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My take on Voyager

Anwar

Admiral
Admiral
Okay, insult me, belittle me, tell me what a hack I am, but I'm going to post this.

It's basically what I would've done if I were in charge of VOY. I'm sure we've all seen countless versions of this topic but there wasn't a more recent one to bump up so I'd figure I'd make another one.

The basic pilot idea is the same, with the Caretaker dragging VOY and the Maquis ship away from the Alpha Quadrant.

- Voyager is an older Ambassador class ship. This means there's a larger crew, so more people to kill off without severely hampering the ship, and it can stand up in a fight longer against Kazon raiders and Vidiian Cruisers, even though it's weapons and shields and stuff are outdated compared to Starfleet's present ships. So it's an older vessel with older tech more prone to need repairs and stuff but still able to survive.

- Have Janeway be the bridge science officer, a Commander maybe (to fit with her more "scientist" characerization). The real Captain, XO and other bridge officers all get killed in battle with the Kazon at the end of the first episode, leaving Janeway as surviving senior officer. The Kazon are the ones who destroy the Array, rather than let Voyager keep it.

- The tension with the Maquis would then be over who should run the ship, as Janeway isn't a qualified commanding officer. Thus the Maquis tension would be somewhat more justified because it didn't make much sense for there to be Maquis tension in the actual show, because the Maquis had no quarrel with the Federation, it was the Cardassians they were fighting.

- They wouldn't be in the Delta Quadrant, in fact it would be a mystery for a while as to where exactly they are. It annoyed me how in the show they knew exactly where they were in the DQ relative to Earth, so now they'd have no idea. This would also justify them visiting alien worlds and learning new stuff, it would fit into the plotline of gathering information about where they are so they can find a way home, and also keep up the "Boldy going where no one has gone before" theme. Plus this means we can keep around alien races VOY encounters and have more time to flesh them out.

-The region of space they're in, where the Caretaker and Ocampa were, is on the edge of "mapped space" according to Neelix, and is considered an empty periphery by the major powers of the area of space they're in, with several areas of nebulas, empty/abandoned systems and asteroid fields seperating it from the major inhabited areas. This is where the first season would take place, with them crossing all these frontier/periphery areas to get to the major regions in hopes of finding more clues or help as to where they are and what they can do about it. Neelix would drop some descriptions of who's waiting on the other side, so as to foreshadow the future seasons.

- Also, in several systems they pass and worlds they encounter when doing repairs or scavenging, they find evidence that there was once major life in the Periphery, inhabited worlds, and that something happened to ravage the planets, destroy entire star systems, and generally trash the place.

- The Kazon would be a race of space nomads with no homeworld, they all live on those big carrier ships which they stole from their former masters (now extinct) who also destroyed their original homeworld. They have limited tech, limited resources and thus has to be scavengers and pirates to anybody and anything they encounter that's not a part of the larger powers on the other side of the empty zone. Cullah's own group are the major power in the empty periphery zone. In fact they may be the only Kazon pirates, the other Kazon Sects encountered are quite different from Cullah's Brigands. Some would sell themselves out as defenders of other Periphery races, mercenaries (so maybe get a story or two where a particular Kazon Sect defend Voyager from Cullah for a price), some would have given up combat and settle on a world for a peaceful life, other Sects would do various things, etc. Cullah simply refuses to do anything but fight for survival out of pride.

- The Vidiians are from the major regions with their space having long been quaratined to prevent the Phage from spreading. They don't want to attract the major powers into a war so they don't openly attack and harvest them, preying on whomever they encounter in the Periphery.

- In that episode where Torres is split into two women, one Klingon and one human, keep them split afterwards. It opens up future story possibilities.

- Introuce Kes as a little girl, and have her turn into a teenager and then an adult as the show goes on until she dies.

- The first season would deal with the two crews having to learn to co-exist, with things extrmely tense because Janeway is so inexperienced as a command officer Chakotay comes off as more assertive and showing more command qualities than her. But Janeway would earn her keep and respect by using her scientific knowlege and analytical mind to help their survival, like rigging a way for them to use the Nebula matter as fuel by making a fuel converter with B'Ellana, or harvesting water from comets, etc. She'd also begin using her scientific analytical skills more for tactical uses as well as survivalist science. They'd also have to deal with Cullah's attacks, as Voyager is the most advanced ship without a major power as a backer his group have encountered and they want it not just for the tech but for another reason, "why" is not revealed until season two.

- Tuvok would be a Vulcan who isn't as adept at sciences and such (explaining why Janeway was Science Officer), although he retains a logical mind and is more distrustful of the Maquis, and although he comes to accept them as shipmates, he doesn't form any true friendships with common Maquis and has a purely professional, although respectful, relationship with Chakotay and Torres. He'd be more of a First Officer to Janeway, while Chakotay is on the bridge as the Maquis rep.

- Neelix is an older guy than what he was, a soldier who went AWOL in the Talax-Haakonian war and used his skills to survive as a merchant, although he found himself trapped as a scrap dealer on the edge of the periphery until Voyager came along. Now he sees this not only as a chance to make up for his past cowardice but also to get out of the Periphery and closer to the Major Regions without attracting the Kazon.

- All the alien races use different kinds of FTL drives, different weapons (no Phaser, lasers, disruptors, cannons, torpedos, etc), different shield-type things (differently named, at least), and have most of it turn out to be just as good if not comepletely superior to anything any pre-existing ST race has (aside from the Borg).

- On the worlds they do find with markets and stuff, they all use a Capitalist economy with currency, so Voyager has to trade for money, and some of the crew even take jobs for money, and the Ship itself could do work as a courier due to their neutrality, or investigate missing vessels (a way of meeting the Vidiians) for money.

My reasoning for why VOY can't tell where they are is that most of the stars in that region of space were blocked from Federation view by intervening nebulae, gases and other stars, so they wouldn't have ready fixes in star-mapping. That happens in real life, you know. We simply don't know what the other side of our galaxy looks like. We don't know what the stellar regions look like behind nebulae like the Horsehead and Orion Nebulae.

the ending of S1 of VOY would have VOY fighting one of the massive Kazon Carrier ships which is going for an all-out attack to keep VOY from leaving the Periphery and making it to The Major Regions. The Carriers usually don't fight even though they're the best armed Kazon vessels because they have families and children and non-combatants living on them (as Cullah's group have no homeworld) but they thought there was no other choice but to use it's heavy weaponry.

Voyager has it badly damaged, and Janeway is faced with the choice of destroying it even though she knows there's more non-combatant Kazon on it than combatants, or just running away. Tuvok tells her that if they don't destroy it, it'll transmit their coordinates and likely they'll face all the Kazon in the area in a swarm attack before they leave the Periphery, and they can't survive with the damage they've taken. So Janeway has no choice but to destroy the ship. And despite Chakotay telling her that she's gained more respect from the Maquis and proven to be at least a capable captain to her detractors in the Fleet crew, Janeway leaves for her quarters to retire for the night.

The last scene would of her making a log entry of how "today I got lucky, I destroyed an enemy vessel with thousands of Kazon aboard...I probably killed a lot of Kazon who weren't fighters...families, mothers with their babies, children...and I've been congratulated for it. Maybe I'll get luckier, next time I could destroy more ships and kill more innocent people..." with her being unable to finish the entry and then the credits would appear on screen.

The opener of S2 would have Voyager making it out of the Periphery, past Cullah's group of Kazon Pirates and enter the central core where the major powers and central worlds/commerce areas and stuff are, hoping they can find some ports to stop and do repairs and maybe find more information on where they are.

The dominant power there is The League of Spacefaring Civilizations, a multi-species group that was originally formed as a military alliance for mutual defense against their greatest foe (the 8472 aliens, who in this version are naturally from our galaxy and are classified as the "Fluidics") that eventually evolved into a Federation-esque group, only with more of a military bent. They put less emphasis (little to none) on purely scientific or exploratory endeavors and dedicated their sciences and star forces to military applications. The only explorations or archeological missions they undertake are to uncover and seek out alien technologies for their own advantages.

They became so military-oriented that they eventually started ignoring the lesser wars and plights of non-League civilizations (not doing anything to help the Vidiians fight the Phage, or end the Haakonian Occupation of Talax) so they could focus more on their own defenses (because they're so scared of the Fluidics who are IMMENSELY powerful). They're not bad guys or some generic space military state, but they have military bases and garrisons on practically every League world and colony; however the civilians all undertsand their need and are grateful for their presence.

Imagine the meeting from the beginning of Trek VI, only they're discussing increasing militarization and mothballing their scientific and exploration branches to increase military spending (they use a capitalist economic system).

So as long as VOY obeys their laws and stuff, they can use their ports and trade, and the League may even rescue them from Kazon Pirates if it's in their patrol space, but once VOY leaves League influence (or even the outer reaches of League space, at the very beginning of entrance into the nebulas/asteroid fields/empty systems leading to the Periphery), they're on their own against pirates and stuff because the League isn't interested in defeating the Kazon pirates once and for all and saving anyone in the periphery.

Size wise, they're a little smaller than the Federation, and maybe technologically on par in some areas, below in some others (because of the military bent) and superior to them in ship design and military technologies.

The League's best ship would be similar to the Voth City-Ship, which is a "Mobile Command" they only have a handful of. They serve as mobile HQs and Super-Flagships. To borrow from Star Wars they have automated battle drones that serve as their smallest craft (sorta their take on Fighters). Like the Battle Drones from TNG's "Arsenal of Freedom".

As for the League's weapons, they're basically supposed to be what if the Federation was near-totally militant with little to no scientific or exploration divisions. This would mean they're more rigid in tech development and don't have the "Jack of all Trades" style that the Federation uses. But they don't grow expendable clone armies to be sent out to die or make mass-production warships that're meant for ramming and stuff like the Dominion does either. They try to make mass-production ships that can hold up in a fight, and their military is made up of trained League citizens who volunteer for service (like a regular military).

So their ship-building skills are below the Dominion's because they try for quality AND quantity, and they're more rigid in design than the Federation. But they do have superior vessel design with more powerful weapons, hulls that are harder to breach, good military training and tactics, more maneuverable (isn't very good as a warship if it's a lumbering brick).

To command a Mobile Command, you have to be at least a Senior full Admiral, or a Fleet Admiral.

In general, their ships are larger than Federation or Dominion ships, with the Sovereign maybe being their equivalent of a Heavy-Destroyer, but not a Cruiser.

I'd keep Lon Suder alive, although I don't know if I'd eventually kill off Seska or have her escape to try and join the League Military after ditching the Kazon (who she'd join ultimately).

The other powers would be the Krenim, who're going through a new expansionist campaign due to a military uprising on the Krenim homeworld against the Ruling Imperial family.

The Devore Imperium, who're very anti-telepathic, due to the "Great War" 2000 years ago which involved telepathics enemies who used their abilities to great offensive effect.

The Heirarchy and the Malon, just to add some more names and stuff in to flesh out the region.

And the Lokkirrim and Think Tank, to set up the "AI War" story for later on in the show.

That's it for now, but I'll post more later.
 
I appreciate the fact that your post is so detailed...but really, do you HONESTLY think that's a better show? I mean, Voyager may have had problems here and there, but it didn't completely miss the mark in terms of good storytelling.

You forget the TV medium itself as well --- for you to have a plot as intrictate as you described, it would have to be full of mini-arcs or be one massive Soap-Opera-ish story. Don't you know that DS9 was doing that exact thing at the same time in the 90s? Why would TV execs want two Treks doing the same non-syndication friendly show simultaneously?

You do make some valid concerns here and there regarding aliens and currency and different races having different FTL engines(here in Trek land, we call them WARP drives :). But if you just imagine everything that goes on BETWEEN episodes (when the ship gets repaired, when food/supplies are taken from planets, when VOY must deal w/ non-threatening races for supplies, etc.), you'll see that there's no major reason why these things MUST be addressed in the show because they're a given. And concerning alien WARP speeds, the VOY crew is just putting it in terms THEY use, like centimeters being converted to inches for Americans.

And finally, I don't like the idea of the characters being screwed with (Janeway not being a "real" captain, Tuvok being dumbed-down, Neelix being beefed-up) - the characters are what made Voyager great. Kim & Chakotay were the only two characters I wish had been fleshed out more but even still, I wouldn't want their basic character designs to change.



But that's my opinion :) - Again, GOOD job!...You should write a fan-novel.
 
Well, I wouldn't have made VOY at the same time as DS9. Oversaturation was one of the main downfalls of Trek in the late 90s.

And if shows like Babylon 5, Farscape and nuBSG could get away with plots like mine, I'm sure VOY could.

And people keep complaining that all the stuff you say would happen between episodes should've been at the forefront, like in BSG. I do think a show with a premise like Voyager's should've done some of that stuff for at least the first 2 seasons otherwise it's not using its premise to it's full potential.
 
Oversaturation had nothing to do with Trek's demise - changes in television viewing habits along with the awful UPN network, poor marketing, bad TNG movies after First Contact and B&B's pointless "direction" with Enterprise killed Trek.

VOY & DS9 were completely different shows for different audiences within the Trek fanbase - its timing had nothing to do Trek overall.

Babylon 5 and Farscape may have had more detailed plots, but they were extremely niche in appeal and audience base compared to Trek. They also were only on for a few seasons (4 or 5 max, right?...less than 100 episodes)

BSG is hardly the yardstick to judge all other Sci-Fi shows against. While it had an awesome mini-series and first season, BSG quickly proved that it really had no focus and characters started acting less and less like themselves and were killed off randomly just to keep the show edgy. Moore made a show so unstable he had no choice but to end it after 4 seasons. He can't even muster 100 eps out of his "flawless" show. I'm not saying episode # is any indication of a show's quality but all too often these "short but amazing" shows are given more credit then they deserve. If you had 160+ episodes of BSG, you couldn't act all crazy and weird like it does in every episode. People would just get tired of the wheel being reinvented every episode and totally detach from the characters and plot.

And DS9 only got away with it because it used seven seasons to flesh out its story and not every episode - even in the middle of the war conflict - was this depressing, someone's gonna die story. Death and doom was never Trek's purpose, and it is only by Voyager BEING run simultaneously with DS9 did that show even get to go down that path.

So really, you should be thankful Voyager stayed as optimistic and syndication-friendly as it did.


Oh, and the show never strayed from it's premise: Getting home and making the right choices while getting there. Pissed off fanboys made up all these other "unfulfilled premises" because the show wasn't done THEIR way.
:rolleyes:
 
Yeah, but I wrote a whole ton of extra stuff for this VOY rewrite, I tried to do the entire series out but I ran out of new dieas by about Season 6.

To be honest I never liked the "voyage home" type stories that much, so I had a larger plot for VOY wherein once they realize it, going home becomes less of a huge issue. You'll see what I mean when I get to these poitns in my next post.
 
And I also think that a show with a premise like VOY's would require lots of arcs and serialized storytelling. I do understand that back in 1995 that sort of storytelling was rare and didn't do well in ratings (DS9, B5) but if Paramount and UPN really wanted a more syndication friendly show to run alongside DS9 than maybe they should've made one whose premise didn't require arcs or serial storytelling to maximize its potential.
 
I think you along w/ many other DS9/BSG lovers are under the impression that serialized shows are better overall than syndication-friendly series. That's just wrong.

Serialized shows may have limited appeal here and there but by and large, networks WANT shows that don't have to build on 50 other episodes in order to be understood. That's not to say you can't put serialized-material into these shows, but you just can't show as much of it in every episode. Things need to change gradually, in bits and pieces.

And I still don't think Voyager's premise REQUIRED intricate and detailed arcs - Writers knew they had probably 6 or 7 years to work with storylines, regardless of ratings thanks to the deal w/ UPN and it being the flagship show. Why risk overloading new viewers with so much content when they could take their time?
 
I think that you are forgetting that Lost and Grey's Anatomy Are very popular and they are very serialized. So, serialized can do well if it is written well.
 
Those are TWO shows out of the hundreds and hundreds done over the years - TWO shows, that for the time being, are thought well of in viewers' eyes. All it takes is one bad plot twist or series of bad eps in a row and the whole serialized storyline will fall apart. Just look at BSG for a perfect example of something great turning awful in less than one season.

Also, I'm not saying serialized shows are necessarily inferior to syndication-friendly ones, but it's a LOT harder to make a good episode that stands alone than one that simply "fits in" with the a bunch of others.

If you ever REALLY look at what the best moments in Trek are, they lie in standalone episodes - NOT 30-episode-long story arcs.
 
Okay, so it'd be revealed that the reason Cullah was so determined to get his hands on Voyager wasn't because he wanted its tech, it was because he's been trying to apply to the League for Kazon membership and kept getting rejected because they don't offer anything worthwhile to the League's well-being. He saw that VOY's tech was around League level and thought of capturing it and presenting it as a gift to the League.

Seska would be discovered and have gone to join the Kazon like she did in the actual show, only when she realizes Cullah's intentions she decides it has some merit, and that maybe she could use the League to find a way home, or at least live a protected life in whatever area of space they're in. So she starts a re-organizing plan of Cullah's forces to make them into a fighting force capable of taking Voyager.


The VOY crew would have to do more work and stuff once in League space to earn money to pay for the ship repairs, do trading and gather information and allies once they're past the Periphery area and don't have to worry about any more Kazon or Vidiian attacks if they stopped anywhere.

This would be an opening story arc, with the crew splitting up for this: Some staying to supervise repairs, some going to see what trading can be done/information can be gathered, and some crew going with Neelix to find some friends of his who might be able to help as allies. Here we'd run into some Talaxian ex-soldiers working as mercenaries, with their leader willing to help out as an escort because Neelix is an old friend. But others in the squad would be hostile to the idea because they remember how Neelix also went AWOL and turned his back on the military effort, even though they would've lost anyways.

The information gatherers would discover that whatever maps they can get aren't very helpful because the League hasn't done much exploring in a very long time, they've been focusing more on defenses and military tech to defend against the Fluidics that they hadn't gone on any exploration missions for centuries. The best map is an old one that goes out only as far as a few hundred light years beyond the Periphery, and it doesn't match very well with any Federation maps they have in the Astrometrics Lab.

They'd have more run ins with maybe some occasional League soldiers who have a grudge against the Talaxian escorts, as well as more benign League soldiers who end up rescuing them or lending a hand when they get in trouble, as well as VOY searching around League space for more information from maybe the black market on anything that can tell them where they are, like DNA testing to see if any others of any of the various Fed species have been around here before, or anything close to them (yeah it's a Farscape rip, but they were in the same situation...). The remaining tension between the Maquis and Fed crews would settle down by now, as they accept that they have to work together and co-exist if they want to survive.

Seska would've been discovered and driven of by this point, having gone to the Kazon and learnt the truth behind Cullah's actions towards Voyager (wanting it as a bargaining chip to get membership in the League), things going as they did in the real show, with some traitors on VOY loyal to Seska and stuff. Seska stealing Chakotay's DNA for a baby, meeting Denara Pel, etc.

Difference being that Seska helps re-organize Cullah's pirate force and manages their resources and economic status so that they can get proper repairs and upgrades done to their ships (It turns out that most of their bad luck in combat with VOY was primarily due to poor vessel deployment and poor equipment, due to Cullah's incompetence as a tactician and resource manager), making them more a force to be reckoned with.

B'Ellana would die, killed in battle or something and make a final request to Chakotay that he's stunned by, but accepts because "it's what the ship needs". They'd then leave with her body, telling Janeway that they'll be back but they want to honor B'Ellana's last wish.

Voyager would come to an area of League space that's near the edge of it, where they could come under attack and wouldn't be able to rely on a League Patrol Cruiser picking up their distress if the Talaxians can't defend them.

The same set-up as the first part of "Basics" would occur, with a Kazon suicide agent getting onboard, the new-and-improved Kazon force attacking and out-manuevering Voayger, the suicide bomber would detonate, further damaging the ship. Realizing that this may be it, Janeway pulls a Captain Forrest and orders everyone to abandon ship while she stays behind to try and distract the Kazon long enough for them to escape with the Talaxian escorts.

Alone on the ship as everyone leaves, Janeway keeps fighting at Tactical with the bridge exploding in sparks and flames all around her (Seska wants to blow up the bridge first to kill off the senior officers before the Kazon take the ship), and the screen would fade to black and as the Exec Producers names appear, a huge explosion is heard. End of Part one.

(just to clarify, that last post about the Kazon attack is meant to be the S2 finale)
 
Wow, Anwar, as I've said before in other threads I really like your ideas. I think they build upon themes that weren't fully explored on Voyager. I don't think there was anything 'wrong' with Voyager and in fact I quite like it, but I also thing that your ideas are in many way improvements. I particularly like the idea of making Voyager an older ship and making Janeway a science officer to generate more conflict. I think overall the main focus of the show should have been on the people and how they react in the situation and how they struggle to hold onto their humanity in the face of adversity, and I think that your ideas help flesh out that concept greatly. Kudos! :thumbsup:
 
Well, as I said I'd have wrapped up most of the major Maquis/Fleet tensions by S2. Because fi they couldn't work together by then, they'd be dead within a year after that.

These people are under heavy threat of death, trapped in an unknown region of spac with no idea of where they are and how long it'll take to get home, and with no support.

In that sort of situation you can't afford to be at each other's throats for too long if you want to live.

And besides, I'd think Chakotay himself would be one of the first to start getting on with the Fleet crew, because he was an Ex-Fleet Officer. In fact he wasn't even a traitor like Ro or Eddington were, he officially resigned and THEN joined the Maquis and didn't steal any Fleet information or tech for usage.

In my take, Chakotay would have no problem with Janeway on a personal level and have some sympathy for her position (non-command officer put in a Command position) although he would have problems with any bad choices she'd make but actually try to help teach her rather than lock her up, because he doesn't want to make the situation with the Fleeters loyal to her any worse.

In fact, I'd have Janeway and Chakotay have more problems dealing with their own people than with each other: Janeway would get flack from the Fleeters under her (aside from her loyalists like Tuvok and Harry) for not being a true Command Officer and bad choices, and Chakotay would suffer insubordination from his own Maquis because they see him as a "Sell-out" for teaming with Janeway so fast.

Though, as the show goes on Janeway would prove herself, Chakotay would show that teaming with the Fleeters was the right move, and they'd have to work together more as the Kazon get worse and stuff.

Though, once they reach the League some crew would want to leave and maybe live there so they'd have to grant them that.
 
That's incredibly detailed, and you've obviously thought a lot about it. I don't agree with all of your changes, but many of them would have made the show more interesting (IMO, please don't bite my head off). I look forwrd to seeing how you'd deal with the Borg...
 
Actually, the Borg would become a bigger part of the show about half-way through or so, but I'd try and end the Bigger Borg Arc I had though of maybe by S6. It would end with Seven's death (spoiler!).

The next episode would open up with the huge explosion having come from the Kazon Carrier, as several Vidiian Cruisers show up and open fire on the Kazon force.

They destroy Cullah's ship, killing him. But I'd leave it ambigious as to whether or not Seska got out alive.

The rest of the Kazon forces break off the attack and retreat back to the Periphery, the Vidiian ships picking up the VOY escape pods and tractoring the ship away from the battlefield to Vidiian space, along with the Talaxian fighters.

The pods are put in the same large cargo area and the crew exit, ready to fight to the death rather than be harvested, when a figure appears and tells them that it's alright, they will all live nice healthy long lives.

It's Chakotay.

End teaser.

The episode would open up with Vidiian crewmembers all coming to the VOY crew and getting down on their knees, thanking them. Chakotay explains that when B'Ellana died, her last request was to be given to the Vidiians, so they could create cure for the Phage from her. This would then make them grateful enough to ally with VOY and give them the major allies they were needing at that point (as the League was turning out to be a dead end).

(And also, I realized that it made no sense for B'Ellana to not give them the cure if it's her DNA in the original show, so I changed it so that she'd have to let the Phage run it's course through her (which the Vidiian doctors have realized will kill her) and then when it's done and she's dead they'd use what they observed and her DNA (which created antibodies before she died from the strain of fighting the Phage) to formulate the cure. They couldn't just clone her because Vidiian cloning tech produces a genetic drift from the original that's usually the same, but they didn't want to take that risk)

Janeway (who was recovered from the ruined bridge of Voyager) would wake up to Chakotay and Tuvok in a Vidiian med-bay, where Chakotay would explain everything I just described to her.

The Vidiians are now cured, and have taken VOY to a Vidiian outpost to repair it. It will take time so the crew can rest and recover. A lot of them need it, especially the ones who're rather taken back at the idea of the Vidiians being their allies now.

Fortunately, Denara Pel is there to serve as the Vidiian liason to the crew, so they can at least trust her.

Time would pass, with Neelix seeing how worshipful the Vidiians now are acting towards the VOY crew, and how they talk about how they can finally return to their older ways of being "teachers and scientists" and stuff, like they were millenia ago. But others are more depressed, wondering how they can make up for what they've been doing, who would stnad up for them or believe them? One ship full of unknown aliens isn't enough.

Neelix would then come up to the Vidiian Commander of the base and offer a proposal to them.

Janeway would be going over some repairs/upgrades the ship is getting from the Vidiians, when a Vidiian diplomat would come to her and tell her what a wonderful idea she proposed, how it will be the old age of greatness again, not just for the Vidiians, but a true rebirth of "The Conclave".

Janeway would wonder what this guy is talking about, and is stunned when she finds out:

Neelix told the Vidiians that if they want their old reputation, or anyone willing to stand up for them, they could give a good message by liberating the Talaxians from the Haakonian Occupation as the Talaxians were a well-liked people with a reputation for honestly. The Vidiians are already assmebling a military force to begin the campaign if the Haakonians refuse to withdraw via diplomacy.

Moreso, the Vidiians returning to the old ways and with allies can recreate the "Conclave", an interstellar alliance of worlds that once existed millenia ago but came to an end when the Vidiians (who were the primary proponents of the original Conclave) were infected with the Phage and the Conclave was all but destroyed in the "great war" 2000 years ago that left most of the members of the Conclave extinct and their worlds ruined.

It turns out that what is now known as the Periphery was once a rich area teeming with intelligent life, but the "great war" left it all virtually destroyed and the life extinct, with the surviving races in what is now "the major regions" joining into the League of Spacefaring Civilizations.

Janeway is understandable furious when she realizes who was the one who suggested this idea to the Vidiians, claiming the VOY crew were the ones who originated the idea. Confronting Neelix is a scene similar to the Sisko-Garak confrontation at the end of "Pale Moonlight" she accuses him of exploiting the Vidiians for his own ends.

He counters that what he's done is best for everyone involved. The Talaxians will be free and will be more than willing to join this new "Conclave" the Vidiians want to create as to gain a powerful military ally (the Talaxians however will still see the Vidiians as organ harvesters, and when they liberate Talax they'll just think Neelix went nuts and sold them all out in mass-harvest so at first the Talax rebels will fight against the Vidiian and VOY forces), and their PR skills will be enough to convince other powers in the Periphery to join. VOY will have helped to stabilize what was a chaotic, disjointed region.

And he states he also did it for VOY as well, because "Since you can't go home, you can bring home here". He's been studying their "Federation" and while he finds some of it to be left wanting, he thinks it's a good basic idea.

Janeway reluctantly agrees with Neelix, after even Tuvok (it's logical) and Chakotay (it helps people and give VOY all the allies they'll ever need) also side with him.

But as punishment, she makes Neelix the VOY Ambassador to the Vidiians, so he has to spend all his time around the guys who took his lungs.

The "Great War" that caused the Vidiians to be infected with the Phage, made the Conclave fall apart and destroyed all the life that existed in the Periphery, it was against the Fluidics when they first entered this dimension from a huge Fluidic Rift that closed soon after they arrived.

They fought a war against the alien races of the region 2000 years ago, using their bio-infection (that thing they did where if you get punched or slashed by them their DNA enters you and eats you alive), their telepathics powers and their vast bio-weapon power to destroy planets and entire species, with the Conclave and other powers desperately fighting for their lives.

There was another major power around, the mysterious and isolationist Voth, and it was their aid in the war that beat back and held off the Fluidics for the most part. But they took so much loss of life and damage in the war they removed themselves from the Galactic Public in all ways and practically disappeared after the war, no one having seen them since.

However, the war was so devastating that many of the Conclave races were either DNA ravaged or totally wiped out, with most of their planets and systems also destroyed/ravaged. This explains all the destroyed systems and ravaged planets Voyager found when it was travelling through the Periphery.

The Conclave's best minds were able to come up with a bio-weapon that halted the Fluidic advance and killed many of them, but not before the Vidiians themselves were infected with Fluidic DNA. They tried using their advanced medical tech to stop it, but instead they caused the Fluidic DNA to mutate into the Phage, which then spread to their entire race and turned the Vidiians into the desperate organ-hunters they were in the beginning of VOY. The Conclave's knowledge was lost to time and so was the bio-weapon they used.

The few surviving Fluidics then retreated and have spent the last 2000 years rebuilding their species and their forces for another war, with the League of Spacefaring Civilizations forming to try and stop them.

Also, due to the Fluidics' destructive usage of telepathy in the Fluidic Wars, this is what caused the Devore Empire to be so anti-telepathic and develop anti-telepathy technologies.
 
TimelessTrek said:
I appreciate the fact that your post is so detailed...but really, do you HONESTLY think that's a better show? I mean, Voyager may have had problems here and there, but it didn't completely miss the mark in terms of good storytelling.

No it didn't. There are many outstanding episodes. The flaw with Voyager was the original premise to begin with. It was - in essence - and to distill Anwar's long post down into shorter premise, was Lost in Space, Star Trek.

Maureen Robinson, err Captain Janeway and her husband Dr. Robinson err Chakotay and their family - Penny, Judy, Will, the Robot and Dr. Smith err the Voyager crew are lost and because you cannot have outside character continuity you have to rely on inside character continuity with the alien of the week premise.

They made Voyager hard for the writers to begin with. It was a campy enough one in 1960 something let alone a more sophisticated audience in 1990 something.

Thus the overall concept failed despite the fact the individual episodes worked.
 
Then how come everyone keeps going on about how great nuBSG is when it has a similar premise?

I mean sure, it's crap now, but when it first aired it was hailed as a great show.
 
Anwar said:
Then how come everyone keeps going on about how great nuBSG is when it has a similar premise?

I mean sure, it's crap now, but when it first aired it was hailed as a great show.

I think because the characters are complex, flawed and they use archetypes to make points about today's problems in a more sophisticated 2007 kinda way than Star Trek has ever done. At least since DS9, IMHO.

Edited to add: Also remember that the Cylons are the ying to BSG's yang in a much more interesting way than the Borg evolved into on Voyager.
 
Well yeah, but the Cylon/Galactica thing is that they are intrinsically linked via origins and have a personal history.

Also, the Cylon were a part of the show since the very beginning and were made to be Galactica's adversaries, whereas the Borg were TNG's creation, only showed up halfway through the show and weren't meant to be a personal enemy for anyone.

As for the characters being "complex", I think it's more the acting making us think that. I mean none of the characters have really developed as the show has gone on.

Adama: Staunch military man alienated from son in the beginning, now is still a staunch military man and is only semi-alienated from son.

Apollo: Self-righteous prick, became a fatass, is still a self-righteous prick.

Starbuck: Started as drunken idiot, then developed PTSS, last seen as drunken idiot only with a tad of religion.

Tigh: Drunk with wife. Still a drunk only now without a wife and with an eyepatch.

Roslin: Normal, then went batsh*t crazy, went back to normal and is starting to go batsh*t crazy again.
 
Anwar said:
Adama: Staunch military man alienated from son in the beginning, now is still a staunch military man and is only semi-alienated from son.

Apollo: Self-righteous prick, became a fatass, is still a self-righteous prick.

Starbuck: Started as drunken idiot, then developed PTSS, last seen as drunken idiot only with a tad of religion.

Tigh: Drunk with wife. Still a drunk only now without a wife and with an eyepatch.

Roslin: Normal, then went batsh*t crazy, went back to normal and is starting to go batsh*t crazy again.

That is all soooooo true! :lol:
 
Anwar, you have some great ideas that frankly would have worked a lot better in some cases than what we saw on the show. Good work.
 
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