Question about Trip's death

[erastus25]

To preface, I've only see a few episodes of Enterprise. I watched Broken Bow and the first couple after it and quickly lost interest. I watched some more "historic episodes" later (i.e. the Klingon foreheads). Recently I was watching The Pegasus so I decided to check out TATV. I know from experience on this board that most people hate the episode and the way in which Trip dies. While I agree that the episode does not fit well with The Pegasus and it was dumb to try to cram it into a TNG episode, I don't understand why everyone hates Trip's death. I thought he died nobly saving his captain and a young Andorian girl and also helped to guarantee that the founding of the Federation was accomplished smoothly. From what I've seen of the character, the action was very much in line with his personality and made total sense. This was certainly a far better death than some characters - Tasha Yar springs to mind.
Edit to make my question more clear: So why is the general consensus that Trip's death wasn't a good way for the character to go?

 

[Captain X]

Because everything he did was completely out of character, and the manner in which he died was completely contrived. Then, just to add insult to injury, none of his friends and crewmates for the last ten years really seemed to care all that much.

 

[commodore64]

Cool av, erastus! Is it consensus? I don't think so. I believe much like you did that Trip died for a noble cause.

 

[Trekwatcher]

Cool av, erastus! Is it consensus? I don't think so. I believe much like you did that Trip died for a noble cause.

Well, the cause was certainly noble, but the fact that they killed him off at all, plus, IMHO, the precipitous manner in which it was handled, was very unsatisfying for the fans.

 

[erastus25]

Because everything he did was completely out of character, and the manner in which he died was completely contrived. Then, just to add insult to injury, none of his friends and crewmates for the last ten years really seemed to care all that much.

How was it out of character? That's the part I'm most confused about. And Archer and T'Pol definitely seemed to care during that scene in his quarters. I will agree that it was contrived, but it sent a message of honor, loyalty and nobility and I forgave it as a result. I mean, the deaths of Spock and Dax were contrived as well, but those are forgiven.

 

[erastus25]

Cool av, erastus!

Thanks! I relocated to Boston a couple years ago but it's still nice to find other Oregonians out there!

 

[JiNX-01]

Because everything he did was completely out of character, and the manner in which he died was completely contrived. Then, just to add insult to injury, none of his friends and crewmates for the last ten years really seemed to care all that much.

How was it out of character? That's the part I'm most confused about. And Archer and T'Pol definitely seemed to care during that scene in his quarters. I will agree that it was contrived, but it sent a message of honor, loyalty and nobility and I forgave it as a result. I mean, the deaths of Spock and Dax were contrived as well, but those are forgiven.

I agree that Trip was loyal, noble and self-sacrificing.

However:

He comes unraveled when Archer is threatened. Yet in Zero Hour when the ship and crew are in grave danger he stays at station and completes the destruction of the sphere. In Terra Prime (airing just before TATV), he kept his cool when a bad guy put a phaser to T'Pol's head (as she stood beside their daughter's crib. There were plenty of occasions when Archer (in fact the whole ship) was threatened. And Trip NEVER PANICKED.

He was chief engineer on the NX-01. He didn't get that job by being an idiot. This is the guy who faked a warp core breach (Shockwave II); repaired alien technology (Unexpected, "Precious" Cargo); figured out a way to compress a plasma stream so the ship could travel at warp 5 for longer periods (Similitude) and adapted alien technology to work on Enterprise (Damage.

And yet we're supposed to believe that his best plan for saving Archer was to blow himself up.

As for Archer and T'Pol grieving for Trip in his quarters. She says that Trip said she'd miss her mother less as years pass (she doesn't); Archer spouts platitudes. Their conversation in fact, has practically nothing to do with actually grieving Trip. No real sense of loss. No missing him. No sense of shock. NO EMOTIONAL PAYOFF AT ALL.

And don't get me started on the bitching about nosebleed seats...

 

[Captain X]

How was it out of character?

JiNX goes into more detail, but basically it comes down to a guy who's always kept his cool suddenly acting like he has a horrible case of ADHD, and instead of leading the aliens of the week to someplace where he could gain an upper hand, he blew himself up. The same guy who in the epsode right before this was basically presented as another MacGyver

And Archer and T'Pol definitely seemed to care during that scene in his quarters.

T'Pol packed his stuff up and Archer bitched some more about his speech that we never heard. Malcolm bitched about being in the nosebleed section and everyone else was all smiles. Nothing about a memorial, nothing about "it's too bad Trip isn't here to see this", nothing.

I will agree that it was contrived, but it sent a message of honor, loyalty and nobility and I forgave it as a result. I mean, the deaths of Spock and Dax were contrived as well, but those are forgiven.

As far as them being forgiven, it depends on who you talk to, because I'll still give them crap about it, including Yar's contrived death too. Star Trek just tends not to handle it well. But at least Spock, Yar, and Dax all got a funeral. Technically we didn't see Dax's, but we saw Sisko mourning her loss over her flag-draped casket.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I always liked the episode and the death scene. I actually thought it was in character. While I think the idea of making TATV at all was odd, now that its done, it wasn't too bad. I even wrote a thread called "good things about TATV" a while back.

All I wanted to know was how those villains managed to catch up to Enterprise when they had a slower ship! LOL major hole there.

But I loved Trip's final words to the villains.

What I really like is Trip's REAL last scene with Riker.

That scene made it worth while. I say that from both a fan's POV and the POV of someone who knows TV production. The episode is a rush job. The episode was also the final ep of all of Trek for years. Writing Trek scripts at all is never easy, because there have been sooo many stories, that filling a blank page is very hard, let alone filling on that can only be an hour, that has to be done on budget, and that has to encapsulate all of Trek as it was going off the air. Many fans were disappointed with the result, to be sure, but I think what they have to recognize was the attempt to do something..to fill that page with one thing they COULD on budget: an examination of character. The death itself might be trite and meaningless, but the friendship and between Archer and Trip WAS the essence of this series, Trip himself was the essence of the series, and by making him die and giving him that final scene, they were trying to send off Star Trek in a way that said something about the PEOPLE in it, not all the crazy sci fi stuff. I think they gave it a good shot, maybe not the best, but the decided to use Trip to examine the human condition. That's all we really could have asked for.

 

[angie]

It is the consensus of those with a avid love of the character. I thought it noble and since I thought my fav character was going to die that way and was ok with it I didn't get the furor.

 

[Michael]

HATED the way they let him die. JiNX and Captain X have elaborated why they think so far better than I ever could. Thanks, guys.

 

[Defcon]

Trip was the character I liked the least on Enterprise, and even I think the way they killed him off was just awful. It just doesn't made sense. Why should he think blowing himself up would be his only chance to save his captain/ship when they have been through worse in the past?

 

[JiNX-01]

The episode was also the final ep of all of Trek for years. Writing Trek scripts at all is never easy, because there have been sooo many stories, that filling a blank page is very hard, let alone filling on that can only be an hour, that has to be done on budget, and that has to encapsulate all of Trek as it was going off the air.

Terra Prime did an infinitely better job. Archer actually gives a decent speech that helps save the alliance that will become the Federation. And in the last minutes of the episode Trip tells T'Pol that a cloning error cause their baby's death and that if a human and a Vulcan wanted to have a child it would probably be all right. A lovely foreshadowing of the birth of Spock.

 

[commodore64]

Erastus, I just had a cousin who moved from Boston to Portland. I guess it was an East/West Coast exchange. The weather sounds about the same these days.

Onto Terra Prime - Jinx, you're nice, but I thought it was one of the most ridiculous plots from Enterprise.

1. Baby was created to ...? (No reason)
2. No one remembered Lorian. Dumb. You think T'Pol or Trip would; he's their son after all.
3. Trip and T'Pol didn't go under cover. *Whoah* big surprise they were captured. Made them look stupid.
4. Angry, racist (played by Peter Weller) had absolutely no redeeming quality. Your bad guy should always be semi-understandable (even Khan had an upside). I love Peter Weller, but he got the shaft in this episode.
5. Trip threw a fit and seemed to accuse T'Pol of abortion. That seemed mightily out of character to me.
6. The aliens didn't really band together to overthrow Terra Prime, kinda lessening the impact of them banding together. And why isn't anyone screaming Super!Archer here? They seemed to be motivated by his words into action, not necessarily the events themselves.
7. Archer's "clap louder" was the dorkiest thing he's ever done - way dorkier than nearly making a diplomacy mistake over a dog - and out of character. And what a dumb moment for Trip to not even politely clap. Again, please give these characters some dignity.
8. Travis' love interest story was of no interest. The show was almost over, why bother trying to develop a character we'd never see again?
9. Wreckless fanwank mention. "Oh, if we mention Colonel Green, we're TOS." No.
10. Geez Archer stands in front of some glass. I wonder if it's going to crack? <-- Did anyone really wonder?
11. Who is responsible for this evil of grabbing DNA? Kelby who we all hate? No. Ensign Noname. Noname had no impact.

Yes, Archer's speech was great. I think that speech and the less than the one minute of T'Pol consoling Trip made the episode. I would guess that's about five minutes of screen time from 120 minutes. Not worth it.

This plot has more holes than a police station has donuts.

 

[Lindley]

The best thing about These Are the Voyages is the second level of reality imposed on the entire sequence of events by The Good That Men Do.

In other words, what I liked best was that it didn't really happen that way.

 

[angie]

To me that book only did injustice to the series and all the characters.

 

[Lady Conqueror]

My reason is fairly simple. Trip was my fave character and I didn't want to see him die, in any way, shape or form. Badly or heroically makes not much difference in my mind - he's still dead and I'm still depressed about it - what a nice feeling I have with the end of series now

 

[SFRabid]

To me it signaled the death of the series. That is why I did not like it.

I also don't care for the book. It creates as many problems as it solves.

 

[witchie]

My reason is fairly simple. Trip was my fave character and I didn't want to see him die, in any way, shape or form. Badly or heroically makes not much difference in my mind - he's still dead and I'm still depressed about it - what a nice feeling I have with the end of series now

Exactly.

 

[erastus25]

Erastus, I just had a cousin who moved from Boston to Portland. I guess it was an East/West Coast exchange. The weather sounds about the same these days.

The weather in Boston has been quite nice the last couple days - unlike the Portland area apparently. I hope your cousin enjoys Portland, it's a wonderful city and I miss it regularly.

My reason is fairly simple. Trip was my fave character and I didn't want to see him die, in any way, shape or form. Badly or heroically makes not much difference in my mind - he's still dead and I'm still depressed about it - what a nice feeling I have with the end of series now

Exactly.

I almost wonder if that's part of the reason for the complaints. We can argue incessantly about whether or not he panicked, and if the characters mourned off screen for him etc... But the bottom line is that many people seem to be upset because the death was unexpected and it hurt emotionally to see a favorite character die. This sounds much closer to the response most would have to a family member dying unexpectedly than the responses to Spock or Yar or Dax dying. Perhaps, the fact that everyone is so upset is actually a sign that they got it right this time.