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Gravity plating on ships

Gingerbread Demon

Yelling at the Vorlons
Premium Member
Anyone have any ideas how gravity plating on ships might work?

Also what did they do before the NX ships were built? How did people move around before the first Enterprise?
 
Also what did they do before the NX ships were built? How did people move around before the first Enterprise?
They presumably used artificial gravity. I don't recall the show ever stating that their gravity plating was a brand new technology, but I may have forgotten something.
 
The TNG Technical Manual has a section on how gravity generators work, but it's mostly technobabble.

What bugs me is the way it's assumed that the gravity can't pass through the hull -- in "Minefield," for instance, we see people weightless when they're standing on the top hull of the ship even though there are gravity plates just 3 meters below them, and there is no material that's opaque to gravity. (TV writers seem to assume gravity is caused by atmosphere.) And then there are the scenes in episodes like DS9: "Melora" showing that you can turn off the gravity in one room even if there's gravity on the levels beneath it. And logically you'd feel sideways pulls from the active gravity plates in the adjacent rooms, whose diagonal vectors would cancel out to a downward vector so it would just feel like lower gravity rather than zero. For that matter, any given gravity source would pull inward spherically -- anything below it or to the side would be as attracted as anything above it. So if there were gravity plates in every deck, the plates above and below you would cancel out and you'd be weightless.

In my Trek novels, I've explained this by positing that gravity plates emit virtual gravitons that are short-lived and decay after traveling a few meters, since they don't want the internal gravity field to interfere with the warp field outside the ship. I think I also said that they're polarized so that you only feel a pull from a plate when you're above it, not below it or off to the side.

A more sensible design would be to have a single gravity source that generates weight for the entire ship, presumably on the bottom deck -- although one design idea I've dabbled with is a cylindrical ship with an FTL core at the center, whose graviton leakage pulling inward is the source of shipboard gravity. Except it would get weaker for each deck further out by the inverse square law, so maybe you'd want a ring design where the habitat section is some distance out from the core, which would make sense if the core's pull were very strong.

Conversely, in my novelette "Hubpoint of No Return," I realized you could use the Forward catapult effect, which uses the gravitational analog of magnetism to create an acceleration perpendicular to a ring of moving mass, to generate artificial gravity for a station built inside the ring. The FTL ships in my Arachne trilogy, which use cylindrical warp cages around the ships, can generate a gravity vector within the cage by much the same principle. This means the direction of "down" is toward the rear of the ship, like the ships in The Expanse or other realistic SF, as opposed to the Trek model where "down" is perpendicular to the direction of motion.


So when did Earth get artificial gravity?

"Space Seed" implies they had it by the time the Botany Bay was launched, although I like to assume the cryogenic chamber was in a rotating drum within the cylindrical body of the ship. After all, the Ares IV from VGR: "One Small Step" didn't have AG in 2032.


We don't need it on Earth, we already got plenty of gravity. ;)

But if you reverse the effect -- or just put the gravity plate upside-down on the ceiling -- then you've got antigravity, which would be very useful. It stands to reason that the same scientific breakthroughs that would allow artificial gravity would allow antigravity, or vice-versa, so there's a big incentive to develop it even on the surface. True antigravity would make it immensely easier and safer to launch payloads into orbit and could be the key to colonizing space, assuming its energy demands weren't greater than the demands of rocket launches.
 
“True antigravity would make it immensely easier and safer to launch payloads into orbit and could be the key to colonizing space, assuming its energy demands weren't greater than the demands of rocket launches.”

In Star Wars, it seemed that Republic/Empire equipment used repulsorlift—with Umbarans having true antigravity—even more like Earth:Final Conflict

TAS Practical Joker and ST 6 were two of the few times we saw it turned off.

In IRON WOLF, antigravity was an inherent quality of wood—pointing to a more fanciful feel seen in Space:1999/Chronicles of Riddick/Flash Gordon.
 
What bugs me is the way it's assumed that the gravity can't pass through the hull
My personal head canon on that is that there is gravity plating in the floor and also in the ceiling, so that there's a gravity field generated between the two. Can't do that outside the ship. I know there's not really anything backing up that theory, but it mostly works.
 
My personal head canon on that is that there is gravity plating in the floor and also in the ceiling, so that there's a gravity field generated between the two. Can't do that outside the ship. I know there's not really anything backing up that theory, but it mostly works.

But then the question is, what is the nature of the force being used? If it's actual gravitation, then nothing would be opaque to it. After all, there are thousands of kilometers of rock between us and the center of the Earth, so if gravity couldn't pass through matter, we couldn't feel it. The fact that gravity works at all is dependent on the fact that it passes through everything. So how would having an upper plate prevent the gravity from being felt outside the plate?

Alternatively, if the force is electromagnetic, then it would have to be really powerful to have a diamagnetic effect on non-metallic objects, and then it would interfere with a ship's electronic systems. And gravitation and electromagnetism are the only long-range forces. If you could generate a long-range version of the strong nuclear force, that would probably have pretty devastating effects. The only alternative is some kind of magic unknown force that works the same as gravity but isn't gravity, and that doesn't make much sense.

I suppose you could handwave that there's some futuristic technology that allows blocking gravity or cancelling it out, and that the same technology is key to generating artificial gravity. But that seems overcomplicated.
 
But then the question is, what is the nature of the force being used? -----

Real gravity would seem to be a distortion of spacetime caused by the presence of matter. Artificial gravity generates a (fictional) particle called gravitons which seem to be generated in a similar fashion as EM energy though presumably using more exotic materials as rotors/stators. I would suppose that there are a variety of mechanisms to utilize this principle in numerous applications.

--Alex
 
I suppose you could handwave that there's some futuristic technology that allows blocking gravity or cancelling it out, and that the same technology is key to generating artificial gravity. But that seems overcomplicated.

One word: Cavorite!

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Real gravity would seem to be a distortion of spacetime caused by the presence of matter. Artificial gravity generates a (fictional) particle called gravitons which seem to be generated in a similar fashion as EM energy though presumably using more exotic materials as rotors/stators. I would suppose that there are a variety of mechanisms to utilize this principle in numerous applications.

--Alex

Gravitons are not fictional. They are the hypothetical exchange particle for the gravitational interaction in quantum theory, the equivalent of photons for electromagnetism.

Albert Einstein discussed quantized gravitational radiation in 1916, the year following his publication of general relativity.[9]: 525 The term graviton was coined in 1934 by Soviet physicists Dmitry Blokhintsev and Fyodor Galperin [ru].[3][9] Paul Dirac reintroduced the term in a number of lectures in 1959, noting that the energy of the gravitational field should come in quanta.[10][11] A mediation of the gravitational interaction by particles was anticipated by Pierre-Simon Laplace.[12]

Gravitons have not been experimentally confirmed, and physicists still struggle to reconcile classical and quantum theories of gravitation, but if gravitons do exist, they're the basis of all gravitation, not something fundamentally different.

A fictional artificial gravity system might be based on some conjectural variant of gravitons, though. As I mentioned, in my Trek novels I posit that gravity plates emit short-lived virtual gravitons that cease to exist before they travel more than about 3 meters from their source, explaining why their effects aren't felt from one deck above. (Virtual particles are a real thing that can have a measurable influence on other particles, as in the Casimir effect.) In my Arachne-Troubleshooter Universe, I've posited a form of "programmable quark matter" that can simulate the effects of exotic particles, such as gravitons that have a higher coupling constant and can thus exert the equivalent pull of a much higher quantity of mass.
 
I just figured the 'Gravity Plating' couldn't generate anywhere near the amount of Gravitons that a real Planet could due to the lack of mass a ship has compared to a actual Planet, so the reason they don't extend past the hull of a vessel is due to their limited amount of Gravitons being emitted & being very localized to each deck.

I figured each deck of 'Gravity Plating' extends just far enough to barely touch the next set of 'Gravity Plating' on the deck above, so the 'Gravity Effect' is localized to each Deck on the vessel or facility.
 
I just figured the 'Gravity Plating' couldn't generate anywhere near the amount of Gravitons that a real Planet could due to the lack of mass a ship has compared to a actual Planet, so the reason they don't extend past the hull of a vessel is due to their limited amount of Gravitons being emitted & being very localized to each deck.

I figured each deck of 'Gravity Plating' extends just far enough to barely touch the next set of 'Gravity Plating' on the deck above, so the 'Gravity Effect' is localized to each Deck on the vessel or facility.

In that case, by the inverse square law, there'd be a noticeable decrease in gravity between a person's feet and the top of their head, which would be dizzying and disorienting, at least until you adapted to it. And if you were used to it, then as soon as you beamed down to a planet with normal gravity, you'd be dizzied all over again.

Of course, that's probably the case with my virtual-graviton idea too, since some would decay faster than others, but I never said it was a perfect explanation, just the best band-aid I could come up with for something utterly absurd.

The inverse square law is also why you wouldn't need a planet's worth of mass to generate enough gravity to hold people. Gravity behaves as if all of the Earth's mass were concentrated at the center, about 6,380 kilometers below our feet. If the gravity source were only, say, 6.4 centimeters below your feet, that's 1/100000 as distant, so you'd need only 1/10000000000, one ten billionth as much mass to generate the equivalent pull. Okay, that's still nearly 6 x 10^14 kg, the mass of a mid-sized asteroid, but generating that amount of virtual mass artificially would be at least ten billion times easier than generating a whole planet's worth.
 
In that case, by the inverse square law, there'd be a noticeable decrease in gravity between a person's feet and the top of their head, which would be dizzying and disorienting, at least until you adapted to it. And if you were used to it, then as soon as you beamed down to a planet with normal gravity, you'd be dizzied all over again.

Of course, that's probably the case with my virtual-graviton idea too, since some would decay faster than others, but I never said it was a perfect explanation, just the best band-aid I could come up with for something utterly absurd.

The inverse square law is also why you wouldn't need a planet's worth of mass to generate enough gravity to hold people. Gravity behaves as if all of the Earth's mass were concentrated at the center, about 6,380 kilometers below our feet. If the gravity source were only, say, 6.4 centimeters below your feet, that's 1/100000 as distant, so you'd need only 1/10000000000, one ten billionth as much mass to generate the equivalent pull. Okay, that's still nearly 6 x 10^14 kg, the mass of a mid-sized asteroid, but generating that amount of virtual mass artificially would be at least ten billion times easier than generating a whole planet's worth.
Maybe we extend the field slightly further then, this way when they setup the Gravity Plating, the deck above will already be feeling the effects of weaker gravity and you'll have relatively consistent gravity up to the point of a persons head. With each deck's gravity plate network combined, you'll have a relatively consistent feel of Gravity, no matter how tall you are.
 
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