How to resolve 6 Voyager Inconsistencies in 85 seconds

[Locutus of Bored]

Regarding "THIRTY DAYS", it was clear Tom wasn't allowed visitors because Harry had to practically beg Janeway to get 5 minutes with him.

Fair enough. Still not quite as bad as the mental torture tiny windowless cell with no contact they use today, but certainly cruel and unusual and likely illegal by Starfleet standards. It might be more torture but I'm sure Neelix dropped off some of the bare bones meals and spoke to Paris.

Regarding "DEADLOCK", the intact, Vidiian infested Voyager couldn't beam supplies and stuff over to the battered one because the only way across either ship was that rift on deck 15. That's why Harry went through it instead of just grabbing the baby and beaming over. So it still defies belief the ship is in pristine condition the very next episode.

They have site-to-site transporters that can beam things internally through the ship, so there's no reason why they couldn't beam things through the rift on Deck 15. It's not like the rift has to be the size of a shuttle to fit a transporter energy beam through it.

I know they didn't actually do this or mention this on the show, but if you suspend your disbelief a little you can imagine it was going on in the background, because that would be the smart thing to do, and would at least partially explain why the ship was back to being in tip-top shape by the next episode and had plenty of antimatter stores again.

 

[Oddish]

Paris wasn't in "solitary confinement" in the modern sense. The cell has an open front and a fellow security officer sitting right there who would know Tom and talk to him. And it never said he was restricted from having visitors that I can recall. The "bread and water only" rations were ridiculous.

It wasn't "bread and water", that's just what Tom called it. Neelix said "basic nutrition only", which meant Tom was presumably provided with the 2000 or so calories he needed, with the appropriate amounts of protein, fats, and carbs, and all required vitamins, minerals, and fiber. He probably ate healthier than he did when he wasn't in the brig.

Then the Hirogen takeover of the ship would have one positive side effect, which is the end of the holodeck energy supply issues, because they obviously put some of there powerful ancient energy sources to work to power the full ship-wide holographic emitters.

Another perfectly good explanation for the solving of Voyager's power problems. All they had to do was tell us.

Harry Kim never got promoted because he was sadly already invaluable in the operations position he was at without being promoted, and Voyager was in a sort of promotional stasis (with a few exceptions) since they were stranded in the middle of nowhere.

I torpedoed that one a long time ago. Ben Sisko, Kira Nerys, Julian Bashir, Jadzia Dax, Tuvok, Tom Paris, Geordi LaForge, Deanna Troi. They all had their rank increased without changing jobs. If they could, Harry could.

 

[Farscape One]

Fair enough. Still not quite as bad as the mental torture tiny windowless cell with no contact they use today, but certainly cruel and unusual and likely illegal by Starfleet standards. It might be more torture but I'm sure Neelix dropped off some of the bare bones meals and spoke to Paris.

They have site-to-site transporters that can beam things internally through the ship, so there's no reason why they couldn't beam things through the rift on Deck 15. It's not like the rift has to be the size of a shuttle to fit a transporter energy beam through it.

I know they didn't actually do this or mention this on the show, but if you suspend your disbelief a little you can imagine it was going on in the background, because that would be the smart thing to do, and would at least partially explain why the ship was back to being in tip-top shape by the next episode and had plenty of antimatter stores again.

According to Chakotay, the Vidiians had 'everything below Deck 5, and I don't know how much longer we can keep them from the bridge."

Even if site-to-site would work, there was nobody alive or unharvested to actually do this. We saw the Vidiians pick apart running crewmembers one by one.

And they definitely didn't have time to gather supplies and send them over.

Plus, Torres (not sure which version) said they couldn't bring over, to either side, more than a few people without both ships being destroyed. Whether that's just in terms of actual people or weight was never said, but either way, there isn't enough weight or amount of items that can be sent through that would do much for repairing.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

It wasn't "bread and water", that's just what Tom called it.

That was a figure of speech to refer to his basic rations.

I torpedoed that one a long time ago. Ben Sisko, Kira Nerys, Julian Bashir, Jadzia Dax, Tuvok, Tom Paris, Geordi LaForge, Deanna Troi. They all had their rank increased without changing jobs. If they could, Harry could.

With the exception of Tuvok and Paris, none of them were on a lone ship 70,000 light years from home, which is what produced the rank stasis situation I described. It would take exceptional performance to get bumped up in rank in that environment. I think Harry deserved it, but with the "notable exceptions" I mentioned (Tuvok and Paris), everyone was basically on hold.

Paris at the very least, also became a nurse / field medic, went undercover as a malcontent to infiltrate the Kazon and find out who the mole on Voyager was, constructed a high speed runabout equivalent shuttlecraft that was better than anything in Starfleet at the time, and saved the ship and crew when they were stranded by the Kazon.

Tuvok took command of the ship for a month and a half and came up with an on-the-fly method of beaming over a cure for Janeway and Chakotay's space virus while simultaneously taking out their Vidian pursuers with an antimatter pod. He also did other stuff.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

According to Chakotay, the Vidiians had 'everything below Deck 5, and I don't know how much longer we can keep them from the bridge."

Even if site-to-site would work, there was nobody alive or unharvested to actually do this. We saw the Vidiians pick apart running crewmembers one by one.

And they definitely didn't have time to gather supplies and send them over.

Plus, Torres (not sure which version) said they couldn't bring over, to either side, more than a few people without both ships being destroyed. Whether that's just in terms of actual people or weight was never said, but either way, there isn't enough weight or amount of items that can be sent through that would do much for repairing.

They were self-destructing anyway, so the mass imbalance issue was rather moot at that point.

I'm sticking with an engineer or operations officer running to the cargo bay and mass beaming as many supplies as they could in the last moments.

 

[Lynx]

I hated pretty much everything involving Carey in that series, from B'Elanna getting rewarded for ASSAULTING him, to him getting TURNED INTO A FRICKIN' REDSHIRT within days of Voyager getting home.

Ironically, it took as much from B'Elanna as it did from Carey, in terms of potential character development. If Janeway had thrown her in the brig and subsequently made her EARN that chief engineer slot, she could have been a model of character development. Look at Nog and Ro Laren, who also came from troubled backgrounds.

Here I totally agree. I never liked how B'Elanna got away with almost killing Carey. It would have been better if this had been solved over a longer period where B'Elanna had worked hard and won the respect of Carey and the others, maybe got a promotion to Chief Engineer at the end of the season.

And Carey was incredibly mistreated by the writers. A good character who deserved more than to be wasted the way he was.

I n my "how to resolve Voyager inconsistencies", he was not. Harry had been promoted offscreen. The showrunners still get their pathetic, puerile "revenge" on Garrett Wang for... well, whatever the hell he did to offend them; they just don't insult our intelligence in the process.

I can accept that solution.

Then they should have shot a later scene on the Titan, with Riker.

RIKER: "Says here you play the clarinet and the sax. You ever do any jazz?"
HARRY: "Quite a bit, actually."
RIKER: "Welcome aboard the Titan... Lieutenant Commander Kim."

Especially because no way Riker would care about some stupid reprimand for banging an alien.

Well, why not!

More a villain... if she had been capable of growing a mustache, she would have been twirling it.

I can tell you that I had great fun envisioning a scenario where Tom was successful in saving the Monean ocean, and Janeway had to grin and bear it.

It still made Janeway look very bad. The scenario you suggest would at least repair some of the damage.

 

[Oddish]

It would have been better if this had been solved over a longer period where B'Elanna had worked hard and won the respect of Carey and the others, maybe got a promotion to Chief Engineer at the end of the season.

Regarding Carey, I think the best way to dispose of him would have been for B'Elanna to work under him (and periodically clash with him) for a year. At the end of "The 37's", Carey and a few Maquis jump ship. By this time, B'Elanna has calmed down, she's able to be professional, she's shown that she's truly ready to head up Engineering. She demonstrated talent in "Parallax", but not professionalism. Being chief engineer requires both.

Making her chief engineer so early was not only frickin' stupid, it eliminated a good part of her potential growth.

With the exception of Tuvok and Paris, none of them were on a lone ship 70,000 light years from home, which is what produced the rank stasis situation I described. It would take exceptional performance to get bumped up in rank in that environment. I think Harry deserved it, but with the "notable exceptions" I mentioned (Tuvok and Paris), everyone was basically on hold.

Just a reminder that in addition to commanding Voyager so adeptly... Tuvok also violated Janeway's explicit orders not to contact the Vidiians, and could have gotten Voyager's crew sent to a Vidiian chop shop as a result. And in addition to his clever subterfuge with Jonas, Tom also got himself brigged for a Prime Directive violation.

Harry, by comparison, was singled out by Janeway as "one of the bright spots" in the mission, and that he had exceeded all expectations. He helped design and build the Delta Flyer, as well as Seven's astrometrics lab. And if you regard "Threshold" as having actually happened (my head canon is that it was a really trippy dream Tom had), he helped plan the first W10 flight, and was Janeway's preferred candidate for making the flight.

Also, the "no available slots" argument collapses like a sandcastle at high tide when you remember Lt. Durst, an operations officer, killed early on. If Voyager has lost a lieutenant, that leaves an empty lieutenant slot. Janeway could have popped that hollow pip on Harry's collar any time she wanted... and I think they both knew it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I didn't say there were no available slots in other job positions, so there's nothing "collapsing like a sandcastle" except for a strawman argument I never made. I said Voyager was in a unique situation, far from the normal chain of command, that caused it to undergo rank stagnation except for a few notable exceptions like Tuvok and Tom. If they had been in normal Starfleet rotation people are upgraded in rank not just by performance but also by time served, so Harry would have been given a performance review every year or couple of years and barring some egregious screw up would have received a promotion. If he was not performing in the role he would be assigned somewhere else that better fit his capabilities or lack thereof, or he would have been discharged from Starfleet service. But since they were in the ass end of the galaxy none of those standard procedures were in place, and regular promotions were largely forgotten in most cases despite everyone, including the former Maquis crew members, performing exceptionally well under extraordinary circumstances.

 

[Oddish]

Perhaps I misspoke. But consider Janeway's other actions...
* Reinstating a Maquis terrorist's commission and making him her first officer
* Reinstating a convicted Maquis terrorist's commission and making him her helmsman.
* Giving a first year Academy dropout a commission, and making her chief engineer, passing over a more qualified candidate.
* Giving at least two more Maquis terrorists (Seska and Ayala) commissions when they presumably never set foot in Starfleet Academy. Seska's status as a Cardassian operative isn't relevant, because she had a convincing cover.
* Adding 30 or so Maquis to her ship's company, as well as two Delta Quadrant natives... and one (former) Borg.
* Giving a computer program status equivalent to a crew member.
* Promoting two crew, and demoting a total of six, on her own authority.

Compared to that, giving an outstanding ensign a promotion that would have been completely reasonable after two years, and nearly automatic after three... that's a frickin' slam dunk. Indeed, I maintain that her insistence on keeping him at ensign when so many others around him were promoted is a potential long-term career killer.

 

[Dee1891]

Are there any links about inconsistencies in shows like "Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine"? If not, I find this thread irrelevant.

 

[Oddish]

Are there any links about inconsistencies in shows like "Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine"? If not, I find this thread irrelevant.

1. This isn't about mere inconsistencies. It's about inconsistencies that could have been resolved with minimal effort on the part of the writers, but weren't.
I didn't say anything about how chummy the Maquis suddenly became with Janeway, for instance, because adding in a proper Starfleet-Maquis conflict storyline would have involved rewriting the show on a fundamental level. Sending the Borg baby back to her people would have required adding in a scene of maybe 5-10 seconds.

2. There are plenty of threads I find irrelevant. My standard solution is not to reply to them.

 

[at Quark's]

There's different definitions of transwarp. There's transwarp as in really high teens on the TOS-scale or multiples of Warp 9 on the TNG-scale (plus transwarp conduits and quantum slipstream). and then there's the infinite speed Warp 10 barrier of Threshold. Which really if you think about it is just an unlimited range version of the jump drive from Battlestar Galactica... that admittedly turns you into a sexual dynamo salamander. But since the salamander thing is totally reversible and takes days to happen anyway, so you can be easily treated with a hypospray before it happens, why not use it?

The only definition of transwarp I really buy into is its literal meaning 'beyond warp'. To me, Transwarp is just the general nomer for any method that results in significantly-faster-than-ordinary-warp-of-the-era transportation. So, to me, slipstream is a form of transwarp, Borg Transwarp (with or without hub) is , infinite velocity turning you into salamanders is, coaxial warp is. But also the propulsion method of the Excelsior within that era, regardless of whether that method was abandoned, or it later became 'ordinary' warp.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The only definition of transwarp I really buy into is its literal meaning 'beyond warp'. To me, Transwarp is just the general nomer for any method that results in significantly-faster-than-ordinary-warp-of-the-era transportation. So, to me, slipstream is a form of transwarp, Borg Transwarp (with or without hub) is , infinite velocity turning you into salamanders is, coaxial warp is. But also the propulsion method of the Excelsior within that era, regardless of whether that method was abandoned, or it later became 'ordinary' warp.

That's exactly what I am saying.

 

[Oddish]

That's my theory. The 23rd century's transwarp is the 24th century's warp. Maybe the quantum slipstream drive will simply be called "warp speed" by the 26th or so.

 

[Lynx]

Regarding Carey, I think the best way to dispose of him would have been for B'Elanna to work under him (and periodically clash with him) for a year. At the end of "The 37's", Carey and a few Maquis jump ship. By this time, B'Elanna has calmed down, she's able to be professional, she's shown that she's truly ready to head up Engineering. She demonstrated talent in "Parallax", but not professionalism. Being chief engineer requires both.

Making her chief engineer so early was not only frickin' stupid, it eliminated a good part of her potential growth.

I can agree with what you have writen about B'Elanna becoming Chief Engineer so early.
But not with dumping of Carey in The 37's. carey was a good character who should have stayed on the ship until the end.

Just a reminder that in addition to commanding Voyager so adeptly... Tuvok also violated Janeway's explicit orders not to contact the Vidiians, and could have gotten Voyager's crew sent to a Vidiian chop shop as a result. And in addition to his clever subterfuge with Jonas, Tom also got himself brigged for a Prime Directive violation.

Harry, by comparison, was singled out by Janeway as "one of the bright spots" in the mission, and that he had exceeded all expectations. He helped design and build the Delta Flyer, as well as Seven's astrometrics lab. And if you regard "Threshold" as having actually happened (my head canon is that it was a really trippy dream Tom had), he helped plan the first W10 flight, and was Janeway's preferred candidate for making the flight.

Also, the "no available slots" argument collapses like a sandcastle at high tide when you remember Lt. Durst, an operations officer, killed early on. If Voyager has lost a lieutenant, that leaves an empty lieutenant slot. Janeway could have popped that hollow pip on Harry's collar any time she wanted... and I think they both knew it.

I think that Tuvok did the right decision in Resolutions. The Marine Corps don't leave their people behind and so shouldn't Starfleet do either.

And what did Tom do wrong when Jonas was revealed as a spy? He just followed orders.

As for Kim, I have always wondered what Kim did among the Senior Officers in the first place. I mean, he's fresh from the Academy and all of a sudden he's among the Senior Staff on the ship. Officers like Carey, Rollins, Durst and even a former Maquis like Ayala should have been among the "commanding circles" on the ship instead. It's like if Wesley Crusher should have been among the senior officers on the Enterprise instead of Data or LaForge or Nog should have been promoted to a place among the important people on DS9 when he had just arrived from the Academy.

The only reason for letting in Kim in the senior staff so quickly should have been if he had had extraordinary skills when it came to computers and as Operations Officer, something he did show some potential for in the early Voyager books-but not in the series.

But as it was, with Kim among the senior staff, then he should have had a promotion somewhere during the series.

As for Threshold, it was just a nightmare Tom had after eating too much of Neelix's food.

 

[fireproof78]

I think that Tuvok did the right decision in Resolutions. The Marine Corps don't leave their people behind and so shouldn't Starfleet do either.

Um, I'm not sure that use of a former Earth organization like the Marine Corps as inspiration for why Starfleet doesn't leave people behind is a ringing endorsement when Starfleet is supposed to be a more evolved organization.

And what did Tom do wrong when Jonas was revealed as a spy? He just followed orders.

Also, not a great excuse to absolve someone of wrongdoing.

 

[Oddish]

And what did Tom do wrong when Jonas was revealed as a spy? He just followed orders.

Nothing. His investigation of Jonas was a positive, his actions with the Moneans arguably a negative. Certainly Janeway, who made the decision about promotion and demotion, regarded it thus.

As for Kim, I have always wondered what Kim did among the Senior Officers in the first place. I mean, he's fresh from the Academy and all of a sudden he's among the Senior Staff on the ship. Officers like Carey, Rollins, Durst and even a former Maquis like Ayala should have been among the "commanding circles" on the ship instead.

Just as B'Elanna should have had her arc (brigged for insubordination -> assistant engineer learning the ropes -> chief engineer), Harry should have had the same. Have him start as a Lower Deck special a la Ensign Sito. Then, his abilities (and Durst's death) ultimately bring him to prominence. Something like lower deck ensign -> ensign who sometimes turns up as senior staff meetings -> lieutenant and acting chief of operations

think that Tuvok did the right decision in Resolutions. The Marine Corps don't leave their people behind and so shouldn't Starfleet do either.

The right thing, yes. But he nonetheless disobeyed a direct order from Janeway. When they did the same thing, Tom was demoted and brigged, while Harry was saddled with a career-threatening reprimand.

As for Threshold, it was just a nightmare Tom had after eating too much of Neelix's food.

I knew I liked you.

 

[Vale]

The only definition of transwarp I really buy into is its literal meaning 'beyond warp'. To me, Transwarp is just the general nomer for any method that results in significantly-faster-than-ordinary-warp-of-the-era transportation. So, to me, slipstream is a form of transwarp, Borg Transwarp (with or without hub) is , infinite velocity turning you into salamanders is, coaxial warp is. But also the propulsion method of the Excelsior within that era, regardless of whether that method was abandoned, or it later became 'ordinary' warp.

I agree. My headcanon is that the Excelsior's revolutionary new warp drive became just the regular warp drive of the 24th century, hence the recalibration in the warp speed scale by the time of TNG. The NX-01 was the "transwarp great experiment" of its day. "Transwarp" is just Starfleet slang for "faster than us".

 

[Summer Solstice]

As for Kim, I have always wondered what Kim did among the Senior Officers in the first place. I mean, he's fresh from the Academy and all of a sudden he's among the Senior Staff on the ship. Officers like Carey, Rollins, Durst and even a former Maquis like Ayala should have been among the "commanding circles" on the ship instead. It's like if Wesley Crusher should have been among the senior officers on the Enterprise instead of Data or LaForge or Nog should have been promoted to a place among the important people on DS9 when he had just arrived from the Academy.

The only reason for letting in Kim in the senior staff so quickly should have been if he had had extraordinary skills when it came to computers and as Operations Officer, something he did show some potential for in the early Voyager books-but not in the series.

I wonder what the plan was for Kim's character arc when his character was created.

 

[at Quark's]

I wonder what the plan was for Kim's character arc when his character was created.

Did they even have a plan at all?

I don't mean that as a criticism by the way. I'm not convinced either they had a very clear plan on how to develop the Sisko character over the next few years beyond making him the 'Emissary' when they created the DS9 concept. I think they make it up as they go along.