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"Good Episodes" you think are bad?

carcinoGeneticist

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I, fairly recently, created a thread called "Bad Episodes" you think are good? in which I asked people to put just that-- episodes generally seen as bad quality that you like. I figured the opposite thread was also in order. So here, put any episodes that are generally well-recieved or even beloved that you don't think are all that.
I'll go first: The Inner Light. I did not like The Inner Light. I found it to be boring.
 
I've tried watching DS9 'In the Pale Moonlight' several times over the years and appreciate it but I continue to dislike it. I don't like Sisko talking to the computer narrating the story. I don't find the story compelling enough to draw me in. I'm not a big fan of Garak either.
 
Enterprise's Xindi arc overall I find quite overrated. Particularly "Azati Prime." People seem sooooo into that one, I find it empty trash.

On DS9, I've never been able to access the charms of "Take Me Out To The Holosuite."

On TNG, "Measure Of A Man" consistently leaves me cold. The device of Riker arguing for the prosecution, I just can't buy it, it's too forced for me to invest in anything else happening.

"Death Wish" on VOY flops for me for similar reasons. The Q are going to let a human preside over a trial of vital issues related to the future of their species? That's like if we used dogs as judges.

TOS "A Piece Of The Action" is actual torture. Painfully strained and unfunny. Every moment sets my teeth on edge.
 
Shuttlepod One is just 2 guys 1 pod, nothing happens.
Waltz is just 2 guys 1 cave, nothing happens.
(Exaggerating of course :D)
 
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I, fairly recently, created a thread called "Bad Episodes" you think are good? in which I asked people to put just that-- episodes generally seen as bad quality that you like. I figured the opposite thread was also in order. So here, put any episodes that are generally well-recieved or even beloved that you don't think are all that.
I'll go first: The Inner Light. I did not like The Inner Light. I found it to be boring.
This is a good question. And for me, very difficult.

For the classic era (TOS - ENT), I'm actually drawing a blank. I'm not sure there is a widely well-received episode that I consider bad.


The current era is a very, very easy answer... "Subspace Rhapsody".

I don't know if it's "widely regarded" as good, but it certainly seems to be on this site. So going by that barometer, I definitely think it just doesn't work.

It's already stretching my suspension of disbelief with an anomaly that makes people sing. But it also has the crew do dance routines? It was ridiculous beyond words. It's the only episode in the franchise I won't rewatch.

(For context on why I feel this way, I do not like musicals. At all. Just not my genre.)
 
"The Measure of a Man" tries hard, but it ultimately flops hard for me as well. The on/off switch is a giveaway, as much as the ultimate qualifier of sentience. I vaguely recall posting that bit before, but as much as the script is almost there and as much as the acting actually is, it just doesn't fully work for me. It didn't help that every subsequent story looking to this one as inspiration got increasingly and by-the-numbers dumber as the seasons went by. Doesn't help that everyone lets Data create new subroutines and code without anyone taking a look to make sure, never mind - if we're going to play with allegory in the same way the episode was trying to equate a machine build with a biological construct - that you or I don't write up our own prescriptions or have our own alchemy tables to directly alter our brain functions, or any other functions, with. That's yet another difference.

Seconding @Sakonna with "Death Wish", the humanization of Q and the Continuum to eke out plotting possibilities is just feeble and contrived, and the dog mention is most apropos.

"The Inner Light" is just so stupid on so many levels. Yes it tugs at the emotional hamstrings with rubber stamp plot points, and in the right mood won me over briefly, but the story would have been more effective if the probe had more put into it than "Well, we are so egocentric that we will put this out into space, complete with mind probe thing that will force our memories into one and only one person, then it will deactivate and hand out a flute and we don't even know if the mind probe will cause irumotic syndrome or cancer or cavities or cooties or anything else."

"I, Borg" is said to be one of the greats. I appreciate the idea that it's trying not to be a copycat of TBOBW and to do something original and it's not a total failure (the Worf scenes, save for the dumb surgery, are by far the best), but it would have helped if it didn't go out of its way to mushify Beverly (who's often written as a nitwit in this season) as well as altering characters for the sake of the plot rather than having their changed attitudes feel authentic. Picard, maybe, but there's nothing there that convinced me that Guinan would have changed her mind, and given the relative lifespan and incidents, 3 years between "Q Who" where she's quite adamant that they are unstoppable and now... can't buy into it.

"Darmok" - this isn't a race where the universal translator turns a real alien race into mixed up metaphor, they're using actual English metaphors. No real explanation, just an hour of Picard's cool new coat plus a ton of jibber. "The Ensigns of Command" did a far better job of exploring communication and it kept it limited to one scene involving a cup of hot brown tea!!

"Brothers"

"Disaster" is another contrived piece where, typical of season 5, the letdown of real science continues to disappoint and grate. Ditto for forgetting how Geordi's VISOR could have warned them of a big issue a lot sooner. And Beverly (yup) tells us to fully inhale before depressurizing. It's the other way around and this show isn't Doctor Who so there's a proper standard for real science usage here. Geordi also says "sucked into space" when EVEN SEASON ONE CORRECTLY KNEW THE DIFFERENCE.

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:brickwall: And that's in one of the poorest scribbled out storylines recycled from a far better one made 21 years earlier!! :brickwall::brickwall: What the heck happened in four years to drop the ball, apart from switching from trying to be sci-fi to "90210 But in Space"? :brickwall::brickwall::brickwall: Seriously. Geordi, of all people, Chief Engineer, should know such as basic difference. Never mind Beverly, Chief Medical Officer. Never mind the other groupings and problems therein (broken ankle? No problem, Picard has built-in springs and can easily jump to the top of the turbolift he easily screwed the top off before, Data's half-baked voltage situation, Troi can't sense where the living people are, yet in 50% of the other episodes she can detect life from several planetary systems away, etc. I'm sure one of the injured guys is probably thinking "Dang stupid corridor, pickles, sex onions, sex, I'm in holodeck 4 near the cargo bay so why don't I crawl there and replicate up a bandage and burger, sex" and how Troi can't pick up any of that, I have no idea...)

Speaking of holodeck four and cargo bay and all, "The Perfect Mate" - another alleged great - is another recycled plot from TOS ("Elaan of Troyius") and fails miserably.

"The Offspring" is just a twist on "The Measure of a Man". Great acting, true, but it gets a bit ropey. I'd rate it higher than "Measure" in some ways, but it's coasting on the "hand her over to Starfleet" trope and, yup, on cue the admiral o' the week is suitably driven to sadness because that's the power of plot.
 
The current era is a very, very easy answer... "Subspace Rhapsody".

I don't know if it's "widely regarded" as good, but it certainly seems to be on this site. So going by that barometer, I definitely think it just doesn't work.

It's already stretching my suspension of disbelief with an anomaly that makes people sing. But it also has the crew do dance routines? It was ridiculous beyond words. It's the only episode in the franchise I won't rewatch.

(For context on why I feel this way, I do not like musicals. At all. Just not my genre.)

I'm trying to remember the YT channel review, which pointed out how the songs rarely add anything to the plot. The bits were just there saying what everyone already knew, even citing how at least "The Way to Eden" didn't regurgitate what audiences knew but added to it with some actually clever lyrics. But I can't take credit for that. That said, I still couldn't believe the Klingon bit people talked about until finding the clip and-- oh wow, they were not joking (unlike the episode's treatment of its audience...). Even if I found the words, I'd have hard time writing them because the episode is so far down that it makes all the stuff I just whined about regarding season 5 TNG seem like the pinnacle of evolved science fiction by comparison.
 
Well I am a big DS9 fan. And many people said that "The Visitor" is such a great and emotional episode. But somehow it didn't catch me so much, idk why. There have been other episodes that moved me more and even made me cry. "The Visitor" isn't a bad episode because imo there is no bad DS9 episode but it's not one of the best for me.
 
SNW's “Ad Astra per Aspera”

I know some people love the episode, and think it's a strong message. But I really, really, really don’t like SNW’s “Ad Astra per Aspera,” since it doesn't even acknowledge the argument put forward by DS9's "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" while trying to damn the Federation by tying the genetic engineering ban to an allegory about discrimination.

SNW totally ignores the possibility genetic engineering technology robs children of their agency to be who they are, and instead allows parents (and others) to assign identity to children. It’s the reason Dr. Bashir resents his parents. They didn’t accept him for who he was, and instead basically did the 24th century equivalent of conversion therapy. Except instead of “praying the gay away,” they used science to create the child they wanted.

SNW wants us to cheer on Number One and see her as a victim of the Federation. But the episode stops short of questioning whether what her parents did was child abuse? What they're using the character to advocate as being acceptable is as antithetical to the idea of what minority groups have been fighting for in terms of acceptance and individual agency as I can imagine.
 
Well I am a big DS9 fan. And many people said that "The Visitor" is such a great and emotional episode. But somehow it didn't catch me so much, idk why. There have been other episodes that moved me more and even made me cry. "The Visitor" isn't a bad episode because imo there is no bad DS9 episode but it's not one of the best for me.

After the initial viewing, the plot holes and conveniences really become apparent. The best way to overlook that is to pass it off as "the 24th century people think differently to 20th century people" as, if Jake talked like that to any random stranger whom he just invited indoors for tea and cookies with after she says she's an admirer of his writing works, she'd be calling up a hospital or emergency line and saying "HELP, THIS GUY HAS WEIRD IDEATIONS AND HE WANTS TO KILL HIMSELF!!!1!!! I'M SERIES!!!1!!1111!!!1!!!11!!!!!2" whereas, in the 24th, she goes "Oh, okey dokey then, tell me more! Oh, you want to lop yourself off, go right ahead, it's as inconsequential as everything else in our time." and doesn't think twice, thrice, or even once about it all. Jake's a real good storyteller then.

That said, on initial viewing it is excellent and a lot of it does hold up. Just have to overlook some of it.
 
TAS: I was shocked to see some people put The Counter-Clock Incident on some top 10 lists, as it wouldn't even make my top 25.

TNG: Cause and Effect really didn't hold up for me on my last rewatch. I was bored out of my mind watching them repeat the same scenes over and over to get to an outcome I already knew.

DS9: I don't like Little Green Men much, I find it too absurd. Same with The Magnificent Ferengi and Our Man Bashir. (And honestly I thought The Visitor was only 'pretty decent').

Voyager: I didn't like Message in a Bottle or Distant Origin all that much, but Someone to Watch Over Me in particular is an episode I never need to see again.

Enterprise: Dear Doctor jumps to mind, but I think the winner here is Carbon Creek because I tuned out of that story early on and spent the rest of the time just waiting for it to be over. Waiting and waiting and waiting.

Lower Decks: Hear All, Trust Nothing didn't work for me for whatever reason. It might be the uncanny valley effect, where it got so close to DS9 that all I could see were the flaws. On the other hand, A Mathematically Perfect Redemption is one of my absolute favourites, so maybe I just had my wires crossed that fortnight.

Prodigy: Cracked Mirror was too ridiculous for me.

Strange New Worlds: The easy answer would be Subspace Rhapsody, but the episode is DISQUALIFIED on the grounds that other people don't rate it too highly either! It's one of the lowest ranked SNW episodes both on IMDb and right here as well.

Instead I'm going to pick A Quality of Mercy, which was like they decided to see what would happen if they took Trials and Tribble-ations and made all the opposite choices. The answer is: they got the opposite results. For me anyway. I would've quit Strange New Worlds right here if it wasn't for the Lower Decks crossover.
 
For me, every single Borg episode after "Q Who" is a bit of a letdown. No, I'm not saying they're all bad. Of course I like "Best of Both Worlds." But the Borg were originally a very interesting, very unique, and very scary concept that, almost immediately, no writer after Maurice Hurley could figure out how to write. A hive mind with no individuals, bent only on consuming technology. That was a really good premise. And it was well done in "Q Who."

But from that moment on, every writer had to try to make the Borg more conventional villains with a single individual spokesperson. Locutus, Hugh, Seven of Nine, the Queen, even Lore. Every damn time we saw the hive mind, no individuals Borg collective, there was a new individual to deal with. And every single time, they just deballed the premise even further.
 
I've tried watching DS9 'In the Pale Moonlight' several times over the years and appreciate it but I continue to dislike it. I don't like Sisko talking to the computer narrating the story. I don't find the story compelling enough to draw me in. I'm not a big fan of Garak either.

What I hated about that one was that it was aired RIGHT AFTER the episode where S31 is introduced. So we have literally JUST FOUND OUT that the Federation has an organization created for doing dirty work (like manipulating the Romulans). So WHY is Sisko (a shipbuilding, station administrator, and part time religious icon) doing it?

For me it's "Duett". I'm sorry, I *know* that it's a good episode, and I know it's supposed to be like that, but when the Bajoran kills Maritza - I'm a sucker for happy ends, although this episode doesn't give the opportunity of having a happy end.

And what kind of incompetent is Bashir, that he can't cure a knife-wound? Picard got a dagger in his heart, and there wasn't even a doctor next to him, but he survived. Why couldn't Marritza?

Well I am a big DS9 fan. And many people said that "The Visitor" is such a great and emotional episode. But somehow it didn't catch me so much, idk why. There have been other episodes that moved me more and even made me cry. "The Visitor" isn't a bad episode because imo there is no bad DS9 episode but it's not one of the best for me.

While I consider "The Visitor" the best Trek episode period, nothing is going to be universally popular.
 
What I hated about that one was that it was aired RIGHT AFTER the episode where S31 is introduced. So we have literally JUST FOUND OUT that the Federation has an organization created for doing dirty work (like manipulating the Romulans). So WHY is Sisko (a shipbuilding, station administrator, and part time religious icon) doing it?
Section 31 is responsible for making bad choices that make everything worse, Sisko is in charge of making good choices that improve the situation. Very different departments.
 
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Section 31 is responsible for making bad choices that make everything worse, Sisko is in charge of making good choices that improve the situation. Very different departments.
S31 is responsible for playing dirty for the greater good, or at least the perceived greater good. Manipulating the Romulans into the war was totally their bailiwick.
 
S31 is responsible for playing dirty for the greater good, or at least the perceived greater good. Manipulating the Romulans into the war was totally their bailiwick.
What I'm saying is, Section 31 didn't think of it and didn't come up with a plan, Sisko did. He wouldn't call them up for their help because he hates them and wants them shut down, and he didn't need them.

Also:

"SLOAN: We don't submit reports or ask for approval for specific operations, if that's what you mean. We're an autonomous department. "

"SISKO: Starfleet Command had given the plan their blessing and I thought that would make things easier. But I was the one who had to make it happen."

Bit of an important distinction.
 
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