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Spoilers Gotham - Season 2

Commander Richard

Yo! Man!
Premium Member



gothampd-s2.jpg


How do you like the show so far and what would you like to see in the new season? So far, we've got Lucius Fox slated to appear on a regular basis along with some Joker news.

Gotham Actor Gives Joker Tease

"The upcoming season of Gotham is going to dive into the origins of the Clown Prince of Crime.

Actor Cameron Monaghan posted an in-character mugshot on
Instagram, in which he shows off the Joker's iconic wicked grin."


 
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I read yesterday that Ben Edlund is joining the staff of Powers, which means he's probably leaving Gotham. That would deprive the show of its best writer, which is not encouraging.
 
Silver St. Cloud? Really? Are they just going to bring in everyone from Bruce's future a decade or two early? At least they could start with Julie Madison. Go through the love interests chronologically.
 
Silver St. Cloud? Really? Are they just going to bring in everyone from Bruce's future a decade or two early? At least they could start with Julie Madison. Go through the love interests chronologically.

I think this is a good idea, right time for this. I actually hope they expand Bruce's story and reduce amount of time with Bullock and Gordon.
 
The original concept may have been Gordon-centric, but that changed after the PtBs were impressed by David Masousz's acting abilities, so, like it or not, we are going to see that character's life focused on.
 
The original concept may have been Gordon-centric, but that changed after the PtBs were impressed by David Masousz's acting abilities, so, like it or not, we are going to see that character's life focused on.

Oh, I get that. The show's portrayal of Bruce is the only thing about it that's actually, consistently good. Still, one of the core problems with the show is that it cares more about continuity porn and tossing in familiar characters than it does about telling effective story arcs. Granted, The Flash is just as heavy with comics nods, but somehow it works there, perhaps because it's portraying them in the "present," during the Flash's time as an active, adult superhero, rather than prematurely introducing them while the hero is still a child. And perhaps because the show as a whole has more of a sense of narrative direction and focus, so the character inclusions feel like they serve a purpose. This show is just meandering, so the comics character inclusions feel more arbitrary, as if continuity porn is the end in itself.

Or maybe it's just this specific case. Silver St. Cloud's importance to the Batman mythos is that she's that one really special woman whom Bruce loved, whom he allowed to get intimate enough with him that she actually figured out on her own that he was Batman, and who couldn't live with the risk that posed to him. It's a tragic love story that works because of Bruce's dual identity, the conflict between his lives as Bruce and Batman. So if you introduce a character named Silver St. Cloud into the story when Bruce is only 13 or 14 and is still years from adopting a dual identity (let alone being old enough to get intimate with a woman), then she isn't really Silver St. Cloud; she's just some girl he likes. It's using the name of the character in a context where the essence of the character can't really apply. I'm not sure that could work. Maybe they can come up with some twist that preserves the dynamic and meaning of the relationship without those aspects, but I really don't have any faith in these writers to be that clever.
 
I dont understand what you mean by "continuity porn", but the series has two stated objectives :
1) Take these iconic characters - particularly the villains - and explore their origins
2) Explore the question "What if a young Jim Gordon had been involved in investigating the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne, and how might their deaths have shaped him - and the city itself - into what they both became?"
 
I dont understand what you mean by "continuity porn", but the series has two stated objectives :
1) Take these iconic characters - particularly the villains - and explore their origins

You just answered your own question. If that sort of thing is an end in itself, if it's forced for the sake of including it rather than emerging organically, then it's continuity porn. "Porn" metaphorically means the gratuitous portrayal of a thing as a self-indulgent exercise without deeper merit.

Granted, what I do in my Rise of the Federation books is a lot about setting up the foundations of the Star Trek universe as we'll later know it. I've featured the ancestors of Kirk and Spock, the first contacts with planets like Sauria and Delta, and so forth. But it hasn't been the primary focus except when it served a purpose, when it contributed something meaningful. And I've been careful to avoid going overboard with it and making everything about foreshadowing the future. For instance, in Tower of Babel I initially wrote a character as Mr. Scott's ancestor, then changed him to an original character because it would've been one ancestor too much, and there was no good story reason for the character to be a Scott. Instead, I made him a character whose family ties were relevant to the 22nd-century narrative I was telling.

I think that Gotham's primary goal should be telling a story about the rise of Jim Gordon and the maturing of Bruce Wayne. Laying some foundations for characters who are relevant in the future makes sense, but if everything is about setting up future Batman enemies and allies, that makes it contrived and artificial and frequently gratuitous. Nods to the future should be done more intermittently, so that they have meaning when they are included. It shouldn't be the overriding goal of the show, because then it's just going through the motions.

Note: I'm not disagreeing with you that telling everyone's origin story is the primary objective of the show. Bruno Heller has made that clear enough in interviews. I'm saying that I disagree with Heller's choice to approach it that way, that it's a contrived, gimmicky, and artificial approach that hurts the show. It would be better to focus on a few key origins -- Gordon, Bruce, Penguin, and the like -- along with other elements of foreshadowing used judiciously and with restraint.

Look at Smallville, for instance. Although it did introduce a lot of future Superman foes before Clark became Superman, they were spaced out gradually over ten seasons. In early seasons, there were relatively few foreshadowings of Clark's future, and most of his antagonists were original characters. In the early years, it was mostly about Clark, Lana, and Lex heading toward the futures we knew. Lois Lane wasn't introduced until season four, Jimmy Olsen didn't show up until season six, and so on. And when they introduced future Superman villains like Brainiac and Zod, they made each one the sole focus of a season-long arc. They took their time (and would've introduced a lot fewer familiar characters if the show hadn't run so unexpectedly long). They didn't try to cram in a dozen future Superman characters every season, at least not until the later years when they were running out of ideas.
 
The original concept may have been Gordon-centric, but that changed after the PtBs were impressed by David Masousz's acting abilities, so, like it or not, we are going to see that character's life focused on.

Oh, I get that. The show's portrayal of Bruce is the only thing about it that's actually, consistently good. Still, one of the core problems with the show is that it cares more about continuity porn and tossing in familiar characters than it does about telling effective story arcs. Granted, The Flash is just as heavy with comics nods, but somehow it works there, perhaps because it's portraying them in the "present," during the Flash's time as an active, adult superhero, rather than prematurely introducing them while the hero is still a child. And perhaps because the show as a whole has more of a sense of narrative direction and focus, so the character inclusions feel like they serve a purpose. This show is just meandering, so the comics character inclusions feel more arbitrary, as if continuity porn is the end in itself.

Or maybe it's just this specific case. Silver St. Cloud's importance to the Batman mythos is that she's that one really special woman whom Bruce loved, whom he allowed to get intimate enough with him that she actually figured out on her own that he was Batman, and who couldn't live with the risk that posed to him. It's a tragic love story that works because of Bruce's dual identity, the conflict between his lives as Bruce and Batman. So if you introduce a character named Silver St. Cloud into the story when Bruce is only 13 or 14 and is still years from adopting a dual identity (let alone being old enough to get intimate with a woman), then she isn't really Silver St. Cloud; she's just some girl he likes. It's using the name of the character in a context where the essence of the character can't really apply. I'm not sure that could work. Maybe they can come up with some twist that preserves the dynamic and meaning of the relationship without those aspects, but I really don't have any faith in these writers to be that clever.
High school sweethearts end their relationship as they go off to school/move on with other aspects of their lives. They run into each other years later in their professional lives--or, you know, Facebook--and fall in love and get married.

It happens. All the time.
 
High school sweethearts end their relationship as they go off to school/move on with other aspects of their lives. They run into each other years later in their professional lives--or, you know, Facebook--and fall in love and get married.

It happens. All the time.

Maybe, but if we only see the "high school sweetheart" phase, then what's the point? I'm not denying that it's possible to tell the story this way -- I'm questioning whether there's a good reason to include the character. My whole point is that foreshadowing future characters should serve a purpose to the story rather than being the sole purpose in itself. It's not about whether it can be done, but whether it should be done to this constant and repetitive degree.
 
As a fan wank would love to see Chiklis reunite the strike team from Shield for one episode only to have a them all killed by episode end. Glad another strong actor has joined the show.
 
Ben Grimm comes to Gotham? It's clobberin' time for police corruption!

I never watched The Shield, but Chiklis's character was basically a deeply corrupt cop, right? So it's ironic that he's playing a ruthless anti-corruption crusader here.

And I'm wondering what this means for Captain Essen. Is she being written out?
 
Come to think of it, it's a bit ironic that Chiklis is joining the only surviving DC show (not counting Vertigo titles) that isn't from Greg Berlanti, since Chiklis's previous TV superhero experience was as the star of Berlanti's No Ordinary Family.
 
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