Well, I preferred her as a captain.
As for the NuTrek series, I'm not too found of what I've seen. Too much 2000 century doom-and-gloom in most of them. But I might give SNW a chance.
Garrett Wang
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As for the NuTrek series, I'm not too found of what I've seen. Too much 2000 century doom-and-gloom in most of them. But I might give SNW a chance.
"Doom and gloom" is a part of human storytelling in some measure. What Trek shows (as it does) is that people can rise above it. among other franchises.
But, then I don't think the 2000s are doom and gloom like you do. Studying history, as well as human behavior, and I think there's a lot more optimism out there to find than before in human history, especially with people calling out the positive stories.
At least in my experience.
I hope you do. SNW is the culmination of the lessons they learned from previous Treks... the audience liked Pike's charisma, and expressed a desire for a show that was more episodic, and the powers that be... listened. The pilot is especially good.
Only one caveat... most Trek shows have a "gut-kick" episode, one that delivers an uncharacteristically dark ending. "The Outcast", "Repentance", "Cogenitor", and a few of DS9's offerings are examples. S1 E6 of SNW is one of those.
TOS definitely had a lot of those as well, reflecting the very human idea that while good is something powerful and worth striving for, freedom comes from recognizing both the capacity for great good and great evil, and choosing to act on that knowledge.
I think that episode has that in some interesting ways, and reflects art across human history.
I didn't say that "dark" is a synonym for "bad". The reimagining of "When the Bough Breaks" I mentioned earlier was actually quite dark in itself, a far cry from the sickly-sweet "yay, the Enterprise kids are home and the Aldeans can have babies of their own and Picard's got a toy tribble stuck on his shirt" of canon. Sometimes, a dark ending is the best way to make a point, or resolve a conflict, or set up a sequel. But, Lynx had mentioned being less than happy with the doom and gloom of other live action nu Treks. I was simply letting him know that while SNW has a lighter tone than, say, PIC does... but it's not above the occasional bleak ending. Nor should it be.
I probably could have said what I meant differently. The idea of dark being actually a very strong positive in storytelling because it highlights the good we have. I don't agree with Lynx on the whole "doom and gloom" state of media, but that's largely owing to the fact that to me, bleak stories are not an indication of a bleak outlook. They are, in fact, a way for us to look our very nature and find the good in it, and not just being pandered to with the "happily ever after" fairy tales.
In other words, absolutely a dark ending is the best way to make a point because it cuts in to our very nature as human beings who long for something more transcendental and good.
Sure he was. Right before "Caretaker". Problem is, pretty much every other ensign went on to better things. Nog, who wasn't even a cadet when Voyager visited DS9, was a lieutenant when it returned. That's right, in 2371, he could have brought Harry a mug of ale. In 2378, Harry has to call him "sir".
How do you even remember that?!
We didn't see him right before "Caretaker". He was already an ensign when we saw him in Quark's, about to be plucked like a chicken. But we know Voyager was his first assignment, so he had to have just gotten his ensign's pip.
We also see the career he should have had, in "Non Sequitur". He's eight months out of the academy, he and his girlfriend have gotten serious, and he's distinguished himself so thoroughly, his boss says that he's one presentation away from his hollow pip. But of course, he gets Voyager instead. Complete with lousy food, multiple romantic disasters, and a captain who is apparently determined to trash his career completely.
We also see the career he should have had, in "Non Sequitur". He's eight months out of the academy, he and his girlfriend have gotten serious, and he's distinguished himself so thoroughly, his boss says that he's one presentation away from his hollow pip. But of course, he gets Voyager instead. Complete with lousy food, multiple romantic disasters, and a captain who is apparently determined to trash his career completely.
And he chooses that option.
They've done this. There's a Voyager continuation book series that you can consider to be about as close to official as it gets, because it's written by Kirsten Beyer. (It's good, too.) Harry's a full lieutenant.
Hence the moniker "poor dumb Harry Kim", I expect.
I wouldn't have a problem with an officer who didn't get promoted... if they were so stupid, incompetent, or bad-behaved they didn't deserve to be. My problem occurs when they do deserve it, and it doesn't happen, or goes to another. Like Troi vs. Data, or Harry vs. Tom. In both those instances, the less deserving officer got the pip.
"Homecoming" by Christine Golden is a good one as well, Harry and the other long-suffering ensigns (Wildman, Vorik) quickly get bumped up. My favorite book on the subject is "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway", by Una McCormack, who basically says that she personally promoted Harry as her last act as Voyager's captain, delivering a well-deserved "screw you" to Voyager's writers. It further states that he was rapidly promoted in the ensuing years, ultimately gaining his own command.
Problem is, all it takes is one team of writers who want to continue that nasty game the VOY writers were playing, and they can overwrite all of that. They set canon. Book writers can't.
I agree that "doom and gloom" can be a part of human storytelling and it can be good if it is well-written and don't dominate in a series or a book.
Like in DS9 where some episodes could be considered as gloomy. But there were always lighter episodes and some humor in between as well.
The same with aseries like NCIS where there was a lot of action and some episodes could be considered as "dark" but it had strong characters and some humor as well.
That is something I miss in all series and movies today.
The doom and gloom has taken over and we have blood splattering scenes, long torture scenes and everything seems to be set in a very dark world. The characters are stale and so hampered by political correctnes that they don't have a chance to develope or even being interesting.
Take CSI Vegas for example. I started to watch this series when I found out that Gil Grissom and Sara Sidle should be in it. Unfortunately the channel which was airing it disappeared from my area after some episodes.
When the series came back later on another channel, my immeduiate reaction was: What have they done?
No Grissom, no Sidle, only Catherine Willows and a bunch of totally uninteresting characters.
As for NCIS, I saw the writing on the wall when we had "The Covid episode". The series started to crumble there and then.
And when Gibbs and Ellie went out and were replaced by two unlikeable characters, that was the end of the line for me. Now I don't watch any series.
As for SF series, while the series and movies made in the 90:s were about people exploring space, most of what we have today is people expoloring space because the Earth is devastated.
If there is optimism out there, than I haven't found it.
As I wrote in my comment above, I agree that "doom and gloom" can be a part of human storytelling and it can be good if it is well-written and don't dominate in a series or a book.
Like in DS9 where some episodes could be considered as gloomy. But there were always lighter episodes and some humor in between as well.
Which is a reason why I'm about to give SNW a chance.
But wouldn't the Non Sequitur scenario be very boring for poor Harry?
His life on Voyager was much more interesting.
Not to mention that if the Non Sequitur scenario had been preserved, thenpoor Danny Bird had been the whipping boy of the series instead and then you may have complained about how badly poor Danny had been treated.
And what about poor Tom? Trapped in an alternate universe as a drunken loser in Marseilles.
Arent you a bit unfair to Tom? I do think that he deserved his promotion.
Homecoming is OK, I think. Christie Golden did a good job in giving our heroes a good and realistic homecoming.
As for the "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway", by Una McCormack, it is my plan to buy it and read it. Unfortunately, I had to deal with som unexpected and unwanted expenses in the recent months so I had to postpone some planned investments but I'm planning to give the book to myself as a Christmas Gift.
As for "canon", book writers and other writers can at least "write around the problems" without ruining canon if they have the guts to do so. No problem at all to give Harry a promotion, especially since the chances are very small that the Voyager characters will show up in some coming Star Trek series or movie, maybe except for Janeway and Seven.
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Sorry to hear that.
I find it everywhere.
Pretty much been part of my SF experience since I read Heinlein.
I'd suggest a used book site. You can get it for $7 or so.
I do as well. Note that I said LESS deserving. If Tom deserved to get his hollow pip back for 1-1/2 years of "exemplary" work, didn't Harry deserve his, given that he put in had been doing comparably good work for over four times that long?
As for Data, I'd assume that perhaps completing the Bridge Officer Test with a good result is a formal (necessary but not sufficient) requirement, and Data simply couldn't complete some part of it, ever. Suppose for example there's a 'soft skills exam', where he has to reconcile two of his subordinates that have a long-standing feud and he fails that one every time, no matter how hard he tries.
I'll agree that it's weird though, since of course in practice Data is much more of a bridge (command) officer than Deanna, and this seems to be recognised by the crew as well, despite their formal ranks.
I'll agree that it's weird though, since of course in practice Data is much more of a bridge (command) officer than Deanna, and this seems to be recognised by the crew as well, despite their formal ranks.
I always assumed that test was only for blue shirts who wouldn't be trained for command from the start unlike red and gold shirts. Gold and Red seem be able to easily switch departments, blue not so much.
Frankly, that sounds a lot likelier than my own assumption.
Except Data is the third in command of the flagship, and has commanded both the Enterprise and the Sutherland*. Remember that in "Redemption", he asked why he had not been selected to command a ship. If he was not a bridge officer, the answer would be obvious.
*And in the case of the latter, he singlehandedly kicked the Romulans out of the Klingon Civil War, saving the Federation from a very bad situation.
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