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Kinda baffled about E2.

captain-brad

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Red Shirt
Why is the 3rd season episode "E2" so universally panned? Most criticisms of episodes I can understand/agree with even if I like that particular episode but this is one where I'm actually totally confused. I read TheGodBen's thread where he rated the entire series and his very low rating of the episode seemed to be followed by other people who felt similarly.

I think it's up there with the best acted, directed and written episodes of the 3rd season. Sure it's a diversion from the main plot, but not by much. Everything that happens has to do with them getting back on course. Twilight and E2 give us fascinating glimpses into what could be. Twilight's alternate future is more horrifying and E2's is more hopeful but not without its own sense of tragedy. I found the Lorian character to be a very relatable one and surprisingly well acted. I felt that his burden was heavy and even his decision to steal from Archer for the success of the mission is exactly the kind of unethical-but-necessary move that Archer himself would have made and already had in an almost identical dilemma! Old T'Pol is a delightful cheat by the writers, a look into what that character may one day become given enough time. She had two great scenes: the tense one with Lorian was great with lines like "you know nothing about being human" and "for them guilt can be a powerful motivator." That's just good dramatic writing with a lot of subtle layers to it. Of course Old T'Pol has a very good idea what being human means. Sometimes it's the ones on the outside looking in that have the best perspective. And then there's the scene where she gives her younger self the advice she never got. Old T'pol ultimately didn't need the advice because she was forced to face her own emotions and her connection to humanity by being stuck on the Enterprise for the rest of her life. But young T'Pol needs the outlook that Old T'Pol offers because she'll eventually get off the ship and will have many chances to run away from her true self and her emotions. Even Trip's 'getting to know you' scene with Lorian is well written and touching.

I don't even agree that E2 is a pointless filler episode: Degra's plan to have them go into the subspace corridor is given a very tense and suspenseful twist because we now know that there are great risks. In that sense the momentum of the Xindi arc really isn't even broken here. Also, it's really the most poignant foreshadowing of the Federation that we get in the entire series by showing a generational ship full of species that have come together, shared lineages and technology and created a diverse community of reliance and trust.

Vanishing Point, Doctor's Orders, A Night in Sick Bay... now that's filler. Those are episodes that make me want to fast forward to the end because they really have almost nothing to do with the overall story and there's no dramatic tension. E2 is light years ahead of those as far as I'm concerned.

Side note: It's interesting that neither Trip or T'Pol mentioned the existence of Lorian as an example that successfully combining human and Vulcan genetics is clearly possible when there was some confusion over that in at the end of Terra Prime. In fact, in E2 Phlox finds out that he himself was responsible for discovering the method to do the combining. When he had to break the news to the grieving couple that the baby was dying because their genetics simply did not match up why didn't he try to do what he always does, which is look on the bright side and say, "hey, myself in another timeline figured it out, I'm sure one day it'll be possible. In fact I'll get to work on it right now and like in most cases I'll have it figured out by, oh, however much time we have left in the episode."
 
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I really don't understand those critical of it either, it's one of my most favorite episodes. I really like your comments and for the most part, they are spot on.
 
I agree. I've always loved that one. I'm surprised to hear everyone else doesn't feel that way.
 
Welcome to our new members! :)

You'll get no argument from me, captain-brad -- "E2" is one of my favorite episodes as well.

I don't know about "universally panned"...perhaps the detractors are simply more vocal about their dissatisfaction than those who enjoyed the episode.

As for the impact of "E2" on "Terra Prime," I think the writers held back on having Phlox deliver the "look on the bright side" information about a human/Vulcan hybrid being possible, in order for Trip to convey it to T'Pol in the last scene, where the emotional impact was greater.

In Season 4, a lot of story threads presented in Season 3 weren't followed through, probably because the staff was under pressure to cram as many high-concept elements into the S4 stories as possible. T'Pol being advised by Old T'Pol to listen to her heart, T'Les's challenge to T'Pol in "Home" about what would happen if she and Trip were to have hybrid children, Emory Erickson telling Trip in "Daedalus" that he doesn't know what it's like to lose a son.

I assume Starfleet sent someone to help the Illyrian ship with the stolen warp coil ("Damage"), but it would have been nice to throw in a line of dialogue somewhere to that effect. Or to find out the fate of Lorian's Enterprise, which might have survived, judging by Archer and T'Pol's talk at the end of "E2." If the show had known they'd be on the air for 3 more seasons, I like to think these dangling plot elements would have been addressed.
 
I like to think these dangling plot elements would have been addressed.
Well there is some pretty good Fan Fic out there that addresses those dangling elements in a credible way. ;)

However, I would love to see them addressed in an official book at some point in the near future.
 
I love this show. Why they have such criticism about it.. Maybe defferent people have different appetite...
 
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I loved that episode, too and also wondered why they didn't mention Lorian... But maybe they eventually did so that was the reason Phlox analyzed cloning technique and finally found a mistake.
 
I like e2, too.
Best part: The crew remembered.
-- The scene with Trip and Lorian was sweet.
-- Trip talking about the wedding was so cute. Too bad T'Pol was so far off her rocker she wouldn't even listen to her older -- and wiser -- self.
-- In an alternate universe T'Pol trusted Trip.
-- Archer's confrontation with Lorian in the brig was a good one (i.e.: Archer wasn't being a jerk).
-- Malcolm learns he doesn't find a mate in the past and takes the hopeful step so it won't happen in his own timeline.
-- I like that Karyn Archer refused to obey Lorian's orders to disable the ship.
 
One of my favorite parts is the initial meeting between the E2 crew representatives and Archer and T'Pol, when Lorian refers to T'Pol as "Mother". T'Pol's shocked, "I beg your pardon" is perfect. I love off balance T'Pol.
 
My favorite part of E2 is that short conversation Archer has with Karyn. She tells him just a little bit about his wife, and there's this teeny tiny pause before he immediately changes the subject, like a door slamming in his mind. I always found it fascinating that he has a whole life and family that gets erased. And for some reason, I love Lorian.
 
Welcome to our new members! :)

You'll get no argument from me, captain-brad -- "E2" is one of my favorite episodes as well.

I don't know about "universally panned"...perhaps the detractors are simply more vocal about their dissatisfaction than those who enjoyed the episode.

As for the impact of "E2" on "Terra Prime," I think the writers held back on having Phlox deliver the "look on the bright side" information about a human/Vulcan hybrid being possible, in order for Trip to convey it to T'Pol in the last scene, where the emotional impact was greater.

In Season 4, a lot of story threads presented in Season 3 weren't followed through, probably because the staff was under pressure to cram as many high-concept elements into the S4 stories as possible. T'Pol being advised by Old T'Pol to listen to her heart, T'Les's challenge to T'Pol in "Home" about what would happen if she and Trip were to have hybrid children, Emory Erickson telling Trip in "Daedalus" that he doesn't know what it's like to lose a son.

I assume Starfleet sent someone to help the Illyrian ship with the stolen warp coil ("Damage"), but it would have been nice to throw in a line of dialogue somewhere to that effect. Or to find out the fate of Lorian's Enterprise, which might have survived, judging by Archer and T'Pol's talk at the end of "E2." If the show had known they'd be on the air for 3 more seasons, I like to think these dangling plot elements would have been addressed.

I couldn't have said it better myself. :techman:
 
I would have to agree, E2 episode was pretty good. Good alternate story line, good acting and freshened up the run of eps before that, with this story and new actors. I liked it when young and old tpol met, as well as Archer and older Tpol met. awesome.
 
I really like "E2" as well--there are really a lot of great things about it. My favorite is the Lorian/Trip scene in engineering.
 
I person doing a review and a few supportive comments is far from universal. While I liked the TheGodBen's thread he likes some episodes that I hate and he hates some episodes that I like.

I like E2.
 
for pure trek scifi, the E2 ship had some cool battle scars, modifications, but still was a worn out ship as well. That was a good element to the show.
 
E2 is a very good episode, no doubt and like most of ENT's stuff its under rated.
 
I don't think that this episode is universally panned. A lot of people disagree with that and love the episode. As usual the haters are more vocal. A lot of people are apt to talk a lot about stuff they hate than what they love. I've never really understood or felt that way before about anything.
 
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