Nero's mysterious planet.

[T'Girl]

NERO: (on viewscreen) Hi Christopher, I'm Nero.

PIKE: You've declared war against the Federation. Withdraw.
I'll agree to arrange a conference with Romulan leadership at a neutral location.

NERO: I do not speak for the Empire. We stand apart

Romulan?

When did Nero say Romulan? In the previous encounter between the Narada and the Kelvin no one said Romulan or Romulus.

In the episode "Balance of Terror," no one even know what a Romulan ship looks like, so it can't be the Narada's appearance.

In the episode "Who Watches the Watchers," there is a non-Vulcan, non-Romulan race that shares a appearance with both of them, so there are a minimum of three race that Nero (or previously Ayel) could be, given how many races look just like Humans, there could be dozens of races who look like Nero.

When young Lt. Kirk runs onto the bridge he spoke of the Romulan ship that attack the Kelvin, again where does he get Romulan? Pike stated that he could arrange a conference with Romulan leadership, like it wasn't too hard to do.

Are all big ships automatically Romulan. Years later when Kirk once again penetrates V'ger's cloud, will his initial reaction is that there is a Romulan ship inside. Decades later when Q introduces Picard to a Borg cube for the first time, will Picard at first assume it a Romulan cube?

If Pike wasn't sure, he easily could have said "your world's."

Why did Pike say Romulan?

 

[Devon]

NERO: (on viewscreen) Hi Christopher, I'm Nero.

PIKE: You've declared war against the Federation. Withdraw.
I'll agree to arrange a conference with Romulan leadership at a neutral location.

NERO: I do not speak for the Empire. We stand apart

Romulan?

When did Nero say Romulan? In the previous encounter between the Narada and the Kelvin no one said Romulan or Romulus.

In the episode "Balance of Terror," no one even know what a Romulan ship looks like, so it can't be the Narada's appearance.

In the episode "Who Watches the Watchers," there is a non-Vulcan, non-Romulan race that shares a appearance with both of them, so there are a minimum of three race that Nero (or previously Ayel) could be, given how many races look just like Humans, there could be dozens of races who look like Nero.

When young Lt. Kirk runs onto the bridge he spoke of the Romulan ship that attack the Kelvin, again where does he get Romulan? Pike stated that he could arrange a conference with Romulan leadership, like it wasn't too hard to do.

Are all big ships automatically Romulan. Years later when Kirk once again penetrates V'ger's cloud, will his initial reaction is that there is a Romulan ship inside. Decades later when Q introduces Picard to a Borg cube for the first time, will Picard at first assume it a Romulan cube?

If Pike wasn't sure, he easily could have said "your world's."

Why did Pike say Romulan?

Pike did the Kelvin's dissertation. They had known it was Romulans who attacked the Kelvin for a long time. I really don't know why Pike wouldn't know it was Romulans.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It should be obvious that in this timeline, after the divergence point in 2233, the Federation and the Romulans had dealings prior to TOS's "Balance of Terror".

If we're gonna speculate (not that any amount of specualtion will appease the OCD haters and trolls ), it's possible data on the Narada collected by Kelvin's sensors pointed toward Romulan technology, after later inspection by Starfleet (there's even an ever-so-slight resemblance between Narada and the Romulan drone ships from Enterprise, both inside -particularly the control consoles- and out). Contact with the Romulans was probably made in the aftermath of the Kelvin's destruction.

It's also likely the Vulcans knew who the Romulans were all along, and told everyone in the wake of the attack, when survivors told of a tattooed Vulcanoid politely asking Captain Robau to shuttle over to his ship.

 

[Admiral_Young]

This being an alternate universe it's possible that humans have already encountered and seen Romulans and know of their relation to the Vulcan's. Ayel did show himself to the Kelvin bridge crew during their initial hail to the Kelvin but otherwise there would have been no way of knowing that was a Romulan ship since the Kelvin's sensors had no idea what it's classification was. I assume Romulan vessels are quite different in the alternate timeline than the Narada (discounting what Countdown tells us where the Narada came from). The only thing I can think of us is Pike saw Nero's pointed ears and assumed he was Romulan.

Oh and just a nitpick...Kirk was a Cadet still (maybe he did have a officer rank already but I doubt it since he didn't even graduate) when he burst on to the bridge)

 

[F. King Daniel]

This being an alternate universe it's possible that humans have already encountered and seen Romulans and know of their relation to the Vulcan's. Ayel did show himself to the Kelvin bridge crew during their initial hail to the Kelvin but otherwise there would have been no way of knowing that was a Romulan ship since the Kelvin's sensors had no idea what it's classification was. I assume Romulan vessels are quite different in the alternate timeline than the Narada (discounting what Countdown tells us where the Narada came from). The only thing I can think of us is Pike saw Nero's pointed ears and assumed he was Romulan.

Oh and just a nitpick...Kirk was a Cadet still (maybe he did have a officer rank already but I doubt it since he didn't even graduate) when he burst on to the bridge)

When Kirk and Sulu are beamed up from freefall, the computer screen gives them both the rank of lieutenant. FWIW Spock calls cadet Uhura a lieutenant in the hanger scene too.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Admiral_Young,

Being an Alternate Reality rooted in the change made in 2233.04, the Kelvin's encounter with the Narada probably revealed that they were Romulans.

Language of locator beacons? Markings on the hull we simply didn't see on film? Romulan-language heard spojken in the background while forensically examining the transmissions from the Narada to the Kelvin?

Maybe even something familiar with the energy signature from the Narada's weapons, scanned from wreckage from the shuttles and/or the Kelvin?

The Vlucan-Romulan link might have been theoretical in the Prime reality, as spock speculates on the ancestry in BOT "And I believe this likely", but unproven in Prime until they saw what they looked like.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

This being an alternate universe it's possible that humans have already encountered and seen Romulans and know of their relation to the Vulcan's. Ayel did show himself to the Kelvin bridge crew during their initial hail to the Kelvin but otherwise there would have been no way of knowing that was a Romulan ship since the Kelvin's sensors had no idea what it's classification was. I assume Romulan vessels are quite different in the alternate timeline than the Narada (discounting what Countdown tells us where the Narada came from). The only thing I can think of us is Pike saw Nero's pointed ears and assumed he was Romulan.

Oh and just a nitpick...Kirk was a Cadet still (maybe he did have a officer rank already but I doubt it since he didn't even graduate) when he burst on to the bridge)

When Kirk and Sulu are beamed up from freefall, the computer screen gives them both the rank of lieutenant. FWIW Spock calls cadet Uhura a lieutenant in the hanger scene too.

Spock was likely a Lieutenant-Commander, and obviously served as an instructor at the Academy while awaiting the launch of the Enterprise under Pike.

Given that Pike was also involved with recruitment, I'd say this connection may be linked to Spock's assignment as an instructor.

 

[T'Girl]

This being an alternate universe it's possible that humans have already encountered and seen Romulans and know of their relation to the Vulcan's.

True, in this universe there could have been regular contact between the Romulans and the anti-Romulan allies all through the Romulan war (assuming the Romulan war even occurred in the Abrams universe). Pike mention arranging a conference with Romulan leadership. Perhaps the Federation and the Romulan Empire have a diplomatic relationship, embassies even.

. . . after the divergence point in 2233,

If that year was the divergence point. The actual divergence could have been years earlier ( ENT? ), if this isn't a parallel universe in whole cloth. JJ Abrams statements during interviews may be charming little bits of trivia, but just like Gene Roddenberry's claims in a similar venue, have no bearing on established canon.

a tattooed Vulcanoid politely asking Captain Robau to shuttle over to his ship

But there are races in the universe other than Vulcans and Romulans who share their appearance and (presumably) physiology.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Well, using the "universe could have diverged earlier because they got X bit of trivia wrong/changed premise Y" argument is a little pointless, because it could be applied just as well to split every Star Trek into dozens of universes, one for each continuity gaff or changed premise along the way.

If you're gonna pretend it's a totally different universe to begin with, why is "Nero's mysterious planet" a problem in the first place? It defeats your opening argument and renders the thread moot.

 

[Dukhat]

When Kirk related the story of the Kelvin's destruction to the Enterprise bridge crew, didn't he also say the mysterious ship (the Narada) was Romulan? If Kirk knew the ship was Romulan, then Pike Knew the ship was Romulan.

He's my guess as to what happened after 2233. After the Kelvin's destruction and the conclusion that not only were the attackers Romulans, but in fact had this giant superweapon of a ship with advanced technology, Starfleet presumably sent a fleet of ships to Romulus to find out what was going on (since destroying a Starfleet vessel is an act of war). The Romulans either had no idea about what had happened, or if they had any contact with Nero, they wanted nothing to do with him (unless you consider the deleted scene where Nero & crew immediately get captured by Klingons to be official; then he wouldn't even have had time to contact the 23rd century Romulans because he was in prison). Either way, Starfleet finds out sometime around 2233 that the Romulans look like Vulcans, unlike in the original timeline.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

T'Girl, the 2233.04 divergence point has been established as plainly as it can be.

 

[Devon]

T'Girl, the 2233.04 divergence point has been established as plainly as it can be.

In the film, no less.

 

[thew40]

It's possible that in the scans that were reverse-engineered, Starfleet saw: 1) that the technology had shades of Romulan tech seen during the Romulan War and 2) that the species was Vulcan-like. The Federation probably put two and two together and went to the Romulans with a big "what the fuck is this?" and the truth came out.

It's also worth noting that shortly after they were finally visually identified, the Romulans quickly took part in putting together a planet of "universal peace" with the Klingons and the Romulas. It's easy (for me) to believe that once the Romulan's identity was found out, they are quick to go diplomatic.

 

[Sharr Khan]

The take away I got. First contact (or rather second since we still must assume The Romulan War took place) with the Romulans took place after the Narada incident.

Point 1: Uhura knows "All three dialects" and can distinguish it from Vulcan.

Point 2: Kirk reminds Pike about what took place the day of his birth. "Romulans sir, they attacked in one ship, one massive ship..."

It takes very little reading between the lines to figure out that some sort of official contact began between the two powers following Nero''s first incursion.

"Balance Of Terror" has been neutralized.

 

[T'Girl]

Starfleet presumably sent a fleet of ships to Romulus to find out what was going o

The Federation probably put two and two together and went to the Romulans with a big "what the fuck is this?" and the truth came out.

And when Starfleet arrived at Romulus, they were met by the Romulan fleet, composed of ships just like the Narada or by ships with the equivalent weapons, engines and power systems. Right?

No. They would have actual been met by Romulan ships that were considerably smaller than the Narada and possessed warp drives that were powered by their impulse engines. Post-Romulan war era technology. Not late 24th century technology.

So what conclusions would Starfleet and the Federation draw from this? Maybe the Romulans held back their big "Narada class" warships as Starfleet approached their fukking homeworld in strength. You know how tricky they are. Starfleet better head straight back to Earth and begin building giant Starships of their own. Other wise there might be a "Narada gap."

 

[Timo]

True, in this universe there could have been regular contact between the Romulans and the anti-Romulan allies all through the Romulan war

...It would suffice if such contact emerged after 2233 - at which point Starfleet would take another look at the old Kelvin logs and Pike's dissertation thereof, draw a deep breath, and probably stamp the material Triple Top Secret With Mayo.

From that timepoint on, Pike would know or at least suspect that Nero (or whoever that shadowy mystery figure behind the spokesman was) had been a Romulan. Kirk would suspect such a thing as well, having read in on the Kelvin incident. Kirk would eagerly jump to conclusions when hearing that Uhura's transmission spoke of Romulans - and his enthusiasm would make Pike jump as well. It would not be 100% certain that Nero was a Romulan, but it would be a good guess. And casually confronting Nero with that guess was no doubt a good attempt by Pike to take his opponent off balance (as if one really needed to do that with Nero!!). Too bad Pike and Kirk guessed ever-so-slightly wrong...

Language of locator beacons?

But Pike's communications officer has trouble telling the Romulan language(s) apart from the Vulcan one(s)...

Just because Uhura thought she could hear the difference doesn't mean much. If only a select few people can do it, then any material from the first Narada encounter would be statistically suspect.

A point of interest: did the Kelvin crew hear what Robau and Nero's henchman were discussing? Or did they just hear Robau's heartbeat? Since they did hear the latter, one would suspect they would have rigged a channel to also hear the former. That'd give Starfleet more material to work from, including some names.

It's also worth noting that shortly after they were finally visually identified, the Romulans quickly took part in putting together a planet of "universal peace" with the Klingons and the Romulans. It's easy (for me) to believe that once the Romulan's identity was found out, they are quick to go diplomatic.

I guess they were really patting themselves on the back after managing to pull off the old war without compromising their anonymity. They probably weren't counting on that happening. But they're always shown preferring the stealthy and underhanded approach. So I wouldn't wonder a bit if "Romulan" were a standard accusation levied against any unidentified spatial foe, and seldom taken literally even by the speaker. Certain driven individuals might be convinced they were facing Romulan opponents, but Starfleet in general would be skeptical and slow to jump to conclusions.

"Balance Of Terror" has been neutralized.

One might think the attack in that TOS episode would have ruined Romulan anonymity for good anyway, cloaks or no cloaks. They attacked in their national war paint, after all! So it could be speculated they wanted to go public (insofar as admitting their complicity in the ongoing space operations and opening a dialogue, even if they didn't show their faces) at some point in the 23rd century anyway, and in STXI it just happened a bit earlier. The Planet of Galactic Peace would probably be another long-harbored scheme...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

So what conclusions would Starfleet and the Federation draw from this? Maybe the Romulans held back their big "Narada class" warships as Starfleet approached their fukking homeworld in strength. You know how tricky they are. Starfleet better head straight back to Earth and begin building giant Starships of their own. Other wise there might be a "Narada gap."

That's as good a reason as any.

 

[darkshadow0001]

NERO: (on viewscreen) Hi Christopher, I'm Nero.

PIKE: You've declared war against the Federation. Withdraw.
I'll agree to arrange a conference with Romulan leadership at a neutral location.

NERO: I do not speak for the Empire. We stand apart

Romulan?

When did Nero say Romulan? In the previous encounter between the Narada and the Kelvin no one said Romulan or Romulus.

In the episode "Balance of Terror," no one even know what a Romulan ship looks like, so it can't be the Narada's appearance.

In the episode "Who Watches the Watchers," there is a non-Vulcan, non-Romulan race that shares a appearance with both of them, so there are a minimum of three race that Nero (or previously Ayel) could be, given how many races look just like Humans, there could be dozens of races who look like Nero.

When young Lt. Kirk runs onto the bridge he spoke of the Romulan ship that attack the Kelvin, again where does he get Romulan? Pike stated that he could arrange a conference with Romulan leadership, like it wasn't too hard to do.

Are all big ships automatically Romulan. Years later when Kirk once again penetrates V'ger's cloud, will his initial reaction is that there is a Romulan ship inside. Decades later when Q introduces Picard to a Borg cube for the first time, will Picard at first assume it a Romulan cube?

If Pike wasn't sure, he easily could have said "your world's."

Why did Pike say Romulan?

They knew it was Romulan because it was the same ship that killed Kirk's father. The ship came from TNG's time, and that's how they new it was Romulan. We are in a different timeline now.

 

[Rush Limborg]

My best guess?

In the deleated scenes, the Klingons capture the damaged Narada just after the Kelvin's destruction.

News leaked out that the ship was Romulan. Starfleet Intel picked it up.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would think the recordings of Ayel inviting Robau to meet his captain would contain enough information to conclude the ship was Romulan. Unless he was speaking "Federation Standard".