Modernized TOS Enterprise

[JJohnson]

I'm motivated by some postings from Facebook to post again, about TOS. Let's say that the exterior is exactly like it was in TOS, as interpreted by Deg3D

http://deg3d.biz/posts/deg3D_TOS.5_E_BND_1956.jpg

or Vektor

http://img.trekmovie.com/images/drbenterprise_3.jpg



With that exterior, and the original series deck restraints (21 decks) and dimensions (289 m x 72.6 m x 127.1 m), how would you interpret the interior of such a ship that it honors the original, but is more "modern" and "futuristic" at the same time? I would exclude any JJ Abrams influence (no lens flares, gaping holes through the saucer, iBridge designs, breweries masquerading as engineering, etc.), but go a bit more practical with the ship and consoles.

For example, the bridge, still circular, but 2 turbolifts, maybe a bit larger main viewer, with the semi-circle console layouts, but perhaps touchscreens and 3D graphics along the walls, like the 3DS can do without glasses, or gesture interface, like Kinect (and Spock in the second pilot), and fewer gel buttons, and slightly more Enterprise-like buttons. An engineering with a recognizable warp core, Jeffries tubes going into the innards, dilithium frame inside the main intermix chamber. A medical bay with more than 3 bio beds, and some more impressive tech, like a slide over live-3D x-ray scan of the patients innards while performing surgery underneath. Corridors that don't look 14' tall, but maybe like TMP in a way.

I'm not sure if anyone's done this before in the art thread, so I'm asking this here if anyone's done such an interpretation before. Thanks!

 

[Maurice]

The pix are too big and violate the board guidelines. Can you scale them down?

 

[Dude111]

I think it would be K-RAD if such a ship like this REALLY EXISTS out there in the vastness of space! (NCC-1701) -- The Best one of any on star trek!!

 

[Ithekro]

So basically the original ship with TMP detailing?

 

[JJohnson]

The pix are too big and violate the board guidelines. Can you scale them down?

How do I scale them down using the board image tool itself?

 

[TheSubCommander]

All I can say is I like those pics 1776554321890 times better than the second rate shots we got with TOS remastered. Someone has yet to explain to me why the Enterprise looked better on DS9 and the Defiant looked better on IAMD, than TOS remastered, which is newer. Heck voyager looked better in 1994 by comparison.

 

[JJohnson]

So basically the original ship with TMP detailing?

Kind of, yes. Within reason, of course.

A few things I'd start off with, to get it out of the way:
-F/P/S dorsal and ventral phasers on the saucer. It was dangerous to have just forward phasers on the saucer in TOS - it seemed as if you could simply park above-aft and be out of the ship's firing arc.
-aft torpedos and phasers, same placement as in TMP on the engineering hull
-dual turbolifts on bridge
-shield grid is visible on the ship's hull
-ship pennants as in TOS

Corridors, I'd think there could be some medium ground between TOS and TMP. TOS seemed 6-8' wide and 12-14' tall, while TMP seemed a bit more cramped. I'd make the corridors 10' tall, and make the 'moire' cross beams a lot shorter, perhaps have them replaced with lighting. The walls would have most machinery hidden behind, with recessed handles to remove the panel. Some panels would have a mesh screen to allow viewing of the machinery inside; there would be more fiber-optic cabling and circuitry etching, and smaller 'blinkies.' The cross beams would have red alert light indicators in the middle as a rectangle, or across the entire beam for alert conditions (red/yellow).

I've got the general guidelines of what I think would look good, but I'm not a CG artist by any means, so realizing a vision would be hard for me.

 

[1001001]

The pix are too big and violate the board guidelines. Can you scale them down?

How do I scale them down using the board image tool itself?

Are you hotlinking those pictures, or are those your sites? They're from two different places....???

I'm going to convert them to links, since they are huge. If you save it on Photobucket, it will resize to reasonable dimensions. If those aren't your sites, you need to move them to a picture hosting site anyway, since hotlinking isn't allowed. I can't really tell if these sites are yours or somebody else's.

Sorry, and thanks.

 

[Shaw]

Here is my question... why go backwards?

The TOS Enterprise doesn't need to be modernized... 21st century people need to be.

Why would you need more than a single phaser bank? This is a FTL ship that can shoot in all directions essentially at once. As long as warp drive is functioning, it can hit anything. When it is down to impulse power, yeah, it has some limitations.

More importantly, the Enterprise isn't a battleship. For the same reasons we don't have police driving around in tanks with rocket launchers and machine guns, the Enterprise isn't intended to come across as threatening. It can defend itself or outposts, but it isn't intended for battle. In fact the post WNMHGB refit was intended to make it a great exploration vessel (with the doubling of the crew size mostly for mission specialists). Before that she was mainly a patrol vessel.

Like the USS Ford, much of her interior space is intended to be multipurpose. Few rooms on the Enterprise are locked into a specific purpose. But then again, the Enterprise is a wireless ship (both informational and power supply), so you set up what you need where you can find room. The amount of power you can use anywhere on the ship is limited only by the amount of power available. All devices and equipment for the Enterprise are powered wirelessly by the Enterprise once they are on board. And the Enterprise has enough power to support a small to medium size colony... and can transmit that power to a planet surface from orbit.

And of course there is a bowling alley... when you need it. That space can also be used as a dance/banquet hall, theater, or accommodations for large group of people. The hangar deck is about the size of a volleyball court and can be used as such if people wanted. The Enterprise is versatile enough to handle most tasks, and yet is deceptively simple in it's design.

Most of the mission specialists assigned to the Enterprise can work from their quarters, and can request additional space from the first officer (Spock) if they need more... this is part of the reason for the first officer also being the science officer, the biggest part of the mission is science. Under Pike the first officer wasn't the science officer, but back then it was a patrol vessel.

The corridors are about 10'... which works great when you consider that the average deck height is about 10'. Clutter isn't needed, and in fact would be a step backwards. On the Enterprise most of the plumming in the walls is actually plumming. Each of the pressure compartments of the primary hull can work independent of the rest of the ship in emergencies, but those systems don't take up a lot of space.

The Enterprise doesn't require much in supplies because everything is reusable. It is a closed system. Everyone on the Enterprise is allocated a fixed amount of raw materials. These can be used to make food and water, uniforms or personal items... though the amount that can be kept in a stable physical form is limited (for example you could make books, but you can't keep a lot of them at any one time... if you also wanted to eat and have clothing). As long as the ship has power and raw materials, it can make nearly anything it needs (which is why you don't want to leave things behind if you visit anywhere... coming home lighter than when you left is frowned on).


In the end, the original Enterprise is way more advanced than stuff that has come since... because everything after has been trying to be modern to people who are still living in an antique age. The TMP Enterprise and later have all been boxed in by the limited foresight of the designers who were trying to be modern back then. The original Enterprise is still the only one that has real future potential... lets not limit it.

 

[Shawnster]

What I wanted to see in Star Trek 2009. Either of the above exteriors you linked. Uniforms like what we saw (I think the uniforms are the only thing I don't have a problem with). Interior bridge consoles like this: http://vimeo.com/12023417

 

[BillJ]

What I wanted to see in Star Trek 2009. Either of the above exteriors you linked. Uniforms like what we saw (I think the uniforms are the only thing I don't have a problem with). Interior bridge consoles like this: http://vimeo.com/12023417

While the work done there is incredible, I think that it is a little too small and a little too gray for the type of film they were doing.

 

[Wingsley]

One comment about deg3d's and Vektor's excellent 3D artwork in their low-key re-imaginings of the TOS Enterprise:

I love how they've added interesting and subtle details to the "old" starship . Their artwork proves to me that it is indeed possible (and practical) to take the original Enterprise, essentially the same design we saw in TOS, and make it "new" again for high-definition television or movies. Matt Jefferies TOS design does work! That having been said, there are two minor details that I wish deg3d and Vektor had left alone, leaving them as they were: the "boomerang"-style Starfleet pennant and the "Airborne"-style naval-like block lettering and arrangement on the hull. Messing with these minor design elements does nothing to enhance the appearance of the "re-imagined" ship in my view, and only seems to detract from it. When I first saw the "refit" Enterprise in TMP in December of 1979, I could accept that a rebuilt space vessel may undergo significant changes to its appearance for practical reasons, so the new nacelles, new dish, new wings, and fancy do-dads made some sense to me. But replacing the pennant and the old block lettering were both unnecessary and detracted from the "new" ship. In a small but significant way, they seemed to amount to a changing of the meaning and intent of what TOS was. The use of the Microgamma typeface variant for the TMP refit hull lettering was actually the most irritating to me. It looked obnoxious then and it looks sad and dated now, as if someone was trying to say: "See here? We have fancy computers and artists using a modern, funky typeface... It's called a font! That's new computer-geek speak for we're better than we were before." Laugh all you like, but I found it tasteless.

Now that I got that out of the way, I just want to say that many of deg3d's and Vektor's subtle design changes to massage the Jefferies design work very well. There are elements of each that would look great in a re-imagined (or re-done TOS-R) Enterprise.

As for the Enterprise's interior: the artwork from people trying to revive those TOS interiors is intriguing, but comparatively rare. Over on the Trek Art forum, Donny Versiga has been trying to faithfully render the interior sets of both the TOS and TMP-era bridges, with astonishing success. In a re-imagining scheme, I might make things look a bit different, but essentially the same. The TOS Enterprise bridge, for example, is the best looking bridge in the entire TREK franchise. There are some subtle things I might experiment with, though. The square readout displays that ring the bridge at eye-level (when seated) might look more interesting if some of the squares were merged to form HDTV-like pillbox displays. The displayed content and texture of the display ring would still be the same, just a subtle re-arrangement. The TOS-style officers' chairs looked silly when the bridge tipped in "rough seas", so I would want to see them bolted down and with the subtle addition of TMP-style armrest restraints. (They would have to look like they "fit in" on the TOS chairs, tough.) The captain's throne would not change.

The constellations of buttons and switches would have to change. Even with all of its blinkies and displays, the Enterprise bridge did not have enough controls and readouts to make it a plausible spacecraft. Some buttons and switches would remain, but most would be replaced by iPad-style touch-screen displays vaguely similar to TNG. The buttons and switches would serve as a gateway device at each station, helping the operator switch between different software-generated touch-screen control panel layouts.

The upper ring of displays, broken up by colorful framing, actually made the overall TOS bridge design easier on the eyes than any other, in my opinion. If there were a change to the broader texture of the bridge that might be interesting to tinker with, it would be adding of a more metalic-looking texture to the walls. This would be especially interesting to see around the bridge's turbolift boarding area and the frame around the Main Viewer. Other TOS sets, such as the Enterprise's corridors, Engineering, Jefferies Tube and Transporter Room might also benefit from some metallic treatment.

The only other significant element would be the desktop displays. I would do what "In a Mirror, Darkly" did and trying to make them larger to be more useful as a display, as well as making them thinner. For the Briefing room, Spock's workstation would be reshaped to resemble a baby science station with control panel and readout. The triangular table display might disappear in favor of the wall-mounted viewscreens.

One thing I'd want to be careful about is the lighting of these sets. Contemporary TV and movies are really into dark atmospheres, and that doesn't work for a show like TOS (or TNG, for that matter). Sets would be well-lighted.

 

[bolak]

I really like Shaw's idea of the interior being unadorned 'flex spaces' with all the 'smarts' in the network and terminal devices, not sewn through the ship's structure.

Each starship bridge, for example, might have a different layout; Uhura liked the spot near the turbolift, so she grav-locked some con[sole]-padds to the desk there and they hooked-up to the appropriate data and power networks, authenticated themselves and their operator to the computer and lit-up with the required configuration*.

Theoretically she could de-dock the con-padds from the bridge and stick them to the wall of her quarters if she invoked a 'duvet day'.

In fact the only special aspect of the bridge, compared to any other location on board, is its shape. No reason the bridge crew, in this model, couldn't up-sticks and move to the space generally used as the lecture hall and run the ship from there.

* It would also explain why TOS consoles don't explode; there's no physical connection between the control terminal and the controlled systems! Just as it should be.

 

[Wingsley]

^ Would this approach explain the layout of Auxiliary Control?

 

[Wingsley]

Here is my question... why go backwards?

The TOS Enterprise doesn't need to be modernized... 21st century people need to be.

Why would you need more than a single phaser bank? This is a FTL ship that can shoot in all directions essentially at once. As long as warp drive is functioning, it can hit anything. When it is down to impulse power, yeah, it has some limitations.

More importantly, the Enterprise isn't a battleship. For the same reasons we don't have police driving around in tanks with rocket launchers and machine guns, the Enterprise isn't intended to come across as threatening. It can defend itself or outposts, but it isn't intended for battle. In fact the post WNMHGB refit was intended to make it a great exploration vessel (with the doubling of the crew size mostly for mission specialists). Before that she was mainly a patrol vessel.

Like the USS Ford, much of her interior space is intended to be multipurpose. Few rooms on the Enterprise are locked into a specific purpose. But then again, the Enterprise is a wireless ship (both informational and power supply), so you set up what you need where you can find room. The amount of power you can use anywhere on the ship is limited only by the amount of power available. All devices and equipment for the Enterprise are powered wirelessly by the Enterprise once they are on board. And the Enterprise has enough power to support a small to medium size colony... and can transmit that power to a planet surface from orbit.

And of course there is a bowling alley... when you need it. That space can also be used as a dance/banquet hall, theater, or accommodations for large group of people. The hangar deck is about the size of a volleyball court and can be used as such if people wanted. The Enterprise is versatile enough to handle most tasks, and yet is deceptively simple in it's design.

Most of the mission specialists assigned to the Enterprise can work from their quarters, and can request additional space from the first officer (Spock) if they need more... this is part of the reason for the first officer also being the science officer, the biggest part of the mission is science. Under Pike the first officer wasn't the science officer, but back then it was a patrol vessel.

The corridors are about 10'... which works great when you consider that the average deck height is about 10'. Clutter isn't needed, and in fact would be a step backwards. On the Enterprise most of the plumming in the walls is actually plumming. Each of the pressure compartments of the primary hull can work independent of the rest of the ship in emergencies, but those systems don't take up a lot of space.

The Enterprise doesn't require much in supplies because everything is reusable. It is a closed system. Everyone on the Enterprise is allocated a fixed amount of raw materials. These can be used to make food and water, uniforms or personal items... though the amount that can be kept in a stable physical form is limited (for example you could make books, but you can't keep a lot of them at any one time... if you also wanted to eat and have clothing). As long as the ship has power and raw materials, it can make nearly anything it needs (which is why you don't want to leave things behind if you visit anywhere... coming home lighter than when you left is frowned on).


In the end, the original Enterprise is way more advanced than stuff that has come since... because everything after has been trying to be modern to people who are still living in an antique age. The TMP Enterprise and later have all been boxed in by the limited foresight of the designers who were trying to be modern back then. The original Enterprise is still the only one that has real future potential... lets not limit it.

I agree with what Shaw is saying here, with some limitations...

In the novelization of STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE, page 115, Mr. Roddenberry expressly wrote the following:

The craft now approaching the Enterprise was, by official designation, at least, a long-distance shuttle. But the term shuttle was one of those misnomers which are often perpetuated by tradition in a service like Starfleet. It has begun long ago with moon shuttles, and now included this trim and powerful warp power craft which could have outraced the starships of only fifty year ago. It was, indeed, as foolish as calling the U.S.S. Enterprise a heavy cruiser, which it was most definitely not. It was the most powerful Federation vessel in existence, deserving at least the old naval description of battleship, although some admiral or statesman in the distant past had apparently seen the term cruiser as more civilized and less militaristic. Actually, most proper and accurate of all would have been to term the Enterprise an exploration and research vessel, which best described its principal use and functions.

So yes, we can confirm that Enterprise was officially a heavy cruiser in the Federation fleet. But that designation was downplayed for appearance's sake, as a ship like her would, in military terms, be considered a battleship. (The way Kirk and others express reverence for the power and importance of Enterprise and her sisterships throughout TOS, it's probably not a stretch to regard them, unofficially, as the closest thing the Federation ever came to building a dreadnought.)

Of course, Roddenberry also wrote that military use is not a Federation starship's primary function. So, starships may be classified by ship class names and ship types, but a starship is indeed a starship.

One thing Franz Joseph Schnaubelt emphasized in his Technical Manual and blueprints was the notion of so-called Class I starships (FJ's designation) being standardized, with many internals being kept the same across the entire fleet, presumably for ease of operation, maintenance and repair/upgrade. It may also be helpful for operational reasons involving security and emergency procedures. (This seems to be the general, somewhat military-based mindset behind FJ's literature, which seems to follow the procedural-based drill-and-practice approach to the Apollo moon missions; see the simulator scenes in the APOLLO 11 and APOLLO 13 movies.)

There does indeed seem to be some flexibility in how workstation equipment is configured in TOS. Auxiliary Control can be used to take control of the ship ("The Doomsday Machine", "The Way to Eden"), as can the Engine Room ("Space Seed", "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"). These spaces can also be used for other purposes ("The Changeling", "The Way to Eden".) But there would have to be some limitation to this to prevent unauthorized personnel from hacking into the system (TNG, "Power Play").

I could see a TOS starship crew configuring Auxiliary Control or some other command center, to temporarily serve as the ship's bridge in the event Deck 1 is damaged or in any other way compromised. I could also see other parts of the ship being configured for situation-specific needs to suit the need of the moment; like the Briefing Room being used as a hearing room ("Mudd's Women", "Wolf in the Fold", "The Deadly Years"). Obviously computers, viewscreens, and other equipment can be moved about fairly easily ("The Menagerie, Part 1"). The only question in my mind would be what limits there would be to this technological fluidity.

Agreed on the recycling nature of food, water and other resources aboard ship. The Enterprise must be based around a design that allows every consumable item on the ship to be recycled.

The only thing I disagree on is ship-based weapons. It was stated in "Balance of Terror" that there are multiple weapons banks (forward phaser room chatter). So we can assume there are at least fore and aft phasers and torpedo tubes, and probably flank phasers at least. That we only ever saw forward phasers and torpedoes used was a matter of FX budget, not the stated armament of the overall starship.

 

[Wingsley]

Clarification:

In "The Corbomite Maneuver", and, if memory serves, other eps such as "Friday's Child", we hear intercom chatter to the effect of "forward phaser will comply; all weapons at operational ready" and also a mention of "aft phaser". In "Balance of Terror" we hear a checklist of "port weapons show ready", as well as "starboard" and "midship" weapons as well. Between these references, and Kirk's occasional mention of "phaser banks" in more than one ep, and multiple torpedo launchers ("Elaan of Troyius"), is should be clear that FJ may have been conservative on the torpedo tubes, but close on the phasers.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only way I'd want the TOS-era Enterprise "modernized" is something like this.

It keeps the basic thrust of the gist, as far as the TOS aesthetic goes, but it does things like, you know, actually making those overhead displays do something USEFUL rather than just show static images.

 

[Wingsley]

Question to Shaw:

In the teaser to "Journey to Babel", McCoy mentions something interesting in his rant about the Babel mission:

Sure. A formal reception tonight, a hundred and fourteen delegates aboard for two weeks, thirty two of them ambassadors, (Spock joins them) half of them mad at the other half, and the whole lot touchier than a raw antimatter pile over this Coridan question.

I bring this up because it indicates that the Enterprise, for this Babel mission at least, seems to be carrying a total of 114 passengers in addition to her full crew of 430.

430 + 114 = 544.

Referring to your notion that Federation starships excel in multipurpose spaces, can we assume from the following?:

1: That conversion of spaces (such as the bowling alley, among others) can take place for special occasions, so that guest quarters and additional cargo space can be secured to allow for the full crew (nothing in the ep to indicate anything less than a full crew, and everything to suggest there was a full crew) plus improvised space for Sarek, Gav, and company?

2: Would this not reinforce the FJ notion that Federation starships, such as the Constitution-class Enterprise (TNG-R, "The Naked Now") have a "supercargo" capacity for passengers? (Also reinforced by "The Conscience of the King" and "A Taste of Armageddon")

 

[trekshark]

What I wanted to see in Star Trek 2009. Either of the above exteriors you linked. Uniforms like what we saw (I think the uniforms are the only thing I don't have a problem with). Interior bridge consoles like this: http://vimeo.com/12023417

I really like that look

 

[Shaw]

Question to Shaw:

...

Yes, that is logical.

I would assume that something like Journey to Babel would be a little easier to work around for the crew as they would most likely have had advanced notice. But at the same time I'd think that they are pretty efficient at this type of thing given that they were able to accommodate nearly 150 colonists in This Side of Paradise.