Lower Decks Trailer Analysis

[RAMA]

This is where the majority of problems with CBS' material are at so far for me. Hopefully with a consistent showrunner, Discovery will be able to make the leap into watchable fare. Picard was just dull, I made it through seven episodes thinking it was alright, missed a week due to other things going on in life and just never went back. To this day, I just don't care what happened in the show's last three episodes.

And yet it has been highly praised by media outlets and critics, including for its writing and been nominated for a Hugo and Peabody award, as well as winning multiple Saturns. Does that automatically make it good? No, but the recognition for it's writing and quality are objectively out there. I have been making this point all along. Just because a small fraction of old fans can't deal with new Trek does not mean it's the prevalent view, far from it.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

Just because a small fraction of old fans can't deal with new Trek does not mean it's the prevalent view, far from it.

You might want to reread my post, I didn't say anything about other people. I posted about my feelings towards the current fare. And even though I haven't found CBS' offerings very good to this point, I will give new offerings a chance to impress me.

So you can reply with your horseshit elsewhere.

 

[Kpnuts]

Just because a small fraction of old fans can't deal with new Trek does not mean it's the prevalent view, far from it.

Kindly stop being so condescending and stop thinking that you speak for all Trek fans.

You also need to get it into your head that Trek fans dislike the show for its perceived lack of quality, not because it's "New Trek".

42% fan score on Rotten Tomatoes doesn't suggest it's "only a small minority"

 

[RAMA]

You might want to reread my post, I didn't say anything about other people. I posted about my feelings towards the current fare. And even though I haven't found CBS' offerings very good to this point, I will give new offerings a chance to impress me.

So you can reply with your horseshit elsewhere.

And yet everything I said is true. Certainly, personal opinion is rated highest for every person but again, the objective reaction spanning the gamut for Discovery has been very positive. Your knee jerk, immature reaction changes nothing at all.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

And yet everything I said is true.

Including that 51% fan score on Rotten Tomatoes for Discovery season one, and that 36% fan score for Discovery season two?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s01

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s02

Or are those invalid because they don't tell you what you want to hear?

 

[RAMA]

Kindly stop being so condescending and stop thinking that you speak for all Trek fans.

You also need to get it into your head that Trek fans dislike the show for its perceived lack of quality, not because it's "New Trek".

42% fan score on Rotten Tomatoes doesn't suggest it's "only a small minority"

I've already countered this misconception, the RT ratings are tainted, I've seen the evidence myself. You conveniently forget this. I also have mentioned I kept running track of fan ratings from various sources in the DSC group on FB, and all the ratings there are very good to high, one of the larget sample sizes of those rating sites rates it over 9/10. So again, the DSC detractors, despite being very loud and unreasonable are not even close to a majority, no matter how much you hate it, it will not simply will it true.

Including that 51% fan score on Rotten Tomatoes for Discovery season one, and that 36% fan score for Discovery season two?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s01

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s02

Or are those invalid because they don't tell you what you want to hear?

Everyone by now knows RT is not useful for fan ratings. That's a given. Its laughable you even think this is an argument. I saw a bot add 400 negative votes in one second to RT after the ratings were climbing.

 

[BillJ]

Or that 57% fan score for Picard season one?

 

[BillJ]

I've already countered this misconception, the RT ratings are tainted, I've seen the evidence myself.

Admit it, you just are desperate to sound smart, so you take what agrees with your theories and discard the rest. It has been your MO during your time here.

 

[Kpnuts]

I've already countered this misconception, the RT ratings are tainted, I've seen the evidence myself.

You haven't countered anything. You've provided your opinion, which is worth as much as my opinion.

I also have mentioned I kept running track of fan ratings from various sources in the DSC group on FB, and all the ratings there are very good to high

Of course they're going to be high in an echo chamber like that. Obviously only fans of the show will bother joining a Facebook group about the show, what else do you expect! I like how you call the most popular film critics website "tainted" but a fan page for the show is totally unbiased.

 

[fireproof78]

Can we not with the personal sniping ? I don't want this to be the first thread locked.

 

[BillJ]

Just for shits and giggles, here are the Metacritic fan scores...

Picard season one is at a 6.2 fan score.

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/star-trek-picard/season-1

Discovery is at a 3.8 fan score.

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/star-trek-discovery

 

[Kpnuts]

Anyway, regardless of how popular the show is or isn't, the point I was making is that fans can (and do) dislike the show because they perceive a lack of quality, be it in terms of writing, characters, production. NOT because they're stubborn and not giving "New Trek" a chance. I know the latter misconception makes it easier to dismiss criticism, but it's certainly not a universal truth.

 

[BillJ]

I know the latter misconception makes it easier to dismiss criticism, but it's certainly not a universal truth.

For me, I thought the first two episodes of Discovery were pretty bad all the way around, then they gave me "Context is for Kings" and I really thought the show was on an upturn, then is slowly came back down, crashing and burning for me at the end. Season two had a couple of winners ("New Eden", "If Memory Serves") but was drug down by an inconsistent tone and pace, and its poorly done two-part ending.

 

[RAMA]

Nope, I'm not talking about the ratings IN the group, I'm talking about ratings from various sites that I've kept track of over the course of the season on a weekly basis IN the group. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. When I have the time and I will reproduce some of the results from there, but it'll take time to find and transfer. So no, it's all supported and it'll be cited.

You haven't countered anything. You've provided your opinion, which is worth as much as my opinion.



Of course they're going to be high in an echo chamber like that. Obviously only fans of the show will bother joining a Facebook group about the show, what else do you expect! I like how you call the most popular film critics website "tainted" but a fan page for the show is totally unbiased.

 

[RAMA]

Anyway, regardless of how popular the show is or isn't, the point I was making is that fans can (and do) dislike the show because they perceive a lack of quality, be it in terms of writing, characters, production. NOT because they're stubborn and not giving "New Trek" a chance. I know the latter misconception makes it easier to dismiss criticism, but it's certainly not a universal truth.

And here, you are even further off the track...while fan ratings are as ephemeral as the wind, critics have been very positive with Discovery. I kept another running track of media sites that named it to their top 20 (keep in mind in TNG's day there were 150 shows a year and now there are 450-500) the numbers ran into the dozens.

So again, we can conclude: Your opinion of Discovery/Picard, not so good. Most people, critics, etc very different from your opinion.

I get it.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

When I have the time and I will reproduce some of the results from there, but it'll take time to find and transfer. So no, it's all supported and it'll be cited.

Or, I know this is a crazy thought, you could tell us why you find the current shows worthy of your attention? Tell why you think things work or don't work. It makes for a far more interesting discussion.

Do you even have an opinion of your own?

 

[RAMA]

Or, I know this is a crazy thought, you could tell us why you find the current shows worthy of your attention? Tell why you think things work or don't work. It makes for a far more interesting discussion.

I do that when I post, I also posted reviews (here and elsewhere in the past).

My point is: we all have our personal views and I don't care if others have a different view, I'm pointing out that in the entirety of reaction to a show: from personal opinion (Which we all weight higher for ourselves) to media reaction, to critics, to awards and so on, the idea which some very vocal fans dislike the show is accepted by a given by that minority, and translated into the gatekeeper mode by fans. It's the gospel. If you look objectively at the praise, the crtics, the fan reaction and take it as whole, this self-perpetuating myth (apparently Kpnuts thinks everyone hates it and agrees with him) of Discovery not being a quality show is simply not true. Then they all go to Midnight's Edge and feel joyful in their echo chamber.

A lot of people who like the show don't feel the need to come on and counter the loud Youtube critics and the like. Its the angry minority that are loud.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

My point is: we all have our personal views and I don't care if others have a different view...

You obviously do care, a great deal. Or else you wouldn't be all "I'm gonna pull out muh spreadsheet and prove the show is objectively liked!!!"

CBS doesn't care if I like what they are producing or not, they care about me subscribing. Which I continue to do because my Mother-in-Law gets a great deal of entertainment she likes from the service.

Then they all go to Midnight's Edge and feel joyful in their echo chamber.

I've never watched a Midnight's Edge video. I'm comfortable enough with my own opinions that I don't need people to reinforce them.

 

[RAMA]

I have one example readily in hand here before I go, so I will share it:

Firstly, the critic score (which I trust more anyway) is 72 for Metacritic for Discovery. Second, there are only 142 fan votes on MC and 8435 ratings for ALL of season 1 of DSC on the tainted RT.

TVTime has 13,655 votes for the pilot episode of Discovery alone. The pilot was rated 8.56/10. The series as a whole 9.22/10. As you can see, a much higher and more accurate rating than RT.

Like I said, I have more such examples, and I know what I'm talking about. When I have more time I'll post them.

RAMA

Just for shits and giggles, here are the Metacritic fan scores...

Picard season one is at a 6.2 fan score.

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/star-trek-picard/season-1

Discovery is at a 3.8 fan score.

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/star-trek-discovery

 

[BillJ]

I have one example readily in hand here before I go, so I will share it:

Firstly, the critic score (which I trust more anyway) is 72 for Metacritic for Discovery. Second, there are only 142 fan votes on MC and 8435 ratings for ALL of season 1 of DSC on the tainted RT.

TVTime has 13,655 votes for the pilot episode of Discovery alone. The pilot was rated 8.56/10. The series as a whole 9.22/10. As you can see, a much higher and more accurate rating than RT.

Like I said, I have more such examples, and I know what I'm talking about. When I have more time I'll post them.

RAMA