Recycling starship models

[t_smitts]

Since the original series, Star Trek's reused ship models (and later CG models) as a simple way of saving time and money, particularly when it comes to ships employed by the alien-of-the-week.

Sometimes they could do a pretty good job of keeping people from realizing they seen this ship before, if enough time has passed, you give it a new paint ship, and add (or remove) some bits and pieces.

One nice example of a recycled model, I thought was the Bok'Nor from "The Maquis", which was the Merchantman originally, and a few other ships in between (and after).

Obviously the Merchantman was built years before the Cardassians had been introduced, so it's totally coincidental, but it shares the same basic "stringray" look that the Galor class (and later Hideki class) had, while having the stubbier, boxier look that's consistent with a freighter.

In retrospect, I'm surprised they didn't restore the model to this design (they'd modified it to be a Vidiian ship a year later) to use as the Groumall in "Return to Grace".

The CG Romulan drone ship was another good reuse. It had been a good six years since we saw it as a not-terribly-memorable alien ship in "The Fight". A little paint and some added detail and it worked fine.

A not so great example was the Tellarite ship. There wasn't anything wrong with the look, except that we'd seen it as the Xindi-Arboreal ship just the previous year. They should've used a design that hadn't been used so recently, in my opinion.

Any other reuses you think worked or didn't work? (Actually, if you noticed them, one could say they didn't work).

 

[E-DUB]

There was a ship from a "Voyager" episode, "Favorite Son", I think, where they used a different ship only upside down and backwards. Also, the alien ship from the ENT episode with Casey Biggs where the ship was 1/2 a Romulan Warbird.

 

[Timo]

The models recycled for Bajoran or Cardassian freighters in DS9 kept the triangular theme introduced in "Ensign Ro". Furthermore, the hexagonal plate (warp engine?) atop the "Ensign Ro" ship was installed in duplicate in the Wadi ship of "Move Along Home"; after this episode, evidence mounted that this ship type was commonly found in the hands of Bajorans or other Cardassian victims/allies. It also had the dorsal ring structure we see in the Hideki design...

...So in the end, we had a family of triangle-hulled ships that probably originated in either Cardassia or Bajor and was very typical of this region of space and the DS9 collection of "usual suspects". The family had intriguing details to tie together the designs, but in reality there was no common origin to the models - it was just clever modifying that did the trick.

Another "family" I liked a lot was the Talarian one, with the two Star Wars star destroyer kitbashes and their later modifications. That one eventually extended to other players as well, again in DS9; we could speculate that the Talarians sell this technology around the Alpha Quadrant, or that they bought it when they needed firepower for the war with the Federation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[t_smitts]

There was a ship from a "Voyager" episode, "Favorite Son", I think, where they used a different ship only upside down and backwards. Also, the alien ship from the ENT episode with Casey Biggs where the ship was 1/2 a Romulan Warbird.

The "Favorite Son" ship was a modification of the Romulan scoutship from "The Defector". I remember actually recognizing it as such at the time. Perhaps they should avoid recycling ship designs that originate from the significant powers (Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, and of course Federation), which, to be fair, they did manage to avoid most of the time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

VOY: "Nightingale" was a poor recycling of Chakotay's ship, which was a slightly modified (to look bigger) version of a Starfleet fighter from DS9: "For The Uniform"

For poorly-reused sets, the ship from "Gambit" was the generic TNG Starfleet guest ship bridge (Hathaway, Enterprise-C, Bozeman etc) and still had those very distinctive TOS-style computer consoles along the rear wall.

 

[t_smitts]

VOY: "Nightingale" was a poor recycling of Chakotay's ship, which was a slightly modified (to look bigger) version of a Starfleet fighter from DS9: "For The Uniform"

Actually that was a reuse of the CG Federation attack fighter (which HAD been used in earlier episodes as Maquis fighters, but not Chakotay's).

They still shouldn't have used it, as the Fed look is just too distinctive, (I noticed it right away too), but that was a pretty crappy episode altogether, which is a shame, considering what a promising premise it had.

 

[The Wormhole]

For poorly-reused sets, the ship from "Gambit" was the generic TNG Starfleet guest ship bridge (Hathaway, Enterprise-C, Bozeman etc) and still had those very distinctive TOS-style computer consoles along the rear wall.

Which was itself the Enterprise's bridge for the TOS movies. Well, TMP through to TVH, anyway.

 

[Belz...]

Well I'd rather they didn't reuse models when it doesn't make too much sense.

The Klingon Bird-of-Prey and cruisers from the TOS era in TNG, for example, are hard for my SOD (suspension of disbelief). As are the Excelcior and Miranda class in the same series.

I also detest the kitbashes like the Yeager and Nebula. It's just using components from one class and shuffling them into something horrible. The only kitbash I like is the Constellation class.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re-using models is unavoidable. Back in the 1980s and 1990s when they relied on physical models, it was damn expensive to build them and a pain in the ass to film them. Once one was built, and you had enough footage of it to re-use as stock shots, episodes became cheaper and easier. Yes, CGI made things even cheaper and easier, even to make new ships. But, some time still goes into making new CG meshes, and if that's time that can be better spent elsewhere, it's going to be spent elsewhere. Indeed, that's the kind of mentality that resulted in a D-7/K't'inga being used on Enterprise.

 

[Galactic Alignment]

I also detest the kitbashes like the Yeager and Nebula. It's just using components from one class and shuffling them into something horrible. The only kitbash I like is the Constellation class.

I've never minded the Nebula, as it just looks like another ship from the Galaxy design lineage/family (built by the same same contractor?). Some of the more kitbashy designs like the Yeager and Enterprise-B I do regard as utterly terrible too.

The Constellation is one of my favourite Trek ship designs, incidentally. Looks like a suitably old and worn out starship from past decades by the time we saw it in TNG.

 

[E-DUB]

Although I understand the concerns about scaling (cobbling together parts from different sized ship models), I always thought the Centaur didn't look bad.

 

[bullethead]

Re-using models is unavoidable. Back in the 1980s and 1990s when they relied on physical models, it was dman expensive to build them and a pain in the ass to film them. Once one was built, and you had enough footage of it to re-use as stock shots, episodes became cheaper and easier. Yes, CGI made things even cheaper and easier, even to make new ships. But, some time still goes into making new CG meshes, and if that's time that can be better spent elsewhere, it's going to be spent elsewhere. Indeed, that's the kind of mentality that resulted in a D-7/K't'inga being used on Enterprise.

Which was why it never made sense to me that no one at the TNG art department said "let's make molds of these new ships so we can use them later" after making the BOBW kitbashes. They spent all that time and money to make them, just for the designs to show up in one episode and never again outside of TrekLit/comics.

 

[Belz...]

I've never minded the Nebula, as it just looks like another ship from the Galaxy design lineage/family (built by the same same contractor?). Some of the more kitbashy designs like the Yeager and Enterprise-B I do regard as utterly terrible too.

Careful, now. The Enterprise-B isn't a kitbash. It's a modified version of an existing model, like the Lantree.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^The only reason the Lantree was any different from the Reliant was because they couldn't get the lights in the torpedo launcher working.

 

[SchwEnt]

Sometimes the re-use of models did more harm than good for my viewing pleasure. Many times, I would have preferred that a ship simply not make an appearance onscreen at all.

Never saw the Gorn ship. Unseen Klingon ships in "Errand of Mercy" and "Friday's Child". Antares was unseen in "Charlie X". The Horatio (only debris) in "Conspiracy" and the Drake in "The Arsenal of Freedom" wasn't seen. I don't really mind and it did little to hurt the eps.

I wouldn't mind this approach rather than a forced recycling of a ship I'd remember as something else entirely.

 

[Belz...]

Right. Those Miranda class ships in DS9 are pretty damn old.

 

[DS9forever]

Not a starship I know, but Enterprise reused the Cardassian space station model from "Tacking Into the Wind" as the station in "Bounty".

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Klingon Bird-of-Prey and cruisers from the TOS era in TNG, for example, are hard for my SOD (suspension of disbelief). As are the Excelcior and Miranda class in the same series.

I also detest the kitbashes like the Yeager and Nebula. It's just using components from one class and shuffling them into something horrible. The only kitbash I like is the Constellation class.

Regarding the Excelsior, I always thought there was some poetic justice in jumping 80 years past the TOS movies to see the big, bad replacement ship being used as an undersized gofer.

The Nebula is to the Galaxy what the Reliant was to the Constitution refit.

The Klingon BOP, OTOH...way overexposed, and excusing the scaling issues by claiming that the exact same design was shared by two different sizes of ship was a big SOD issue. The original BOP was supposed to be a small-scale ship that couldn't have given the Enterprise a fight under normal conditions, but this ship sure caused trouble way out of proportion with that concept.

Never saw the Gorn ship. Unseen Klingon ships in "Errand of Mercy" and "Friday's Child". Antares was unseen in "Charlie X".

All changed in remastered TOS, FWIW.

 

[SchwEnt]

^^^ I know. But I was going for old TOS.

Even then, when the DY-100 came back as the freighter Woden... urgh. Instantly took me out of the moment. I'd rather have heard about M-5 destroying it off-screen than seeing the return of Khan's sleeper ship passed off as something else.

Sometimes it's better to not recycle the models.

 

[t_smitts]

I also detest the kitbashes like the Yeager and Nebula. It's just using components from one class and shuffling them into something horrible. The only kitbash I like is the Constellation class.

I've never minded the Nebula, as it just looks like another ship from the Galaxy design lineage/family (built by the same same contractor?). Some of the more kitbashy designs like the Yeager and Enterprise-B I do regard as utterly terrible too.

The Constellation is one of my favourite Trek ship designs, incidentally. Looks like a suitably old and worn out starship from past decades by the time we saw it in TNG.

I never saw the Nebula as a kitbash either. The "B" certainly wasn't either.

The Yeager's kind of a mess. On top of that, both it and the Yeager featured in First Contact have registries in the 6xxxx range, since the kitbash one was just a rearrange of the decals for Voyager's registry (kind of like they did for the Constellation).

Technically, the New Orleans WAS a kitbash, but like the Centaur, it's a rare exception of being a nice-looking one.

Right. Those Miranda class ships in DS9 are pretty damn old.

I've had this conversation before. While the class itself may have existed since the 2260's, those particular Mirandas probably are no more than 20 or so years old.

The Klingon Bird-of-Prey and cruisers from the TOS era in TNG, for example, are hard for my SOD (suspension of disbelief). As are the Excelcior and Miranda class in the same series.

I also detest the kitbashes like the Yeager and Nebula. It's just using components from one class and shuffling them into something horrible. The only kitbash I like is the Constellation class.

Regarding the Excelsior, I always thought there was some poetic justice in jumping 80 years past the TOS movies to see the big, bad replacement ship being used as an undersized gofer.

Actually, the Excelsior seems to have been one of the more successful and prolific starship designs. Yes, the glory days of ships like the Excelsior herself and the Enterprise-B may be long past, but there still seems to be wave after wave of these ships. They certainly haven't been replaced by either the Ambassador or Galaxy in the same way that the Excelsior probably replaced the Constitution.

Most likely, the reason is they can handle a load of different mission profiles. Yes, they seemed to be the ship of choice for ferrying admirals and other VIP's around, but we've seen dozens of these ships in just about every battle. They likely would do well at border patrolling like the Malinche probably was initially doing. They likely would do well at hunting down smaller troublemaking ships like pirates and Maquis. ("For the Uniform" notwithstanding). They'd probably work really well as a training vessel for cadets too. (I always assumed the Republic, given its age, was an Excelsior).

The Nebula is to the Galaxy what the Reliant was to the Constitution refit.

The Klingon BOP, OTOH...way overexposed, and excusing the scaling issues by claiming that the exact same design was shared by two different sizes of ship was a big SOD issue. The original BOP was supposed to be a small-scale ship that couldn't have given the Enterprise a fight under normal conditions, but this ship sure caused trouble way out of proportion with that concept.

I never had a problem with the larger BOP. It's become such a staple of Klingon culture that it's hard to imagine it not being around now.

Never saw the Gorn ship. Unseen Klingon ships in "Errand of Mercy" and "Friday's Child". Antares was unseen in "Charlie X".

All changed in remastered TOS, FWIW.

^^^ I know. But I was going for old TOS.

Even then, when the DY-100 came back as the freighter Woden... urgh. Instantly took me out of the moment. I'd rather have heard about M-5 destroying it off-screen than seeing the return of Khan's sleeper ship passed off as something else.

Sometimes it's better to not recycle the models.

Well, fortunately, remastering fixed most of those (not to mention that ridiculous scale difference in "The Doomsday Machine"). That's why I really hope DS9 gets some of the same treatment.