view of TOS in my wild guesstimation: just a trifle, a mite, condescending, but not exactly outright dislike.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

My problem with B&B's condescension toward TOS (I'd go so far as to call it disdain, actually--I'll never believe that either of them liked TOS, just that they learned to be diplomatic about their dislike) is that their own ideas for Trek done better were almost invariably Trek done worse. I can tolerate--even get a masochistic kick from--the vituperative attacks on Trek by SF luminaries (Disch, Ellison, Lem) because I know they are capable of producing and appreciating a better class of SF themselves. Even Nick Meyer, for all of his bluster about not being a fan, just "re-discovered" one of Trek's central motifs, Hornblower in Space* and J.J. Abrams, for all of his ambivalence about TOS being boring and talky, gave us a movie that, while not very cerebral, at least connected with the emotional core of Trek (I still tear up when Sarek admits to Spock that he loved Amanda). B&B, by contrast, made bland Trek thinking that made for adult Trek. Instead, we got stories that were increasingly talky, boring and stupid.

*TNG, in all fairness, did give us a nod to Aubrey in Space with Picard's lifted catchphrase "Make it so." Now if he'd only ever said "Light along the toasted cheese."

 

[CoveTom]

Exactly. Which brings it all back to my assertion it was a bit like B&B's view of TOS in my wild guesstimation: just a trifle, a mite, condescending, but not exactly outright dislike.

This I think I'd agree with. I don't think Berman -disliked- TOS per se, nor do I think he wanted to bash it. And I don't think he had any problem integrating certain elements of it into the modern shows on occasion. But I also think he probably views his Trek as a more sophisticated Trek and looks upon TOS much as we'd look upon a 50's sci-fi B movie: sometimes fun, but not real sophisticated.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Rick Berman's an asshole

During the The Next Generation episode "Sarek", the writers were not allowed to use the name "Spock" when talking about Sarek's son.

It was a deliberate big tease. They were discussing Picard attending the wedding of Sarek's son. We knew that Sybok was dead but, just in case someone came up with a great Spock story one day, where he needed to have never been married, it was a convenient tease not to name which son got married in the "Sarek" episode script. Then the fans could start asking, as they indeed did, "Did Sarek have any other children?", "Did Perrin and Sarek have children?", "If Spock got married, was it to Saavik?", etc, etc.

And Picard does utter Spock's name, when mindmelding with Sarek.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Rick Berman's an asshole

D.C. Fontana's idea for the second season opener was a story called "Return to Forever," which would have involved the Guardian and a movie-era Spock. Obviously, Fontana didn't stay with the series that long, and the WGA strike would have made trying to line Nimoy up (i.e., a script he was happy with) problematical.

Mmmmmm. I thought this was a Tracy Torme project.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Rick Berman's an asshole

D.C. Fontana's idea for the second season opener was a story called "Return to Forever," which would have involved the Guardian and a movie-era Spock. Obviously, Fontana didn't stay with the series that long, and the WGA strike would have made trying to line Nimoy up (i.e., a script he was happy with) problematical.

Mmmmmm. I thought this was a Tracy Torme project.

You're coming in late, Ian. It's already been pointed out above that I conflated Torme's "Return to Forever" with another story of Fontana's.