Poll Is age a factor in which season you prefer?

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

This poll hasn't really yielded the kinds of data that I anticipated.

The lack of any significant involvement of the Jurati Borg in a season in which the Borg (again, sigh) play a prominent role as an antagonist is one of the points against the season for me.

Given the maneuvers the E-D ends up engaging in, frankly it would have made a lot more sense for them to take the Defiant, especially since it was also established as being right there.

I didn't mind the Juratti-Borg not being part of S3, but that they weren't even name dropped is kind of annoying. If they couldn't be brought in, because budget, that's fine. They could have at least been considered, only to decide it's too risky. What if prime Queen and Juratti Queen join forces?

 

[Firebird]

This poll hasn't really yielded the kinds of data that I anticipated.

I gotta admit I'm getting a kick out of season 1 having the edge in both age groups.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I gotta admit I'm getting a kick out of season 1 having the edge in both age groups.

Me too!

 

[DonIago]

I didn't mind the Juratti-Borg not being part of S3, but that they weren't even name dropped is kind of annoying. If they couldn't be brought in, because budget, that's fine. They could have at least been considered, only to decide it's too risky. What if prime Queen and Juratti Queen join forces?

I thought they were mentioned in, like, a single line in one episode? I seem to recall being surprised that they even got that name-drop?

I would have found it more meaningful for the Jurati Borg to oppose the others as having become obsolete in their thinking.

Either way, a chunk of what annoyed me about S3 was how much of the prior seasons it entirely ignored or downplayed to the point that it might as well have ignored them. Blink and Laris didn't appear at all.

I gotta admit I'm getting a kick out of season 1 having the edge in both age groups.

I like that, but I've been deeply surprised that almost all of the responses are from people 35+; I really thought this board was a bit more age-diverse than that.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

I thought they were mentioned in, like, a single line in one episode

Yep. Brief, but it was there. I want to say Shaw was the one who mentioned them.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I thought they were mentioned in, like, a single line in one episode? I seem to recall being surprised that they even got that name-drop?

I would have found it more meaningful for the Jurati Borg to oppose the others as having become obsolete in their thinking.

Either way, a chunk of what annoyed me about S3 was how much of the prior seasons it entirely ignored or downplayed to the point that it might as well have ignored them. Blink and Laris didn't appear at all.

I like that, but I've been deeply surprised that almost all of the responses are from people 35+; I really thought this board was a bit more age-diverse than that.

I think there is some reference to S2, but in the last 2 episodes where the Borg threat is confirmed, nothing at all about Juratti-Borg if I remember right.

Some vocal fans didn't like S1-2, so Matallas reworked PIC S3 into TNG S8.

 

[fireproof78]

Yep. Brief, but it was there. I want to say Shaw was the one who mentioned them.

Shaw just says "forget that weird shit that occurred. The real Borg are still out there." Which is just aggravating on many levels.

 

[DonIago]

I think there is some reference to S2, but in the last 2 episodes where the Borg threat is confirmed, nothing at all about Juratti-Borg if I remember right.

Some vocal fans didn't like S1-2, so Matallas reworked PIC S3 into TNG S8.

Well, it begins in S2 after the first few episodes (maybe most noticeably when Elnor gets killed before the bulk of the season has even really started). By the end of that season many of the protagonists to that point have been sidelined in one way or another.

One wonders what Matalas might have done if he hadn't had input into S2 and was starting S3 with the TNG Reunion story but with the S1 and S2 characters still fully engaged with Picard.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Shaw just says "forget that weird shit that occurred. The real Borg are still out there." Which is just aggravating on many levels.

I actually loved this, because S2 was wacked out bonkers, and it's very fitting to Shaw's character with zero patience for wacked out BS. The mistake, in my opinion, was for Juratti-Borg to not factor into the final 2 episodes.

 

[DonIago]

Shaw just says "forget that weird shit that occurred. The real Borg are still out there." Which is just aggravating on many levels.

He totally should have looked directly into the camera and then winked after saying that line.

As Basil Exposition from Austin Powers might have said: "I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself."

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Well, it begins in S2 after the first few episodes (maybe most noticeably when Elnor gets killed before the bulk of the season has even really started). By the end of that season many of the protagonists to that point have been sidelined in one way or another.

One wonders what Matalas might have done if he hadn't had input into S2 and was starting S3 with the TNG Reunion story but with the S1 and S2 characters still fully engaged with Picard.

I was less addressing characters being dumped. I was more noting that S1-2 are just completely ignored in S3 aside from a line of dialogue from Shaw, the Picard corpse, and Soong's 2nd golem becoming Data reborn. Thart was about it.

 

[fireproof78]

I actually loved this, because S2 was wacked out bonkers, and it's very fitting to Shaw's character with zero patience for wacked out BS. The mistake, in my opinion, was for Juratti-Borg to not factor into the final 2 episodes.

The mistake was bringing the Borg back at all. Basically, Admiral Janeway's sacrifice and undoing the lives of millions, if not billions, to bring a death blow to the Borg, was for naught, and cost lives and ships as the Queen attempts to reassert power right at Earth's doorstep.

 

[DonIago]

I never really thought of Admiral Janeway's sacrifice as a death blow to the Borg, though definitely a critical hit. I was very satisfied with how the Destiny series of novels dealt with them though, and while I kind of enjoyed the xB storyline (and the reappearance of Hugh!) in S1 until that got tossed out the airlock (sigh), and even kind of enjoyed the Borg Queen herself in S2, the Borg as a menace in general was just so overdone. To have them show up in S3, and especially have the rogue Changelings working with them (ergh...), while not mentioning either of the more interesting branches of Borg we'd seen in the last two seasons, felt like going for the lowest of the low-hanging fruit.

I suspect my opinion of S3 would be higher if the resolution of the Borg had involved the Jurati Borg and/or the xBs in some manner. Just imagine, continuity!!!

It almost makes me wonder how TNG and VOY and PIC might have evolved if the Borg had never really worked out as an antagonist.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The mistake was bringing the Borg back at all. Basically, Admiral Janeway's sacrifice and undoing the lives of millions, if not billions, to bring a death blow to the Borg, was for naught, and cost lives and ships as the Queen attempts to reassert power right at Earth's doorstep.

I have a different take. I think what we saw was that the Voyager crew succeeded in defeating the Borg as a collective, and the Queen had survived, but in isolation on one super-cube. She came to Earth to start a new collective by assimilating down on the genetic level.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I never really thought of Admiral Janeway's sacrifice as a death blow to the Borg, though definitely a critical hit. I was very satisfied with how the Destiny series of novels dealt with them though, and while I kind of enjoyed the xB storyline (and the reappearance of Hugh!) in S1 until that got tossed out the airlock (sigh), and even kind of enjoyed the Borg Queen herself in S2, the Borg as a menace in general was just so overdone. To have them show up in S3, and especially have the rogue Changelings working with them (ergh...), while not mentioning either of the more interesting branches of Borg we'd seen in the last two seasons, felt like going for the lowest of the low-hanging fruit.

It almost makes me wonder how TNG and VOY and PIC might have evolved if the Borg had never really worked out as an antagonist.

I'm always down for more Borg stories, but I do agree that they are kind of played out. Where the Borg can go from here is all of the various Borg ships and planets that survived the pathogen from "Endgame" can now be mini-collectives. The prime-Queen is gone, but she survived as the Juratti-Queen and her voluntary mini-collective.

 

[DonIago]

Given how badly S3 dropped the ball, I think I might be okay if there's no further featuring of the Borg in any capacity; I'm no longer sure I trust TPTB to handle them in any meaningful capacity.

 

[fireproof78]

I have a different take. I think what we saw was that the Voyager crew succeeded in defeating the Borg as a collective, and the Queen had survived, but in isolation on one super-cube. She came to Earth to start a new collective by assimilating down on the genetic level.

That she survives at all is becoming laughable.

Picard snaps the neck? No.

Janeway blows them up? No.

Janeway goes back in time and destroys the unicomplex? No.

It becomes unintentionally funny and sad all at once.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

That she survives at all is becoming laughable.

Picard snaps the neck? No.

Janeway blows them up? No.

Janeway goes back in time and destroys the unicomplex? No.

It becomes unintentionally funny and sad all at once.

I actually would like to address this. I like to think of the Queen as a mix of biology, technology, and digital ascension. From the Borg Collective's point of view: the Queen's cube is destroyed near Earth, her sphere goes back in time, and then nothing changed. She would still exist within the collective digitally. In VOY "Dark Frontier," she rebuilds her body to interact with Seven. Her ship is destroyed at the end of the tele-movie. In "Unimatrix Zero," she's rebuilt once more, wanting to get personal with what's going on. At the end of part 2, she's physically alive and well. This explains why in "Endgame," she lowers out of the ceiling whole, no need to rebuild this time. By tele-movie's end, she's killed - again, for good this time? We don't know. Picard's final episodes made it clear she digitally survived and was rebuilt yet again. This time, there's reason to believe she's gone for good. Well, except she still lives as an alternate-tiimeline counterpart who was the same person for centuries or millennia up until running into the Confederation in the mid to late 24th century.

What do you think of this?

 

[fireproof78]

I actually would like to address this. I like to think of the Queen as a mix of biology, technology, and digital ascension. From the Borg Collective's point of view: the Queen's cube is destroyed near Earth, her sphere goes back in time, and then nothing changed. She would still exist within the collective digitally. In VOY "Dark Frontier," she rebuilds her body to interact with Seven. Her ship is destroyed at the end of the tele-movie. In "Unimatrix Zero," she's rebuilt once more, wanting to get personal with what's going on. At the end of part 2, she's physically alive and well. This explains why in "Endgame," she lowers out of the ceiling whole, no need to rebuild this time. By tele-movie's end, she's killed - again, for good this time? We don't know. Picard's final episodes made it clear she digitally survived and was rebuilt yet again. This time, there's reason to believe she's gone for good. Well, except she still lives as an alternate-tiimeline counterpart who was the same person for centuries or millennia up until running into the Confederation in the mid to late 24th century.

What do you think of this?

It makes sense in terms of technology and presentation in the films.

Thematically it is deeply unsatisfying.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

It makes sense in terms of technology and presentation in the films.

Thematically it is deeply unsatisfying.

Why is it thematically deeply unsatisfying? I love how the Borg Queen had this slasher movie villain "can't be killed" thing going. That said, I'd like to read your POV.