JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Together

[BillJ]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Along those same lines, the tropes behind Star Wars have a greater appeal, I think. The good guys are truly good, the bad guys are truly bad, and the people in the middle keep the lines between them very clearly marked.

Star Trek is more about humanity's wheelings and dealings 300 years from now, in a more utopian future. Kids can't really play with that on the same level that they can an astromech droid, Darth Vader, and a lightsaber duel with Luke. I mean, there's not really much of a comparison. Look at the figures:

"Ooh, here's Captain Picard in command jacket, with cup of earl gray tea, PADD, and phaser."

vs.

"The Lord Vader, with black biosuit, and lightsaber. Use his force wielding action to crush your enemies and assure victory for the Empire!"

The marketing is completely different. While it was more kid focused in the 60s and 70s, modern Trek merch seems to be more geared toward adults who want to have keepsakes of their childhood, while Star Wars kind of says "this IS your childhood! Buy these and relive it again!"

I'm not saying that's every case, but it kind of feels that way. Star Trek is the optimist in you that likes to see humanity prosper and prove that we get better as a species, overcoming hunger, waste, want, and greed. Star Wars is the kid in you that says "let's force choke that rebel soldier and cut off Luke's arm again! Then we'll invade the Hoth Rebel base with our AT-ATs!"

No contest.

I mean, I saw a yard sale today with Star Wars figures, and my first thought was "ooh! I want to own these! I have to buy them!" I resisted, of course, because I have no money, but the desire was there because of the way the packages were made, the characters inside, I wanted to be a part of the story. When I see Star Trek figures, I don't have that same thought. Instead, it's more like "I could get this. I might like to have that on my desk," but the kid in me isn't interested as much. Again, that may be marketing technique.

That being said, I think the new Trek movies have more of a sci-fi/fantasy adventure flavor, and if the merchandising were done right, could appeal more to kids, but I don't know if that's the direction they want to go. I'm all for it, but then I like Star Trek and Star Wars.

I think you hit it on the head. Star Wars is simply more fun and varied than Trek. It is something kids can sink their imaginations into.

 

[ALF]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

I think who ever is responsible for that awful video game (released alongside Into Darkness and irritatingly simply called Star Trek :rolleyes) should get two solid slaps across the face. It proves beyond a doubt that they don't have their act together.... what a fucking trainwreck of an interactive experience. I could only stand it for 20 minutes and threw the disc across the room. Luckily it retailed for only $4 because this was months after it was revealed by all to be a Royal Vulcan Turd.

That game should have been a huge ambition: bring the sandbox format to Star Trek, kinda like STO. Fly ships to different planets, explore, beam up/down anywhere, etc. Hell, they did it 25 years ago with the 25th Anniversary Game! With 16 bit graphics. Why the fuck can't they do that here? No - it's going to be an insipid 1st person shooter that barely distinguishes from the many, many better offerings of the same genre. Two slaps across the face is getting off too light.

One example of how shit like that does not raise confidence that Viacom could do anything in a multiverse of TV series', games, animated and otherwise. Other than a couple of well written tie-in graphic novels I haven't seen anything worth sinking some $$$ into.

But I do realize the problem - Trek is more painted into a corner than Star Wars is. In many ways, the upcoming slew of Wars films are a reboot of sorts as they go into the future from the established OT and create interesting new things. When Trek tries to branch out we get retreads and we are bogged down by Starfleet, the Prime Directive, All The Same Evils in the Universe, Earth and The United States of America, etc. not to mention the "crazy guy wants to destroy the Earth for revenge" trope which has been absolutely beaten into micro-smithereens.

(Disclaimer: not hating on the new films, they are fine. But Trek works better on TV, IMHO. The exploration of many, many new worlds and the trap-of-the-week compliments the series.)

Trek deserves to be a huge thing like Marvel and Star Wars and I believe that it can... but under the current regime, I don't see it happening. It is a major, major fuck-up of the highest order that we don't have a miniseries or animated series to keep us occupied between the frustrating 4 year waits between Trek films.

 

[TheVortaKeevan]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

I never did like the destruction of Romulus and than the destruction or Vulcan in the alternate reality.

 

[Kemaiku]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Romulus is only destroyed in the prime timeline, for the time being it still survives in the alternate universe and might well be saved in time.

Vulcan is the only world to be lost in the new one and lets face it, they were the most boring bunch of the entire galaxy so it's little loss.

 

[BillJ]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

What kid isn't dying to play with his "Q in judge robe" action figure?!

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Gen...1440960234&sr=8-3&keywords=q+star+trek+figure

 

[Amaris]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Along those same lines, the tropes behind Star Wars have a greater appeal, I think. The good guys are truly good, the bad guys are truly bad, and the people in the middle keep the lines between them very clearly marked.

Star Trek is more about humanity's wheelings and dealings 300 years from now, in a more utopian future. Kids can't really play with that on the same level that they can an astromech droid, Darth Vader, and a lightsaber duel with Luke. I mean, there's not really much of a comparison. Look at the figures:

"Ooh, here's Captain Picard in command jacket, with cup of earl gray tea, PADD, and phaser."

vs.

"The Lord Vader, with black biosuit, and lightsaber. Use his force wielding action to crush your enemies and assure victory for the Empire!"

The marketing is completely different. While it was more kid focused in the 60s and 70s, modern Trek merch seems to be more geared toward adults who want to have keepsakes of their childhood, while Star Wars kind of says "this IS your childhood! Buy these and relive it again!"

I'm not saying that's every case, but it kind of feels that way. Star Trek is the optimist in you that likes to see humanity prosper and prove that we get better as a species, overcoming hunger, waste, want, and greed. Star Wars is the kid in you that says "let's force choke that rebel soldier and cut off Luke's arm again! Then we'll invade the Hoth Rebel base with our AT-ATs!"

No contest.

I mean, I saw a yard sale today with Star Wars figures, and my first thought was "ooh! I want to own these! I have to buy them!" I resisted, of course, because I have no money, but the desire was there because of the way the packages were made, the characters inside, I wanted to be a part of the story. When I see Star Trek figures, I don't have that same thought. Instead, it's more like "I could get this. I might like to have that on my desk," but the kid in me isn't interested as much. Again, that may be marketing technique.

That being said, I think the new Trek movies have more of a sci-fi/fantasy adventure flavor, and if the merchandising were done right, could appeal more to kids, but I don't know if that's the direction they want to go. I'm all for it, but then I like Star Trek and Star Wars.

I think you hit it on the head. Star Wars is simply more fun and varied than Trek. It is something kids can sink their imaginations into.

Keeping what we've said here in mind, look at this, and tell me this isn't how Star Wars rakes in enough cash to make Bill Gates blush:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=78&v=eOv3Qi7Vr5g[/yt]

THIS. THIS is how it's done!

 

[BillJ]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Keeping what we've said here in mind, look at this, and tell me this isn't how Star Wars rakes in enough cash to make Bill Gates blush:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=78&v=eOv3Qi7Vr5g[/yt]

THIS. THIS is how it's done!

I think part of the problem is Star Wars took over Trek's mantle of being big, brash and fun. We grew up and Star Trek grew up with us. Now we're cranky old men and Star Trek is mostly a cranky old man and audiences notice it.

There's no way I would've been a fan of Trek if my first exposure had been the spinoffs.

 

[Amaris]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Agreed wholeheartedly. I was introduced to Star Trek by my mother, when I was 4 years old. This was back in 1984, when the only Trek on the air was the original series. I instantly fell in love with it. Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Doctor McCoy, Scotty, they were my heroes.

When Star Trek The Next Generation came along a few years later, I was already starting to grow up, and while I didn't quite grasp everything going on those first few seasons, the show grew on me quickly. I knew Captain Picard was a peaceful man, I knew Commander Riker liked action, and I knew Mr. Data was the most logical of the bunch.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine didn't keep me, and I ignored Voyager. By the time Enterprise came along, I was in my early 20s, and had lost a lot of the feel for Trek. That would remain until 2009, when I watched the Abrams films, and next thing you know, I thought I was a kid again, watching the original series, and it brought back some powerful nostalgia.

Star Wars, on the other hand, has never left my childhood. I love it to this day, because it's still fun, and exciting as it ever was.

Of course, I do have a theory. I think that the new Star Treks have taken some advice from Star Wars in how to have fun and make experiences memorable. At the same time, I think the SW prequel movies took some advice from Star Trek and became stolid, faux adult themed films that no one really cared about. I mean, who gives a shit about taxation in the Galactic Senate? Fuck that, where's Darth Fucking Vader?

Probably sounds weird, but it just looks that way to me. Star Wars isn't real, I know it isn't real. Star Trek isn't real, I know it isn't real. The difference is that the people behind Star Wars knows it isn't real, but I think the fans for Star Trek want it to be so real that they cannot abide the level of fun and popcorn popularity the new films have created.

 

[ALF]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Well you could make an argument that Star Wars is more of an escape from reality than Star Trek. Trek exists in our collective not-so-distant future, whereas Star Wars was a long time ago. In a galaxy far, far away. You know how it goes...

Trek makes sure we have a grounded sense of where things are in our own reality, i.e. everywhere they explore has a relative position/relationship to Earth, whereas Wars never, ever has to worry about any such connection to our real world.

They both provide engrossing sci-fi escapism. I'm still holding out hope that someone will "figure it out" between Star Trek: Beyond and Star Trek 4 (14) and put an animated series into action - ideally a streaming platform like Netflix which would allow them to take some risks. It truly can be done. It's not impossible. God, a TNG-era spinoff in the JJverse, it's almost too easy.

 

[BillJ]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Of course, I do have a theory. I think that the new Star Treks have taken some advice from Star Wars in how to have fun and make experiences memorable. At the same time, I think the SW prequel movies took some advice from Star Trek and became stolid, faux adult themed films that no one really cared about. I mean, who gives a shit about taxation in the Galactic Senate? Fuck that, where's Darth Fucking Vader?

I tend to agree that Lucas thought his audience wanted the universe to grow up with them. Which I think was a mistake. It is the same mistake Paramount and Rick Berman made.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

What kid isn't dying to play with his "Q in judge robe" action figure?!

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Gen...1440960234&sr=8-3&keywords=q+star+trek+figure

I had that figure when I was a kid!

 

[BillJ]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

What kid isn't dying to play with his "Q in judge robe" action figure?!

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Gen...1440960234&sr=8-3&keywords=q+star+trek+figure

I had that figure when I was a kid!

Did you have hours of fun judging Picard and his crew?

 

[Amaris]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Of course, I do have a theory. I think that the new Star Treks have taken some advice from Star Wars in how to have fun and make experiences memorable. At the same time, I think the SW prequel movies took some advice from Star Trek and became stolid, faux adult themed films that no one really cared about. I mean, who gives a shit about taxation in the Galactic Senate? Fuck that, where's Darth Fucking Vader?

I tend to agree that Lucas thought his audience wanted the universe to grow up with them. Which I think was a mistake. It is the same mistake Paramount and Rick Berman made.

Indeed, which is why I love the new movies as much as I do. When I look back, there's an underlying theme in all of the Trek films I love the most. For those who don't know, my very favorite films are ST09, STID, STV, STIV, and then down the scale from there. What elements do these films have in common? Moments of silliness, big action, and strong character interaction. Most of all, they're fun.

If I want the McNeil/Lehrer News Hour in space, I can pick TNG, or VOY. That's not to say I don't like TNG or VOY, I love TNG, and VOY is... um... anyway, I take them for what they are, and as an adult I enjoy them, but when I want to feel like a kid again, letting my imagination run wild, it's TOS, and the new Trek films.

It may also be why I enjoy seasons one and two of TNG the most. While the characters are still growing, and there are some serious missteps, the show feels more fun than it became later on. Or, to put it another way:

"What was it? I mean, was it personal, or what? Because I didn't show you my car?"

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

What kid isn't dying to play with his "Q in judge robe" action figure?!

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Gen...1440960234&sr=8-3&keywords=q+star+trek+figure

I had that figure when I was a kid!

Did you have hours of fun judging Picard and his crew?

Sure did!

 

[BillJ]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

I had that figure when I was a kid!

Did you have hours of fun judging Picard and his crew?

Sure did!

 

[wulfio]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

You should read a comic book, because continuity/canon means about 0 in marvel/dc/image/etc. What's happening in the movies has very little to do with what's happening in the comic books other than loose adaptations. And they certainly haven't discontinued comic books, or retconned anything, because of their movie universe's.

Well Marvel gave Spidey organic webbing for a time and cancelled the Fantastic Four but those may be outliers.

What does that prove?

 

[suarezguy]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

^It was very likely in reaction to the movie version being released, in that case to spite it rather than promote or be promoted by it.

Of course, I do have a theory. I think that the new Star Treks have taken some advice from Star Wars in how to have fun and make experiences memorable. At the same time, I think the SW prequel movies took some advice from Star Trek and became stolid, faux adult themed films that no one really cared about. I mean, who gives a shit about taxation in the Galactic Senate? Fuck that, where's Darth Fucking Vader?

Outside of remakes the filmmakers will probably want to do something pretty different in both plot and tone, sequels that try to redo the same basic story tend to be badly received.

Incidentally, the Amazing Spider-Man film reboot is an interesting example of a film series basically trying to not grow up with the viewers and the viewers become less involved, I think it shows you can redo something too early and/or too often.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

I think Abrams was basically right. He was brought it to rejuvenate the franchise, to make it the hot thing for a new generation, but in the end Paramount wussed out, because they'd rather sell tchotchkes to a small and diminishing sub-niche market. If this was a golden goose analogy, there would be no golden goose, because Paramount ate the egg.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Of course, I do have a theory. I think that the new Star Treks have taken some advice from Star Wars in how to have fun and make experiences memorable. At the same time, I think the SW prequel movies took some advice from Star Trek and became stolid, faux adult themed films that no one really cared about. I mean, who gives a shit about taxation in the Galactic Senate? Fuck that, where's Darth Fucking Vader?

I tend to agree that Lucas thought his audience wanted the universe to grow up with them. Which I think was a mistake. It is the same mistake Paramount and Rick Berman made.

And yet it arguably worked for Harry Potter. Maybe because it hooked its audience much younger?

(Says the guy who was six or seven when TOS debuted.)

 

[wulfio]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

^It was very likely in reaction to the movie version being released, in that case to spite it rather than promote or be promoted by it.

Fantastic Four was one of the worst selling comics. I believe it was grossing around 30k annually when it was cancelled. Even if that number is wrong, it's still a fact that F4 was not selling. Nobody continues to publish something that doesn't sell. And comics are always discontinued, and recontinued at later dates. Characters are killed off, and resurrected all the time.

That is why Marvel cancelled F4. It has nothing to do with the movies. And furthermore, some kind of petty childish gesture is not what I mean by canon in the comics having any bearing on the cinematic universe and vice versa.

JJ wanted to retcon Star Trek to make every medium work within the same canon just like they're doing with Star Wars. The comic universes are not retconning their trades, or their video games to to one unified canon spread across several mediums.

Comics is not at all a comparison to what JJ wanted to do with Star Trek, or what Disney is currently doing with Star Wars.

In case you are unaware what canon means. Canon in fiction is what is accepted as official story points in its respective universe. For example, Star Wars original trilogy, prequel trilogy, and clone wars tv show, along with everything released by Disney/Lucasfilm since September 2014 is official storyline in the Star Wars universe. Grand Admiral Thrawn, KotoR, and fan fiction is not official story in the Star Wars universe.

How that doesn't apply in comics, is that there is a crap ton of stuff, super crazy stuff that is put out every year int he comic world, that does not effect, and is not effected by movie universes. They will never force the comics to mirror, or correlate to the movies/tv shows, and vice versa. Hell DC doesn't even do unified canon in their tv/movie universes, let alone comics.

To be honest, i think pouting that CBS wouldn't retcon prime universe so they could develop a single unified canon is a bit childish. Disney wanting to do it is fine, but being a baby about someone not wanting to do it is unnecessary. Marvel/DC prove that we can enjoy new stories, make other new stories that have nothing to do with each other, and still keep our old ones. Having that "official canon" stamp doesn't make going forward any easier or legitimate.