• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Gotham - Season 2

The original concept may have been Gordon-centric, but that changed after the PtBs were impressed by David Masousz's acting abilities, so, like it or not, we are going to see that character's life focused on.

Oh, I get that. The show's portrayal of Bruce is the only thing about it that's actually, consistently good. Still, one of the core problems with the show is that it cares more about continuity porn and tossing in familiar characters than it does about telling effective story arcs. Granted, The Flash is just as heavy with comics nods, but somehow it works there, perhaps because it's portraying them in the "present," during the Flash's time as an active, adult superhero, rather than prematurely introducing them while the hero is still a child. And perhaps because the show as a whole has more of a sense of narrative direction and focus, so the character inclusions feel like they serve a purpose. This show is just meandering, so the comics character inclusions feel more arbitrary, as if continuity porn is the end in itself.

Or maybe it's just this specific case. Silver St. Cloud's importance to the Batman mythos is that she's that one really special woman whom Bruce loved, whom he allowed to get intimate enough with him that she actually figured out on her own that he was Batman, and who couldn't live with the risk that posed to him. It's a tragic love story that works because of Bruce's dual identity, the conflict between his lives as Bruce and Batman. So if you introduce a character named Silver St. Cloud into the story when Bruce is only 13 or 14 and is still years from adopting a dual identity (let alone being old enough to get intimate with a woman), then she isn't really Silver St. Cloud; she's just some girl he likes. It's using the name of the character in a context where the essence of the character can't really apply. I'm not sure that could work. Maybe they can come up with some twist that preserves the dynamic and meaning of the relationship without those aspects, but I really don't have any faith in these writers to be that clever.
I've heard of the character, but I'm not familar with her. Based on what you say here, it does make her seem like a strange choice as the first big love interest for Bruce. I would have expected them to go with Vickie Vale, honestly. Thanks to the first Burton Batman move, and the Arkham games she's probably his best known love interest. All they would have to do to fit her into the Gotham world is make a reporter for the school paper who is doing a story on the billionaire orphan Bruce Wayne, and finds herself getting pulled into all of the drama surrounding Bruce and Wayne Enerprises.
 
I've heard of the character, but I'm not familar with her.

She was a key character in Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers's brief but highly influential run on Detective Comics in the '70s -- which, in the span of a mere eight issues, introduced Rupert Thorne, reintroduced the Golden Age characters Hugo Strange and Deadshot, and featured the classic Joker story "The Laughing Fish," well-known from its Batman: The Animated Series adaptation. Actually the third act of the adaptation was taken from an earlier Joker story (O'Neil and Adams's "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge"), because the climax of the original story was also the climax of the Silver St. Cloud arc.

I suppose I can't blame them for wanting to use Silver. Those eight issues have been incredibly influential on a number of shows and films, from B:TAS to Arrow to the upcoming Suicide Squad movie (since it was the version of Deadshot as reinvented by Englehart and Rogers that later became a key character in the Suicide Squad comics). But the desire for homage is not enough as an end in itself, and that's the problem with this whole show. Heck, the Englehart-Rogers run was steeped in homage to the Golden and Silver Ages, even resurrecting long-forgotten characters. In that way, it foreshadowed a lot of modern superhero fiction. But its use of those classic elements was transformative and innovative. Not to mention that the characters and elements it brought back had been largely forgotten, and thus it was valuable to bring them back.

Well... I suppose it could be valuable in the same sense to feature Silver St. Cloud, since she's an important comics character who's never been featured onscreen. But I'm still not convinced that introducing her as a teenager is a good way to do it.


I would have expected them to go with Vickie Vale, honestly. Thanks to the first Burton Batman move, and the Arkham games she's probably his best known love interest.
Maybe they're saving her for later.
 
Good grief, how many regulars are they up to by this point? They had far too many regulars last season as it was. They seem to have learned nothing.
 
This is one of those hand wave things, he was pretty much a regular last year and it won't change how much or little he is used this year.
 
Good grief, how many regulars are they up to by this point? They had far too many regulars last season as it was. They seem to have learned nothing.
If the list on Wikipedia is accurate then they have 16 regular cast members.
Ben Mackenzie as James Gordon
Donal Louge as Harvey Bullock
David Mazouz as Bruce Wayne
Robin Lord Taylor as Oswald Cobblepot/The Penguin
Erin Richards as Barbara Kean
Zabryna Guevara as Sarah Essen
Sean Pertwee as Alfred Pennyworth
Camren Bicondova as Selina "Cat" Kyle
Cory Micheal Smith as Edward Nigma
Victoria Cartagena as Renee Montoya
Andrew Stewart-Jones as Crispus Allen
John Doman as Carmine "The Roman" Falcone (with the way last season ended I question this one)
Nicholas D'Agosto as Harvey Dent
Morena Baccarin as Leslie Thompkins
Chris Chalk as Lucius Fox
James Frain as Theo Galavan
Jessica Lucas as Tabitha Galavan/The Tigress
Michael Chicklis as Nathaniel Barnes
Drew Powell as Butch Gilzean

Wikipedia still has Jada Pinkett Smith on the list of regulars but we know she won't be back
 


Aw I was hoping he'd play the new commissioner

;)

PvmGehml.jpg
 
If the list on Wikipedia is accurate then they have 16 regular cast members.

I'm sure that encompasses both old and newly announced ones. Someone will update the article once the new season premieres. I'd be surprised if Cartagena and Stewart-Jones were still credited as regulars, considering that they were effectively dropped halfway through the first season.
 
Probably, and like I said in my post it did still include Jada Pinkett Smith, so it's definitely not up to date. But it does at least give some idea of who will be a regular next season.
 
When Michael Chiklis' casting was announced, one of the articles reporting the news included a list of the show's main cast that included everyone other than Jada Pinkett Smith. Because this list is about a week old, it leads me to believe that Fish is the only main character from Season 1 who isn't returning.
 

I'm completely unsurprised. They were clearly dropped half a season ago; probably the only reason their names stayed in the credits was contractual.

And it's just one more reason to be frustrated with this pathetic joke of a show. Montoya and Allen were totally screwed over. They'd just been established as Gordon's valuable new allies, and then were immediately forgotten as if they'd never existed. Montoya got a couple of extra weeks as Barbara's former lover whom she went back to briefly, but that plotline went nowhere, and it was a pretty unflattering final image to have of Montoya, given how dysfunctional she and Barbara were together.
 
I was really hoping they were going to keep them around and actually give them stuff to do this season. They seemed like pretty interesting characters, and they are a big part of the Batman mythos, so I was hoping they would stick around.

Losing them then takes us down to 14 regular cast members. Just for a reference Lost's final season had 11 regulars, and RDM BSG had 14 for it's final season.
 
I was really hoping they were going to keep them around and actually give them stuff to do this season. They seemed like pretty interesting characters, and they are a big part of the Batman mythos, so I was hoping they would stick around.

Yeah, it's frustrating. When I first heard about this show, I was expecting something like Gotham Central, in which Montoya and Allen were the lead characters along with Gordon. But instead it's ended up as a gormless exercise in "What future Batman character can we gratuitously foreshadow this week," and since those two have already been checked off the list, the show has no further use for them.
 
I don't see the big deal about Montoya and Allen, the show was perfectly wiling to kill off Maroni and retire Falone. Thery've proven repeatedly that they aren;t going to follow the comic book storylines that closely.
 
Montoya and Allen were boring and I haven't missed them.

Which is the problem in itself. I'm not that familiar with Allen, but Montoya shouldn't have been boring. The show tossed them in because of its kitchen-sink mentality, but it didn't have a good idea of how to use them.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top