Garrett Wang

[Oddish]

I don't know...giving him a promotion by this point would seem wrong.

And... why exactly? It was a testament to the incompetence of Voyager's showrunners that he wasn't promoted by the time Seven showed up, or during the interim before "Night" at the very latest. Said showrunners were having Janeway and Chakotay and others yak yak yakking about how he's one of the bright spots on the mission, and that he's one of their best people, but at the same time giving him the career path of a hopeless misfit... I don't know whether they were that dumb, they thought we were that dumb, orcthey just wanted to piss us off. Regardless, why in the Vaults of Eternal Destitution should the current powers that be continue their mistake?

I don't think Harry's Captain material. But I do want to see him as a Lieutenant.

Interestingly, while other characters' non-canon fates have varied wildly based on who wrote them, Harry's been pretty consistent. Ironically, the only person of note who suggested a different life path for him was Garrett Wang himself.

 

[Sumire]

I think Harry can be anything! He’s like a dammed river. All that potential, all that possibility! TPTB gave him such meager development, if someone has grandiose plans for him in current canon? What proof is there to be found that he couldn’t be that?

 

[Ragitsu]

And... why exactly? It was a testament to the incompetence of Voyager's showrunners that he wasn't promoted by the time Seven showed up, or during the interim before "Night" at the very latest. Said showrunners were having Janeway and Chakotay and others yak yak yakking about how he's one of the bright spots on the mission, and that he's one of their best people, but at the same time giving him the career path of a hopeless misfit... I don't know whether they were that dumb, they thought we were that dumb, orcthey just wanted to piss us off. Regardless, why in the Vaults of Eternal Destitution should the current powers that be continue their mistake?

He has accumulated an amusing reputation as the Eternal Ensign. Do we really want to let a little thing like logic get in the way of a running gag approximately a quarter of a century old?

 

[Oddish]

A "running gag" as mean-spirited as that one was should not have happened in the first place.

 

[Ragitsu]

A "running gag" as mean-spirited as that one was should not have happened in the first place.

Just to be clear, how much of the decision to keep his initial rank in perpetuity can be attributed to (possibly misguided) writers as opposed to petty backroom television politics?

 

[IAmAParrot]

And... why exactly? It was a testament to the incompetence of Voyager's showrunners that he wasn't promoted by the time Seven showed up, or during the interim before "Night" at the very latest. Said showrunners were having Janeway and Chakotay and others yak yak yakking about how he's one of the bright spots on the mission, and that he's one of their best people, but at the same time giving him the career path of a hopeless misfit... I don't know whether they were that dumb, they thought we were that dumb, orcthey just wanted to piss us off. Regardless, why in the Vaults of Eternal Destitution should the current powers that be continue their mistake?



Interestingly, while other characters' non-canon fates have varied wildly based on who wrote them, Harry's been pretty consistent. Ironically, the only person of note who suggested a different life path for him was Garrett Wang himself.

It's BERMANS FAULT. Man its astonishing how he was allowed to be showrunner given he had ZERO experience in any decent show much less a large one. He must have been hired by a friend. It was his idea to keep ensign kim and ensign. He said "someone has to be an ensign". Seriously I can't stand Berman and no one did. He was such a arrogant knob suffering massively from the Dunning Kruger effect. He always thought he knew better and tried to unnecessarily "excercise his power" for no reason, just to act like he's the "tough guy" who gives the orders, and just to feel important. A classic sign of massive insecurity and an inferiority complex masquerading as a superiority complex if you ask me. Anyone who has to act mean and act like the boss and ruin people's day by ordering them around or not listening to their suggestions or advice suggests massively from Dunning Kruger, and insecurity and inferiority complex

 

[Oddish]

Just to be clear, how much of the decision to keep his initial rank in perpetuity can be attributed to (possibly misguided) writers as opposed to petty backroom television politics?

Unknown. However, consider what happened with every single other ensign in Trek up to then...
Chekhov: Promoted from ensign st unknown time. Ultimately reached Commander rank.
Wesley: Promoted from acting ensign to full ensign after 3 yrs.
Ro: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 2-3 years.
Ogawa: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 3 years.
Nog: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 2 years.
Ezri: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant pretty much right away.
Paris: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 1-1/2 years.

No other ensign in Trek up to then remained an ensign for even four years, much less seven. And as for "somebody gotta be duh ensign", TNG and DS9 both did fine without ensigns in their main cast for the majority of their run.

Further, consider that whoever came up with this, it was important to them. Undoubtedly, after Tom was promoted in the S6 finale, people wrote in, demanding to know why Harry didn't find a little box on his chair. Instead of simply quietly accommodating them, the showrunners doubled down hard on it, making it quite clear in episodes like "Nightingale" that Harry was staying an ensign, and you if you have a problem with that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Unknown. However, consider what happened with every single other ensign in Trek up to then...
Chekhov: Promoted from ensign st unknown time. Ultimately reached Commander rank.
Wesley: Promoted from acting ensign to full ensign after 3 yrs.
Ro: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 2-3 years.
Ogawa: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 3 years.
Nog: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 2 years.
Ezri: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant pretty much right away.
Paris: Promoted from ensign to lieutenant after 1-1/2 years.

No other ensign in Trek up to then remained an ensign for even four years, much less seven. And as for "somebody gotta be duh ensign", TNG and DS9 both did fine without ensigns in their main cast for the majority of their run.

Further, consider that whoever came up with this, it was important to them. Undoubtedly, after Tom was promoted in the S6 finale, people wrote in, demanding to know why Harry didn't find a little box on his chair. Instead of simply quietly accommodating them, the showrunners doubled down hard on it, making it quite clear in episodes like "Nightingale" that Harry was staying an ensign, and you if you have a problem with that.

He died in Deadlock.

The rest is salt.

 

[Oddish]

He died in Deadlock.

The rest is salt.

They all died in "Deadlock", and they all survived. Consider yourself desalinated.

 

[Phaser Two]

This isn't a PIC spoiler so we can talk about it openly, the article linked might have some spoilers, but I would say it's only a matter of time before Harry gets that canon promotion now that powers in charge have made note about it publicly.

Yep, I agree with this. It's coming. It will be great to see (or hear) Garrett back on screen.

 

[johnnybear]

One problem I had with ENT was that it didn't look pre-TOS at all, more like post-VOY.

Agreed. I didn't like the show to be honest outside of a couple of episodes but it's style was nothing like TOS at all and much in the vein of the recent series!
I tend to think it was another alternate reality like Yesterday's Enterprise in TNG or All Good Things or one of the many we saw in Voyager and even DS9! Maybe it was all a computer generated simulation from start to finish created by the crew of the Enterprise D as we saw in the final adventure!
JB

 

[Turd Ferguson]

And... why exactly? It was a testament to the incompetence of Voyager's showrunners that he wasn't promoted by the time Seven showed up, or during the interim before "Night" at the very latest. Said showrunners were having Janeway and Chakotay and others yak yak yakking about how he's one of the bright spots on the mission, and that he's one of their best people, but at the same time giving him the career path of a hopeless misfit... I don't know whether they were that dumb, they thought we were that dumb, orcthey just wanted to piss us off. Regardless, why in the Vaults of Eternal Destitution should the current powers that be continue their mistake?



Interestingly, while other characters' non-canon fates have varied wildly based on who wrote them, Harry's been pretty consistent. Ironically, the only person of note who suggested a different life path for him was Garrett Wang himself.

Perhaps Janeway felt, bucking for promotion, Harold Kim was putting in 150-200% effort. Now, assuming Janeway caves and promotes him (let's say, after Seven's introduction), then Harold either 1) goes all-in whining about wanting to become Lt. Commander, or 2) rests on his laurels, putting in sub-70-ish% effort because he got what he so desperately craved.

 

[DonIago]

Harold?

 

[Oddish]

Perhaps Janeway felt, bucking for promotion, Harold Kim was putting in 150-200% effort. Now, assuming Janeway caves and promotes him (let's say, after Seven's introduction), then Harold either 1) goes all-in whining about wanting to become Lt. Commander, or 2) rests on his laurels, putting in sub-70-ish% effort because he got what he so desperately craved.

Hmmm... another new one. But I can torpedo it, no worries.
Effectively, the argument you just made is an argument against promoting any officer in any context at any time.

However, to focus on Harry, consider that Harry saw Tom accomplish in 18 months what he couldn't do in 6 years. A normal response in such a case is learned helplessness: Harry realizes that he has zero chance of recognition no matter how hard he works. And that is when he stops giving 100 percent.

Also, the "bucking for a promotion" line... that was blatant character assassination against Janeway, eclipsed by the fact that the rest of that miserable episode was doing the same thing to Harry. The Kathryn Janeway I know would have responded to Harry's career concerns with compassion and understanding, not accusations.

 

[ReddishAlert]

Would having a rank in the Delta quadrant really have done Harry any good?

As a bridge officer he has a lot of oversight power over people on the ship it seems, sits in on meetings, is one of the leaders on the ship. Janeway, Tuvok, Chakotay could have still ordered him around at Lt.

Torres and Tom treat him like a peer not a subordinate.

The Doctor and Seven don’t even have ranks.

edit- now that I think of it- why didn’t Seven have a rank? Voyager starts with handing out a bunch of field commissions. Why did Janeway not care that Seven wasn’t in the command structure after assigning the Marquis specific ranks?

 

[at Quark's]

It might not have made any difference in terms of the job or his position in the hierarchy as long as they were on this isolated ship in the DQ and no other position opened up because of someone dying (*), but it would have been a formal confirmation of appreciating him doing his job well. Especially so if it is customary to hand out certain promotions in certain timeframes in Starfleet.

(*) Perhaps that was why Janeway was so adamant on getting Tuvok and Neelix back in Tuvix; it could ultimately have meant having to promote Harry if she didn't .

 

[Sumire]

I love that we got such a wide variety of plots from such a wide variety of writers but we did sacrifice some continuity of character for that.

I recently read a fanfic that postulated what I found to be a fairly charmingly believable explanation of why Harry never got a promotion. It no doubt doesn’t dovetail perfectly with every instance of his rank being noted in every episode but the same can be said for canon so… here it is:

The author postulated that a promotion from ensign to lieutenant necessitated being in complete command of a mission entirely independently of a superior officer and that poor Harry kept getting his missions interrupted by superior officers. This fits the world we see in the show. Granted, it’s actually a reflection of being on a TV show where those highest on the call sheet tend to make more appearances but it does provide a somewhat reasonable explanation for his remaining an ensign. Harry isn’t performing poorly, he is just absurdly unlucky and graciously and respectfully stands aside once again when whatever plot contrivance occurs that means Janeway or Chakotay or Tuvok shows up and, once again, takes over his mission.

 

[at Quark's]

^It's an interesting explanation. But why would that happen with Harry but not with, say, Nog?

 

[Sumire]

^It's an interesting explanation. But why would that happen with Harry but not with, say, Nog?

It’s an explanation made to fit the already established facts so… asking it to make sense in a wider universe that isn’t hampered by those established facts is asking a lot.

The no prize answer? It’s all about what happens off camera. Nog has great luck off camera, Harry’s poor luck continues to hold even when we, the audience, aren’t watching him.

 

[Oddish]

Would having a rank in the Delta quadrant really have done Harry any good?

If Voyager never returned home, perhaps not, though it would have shown Harry that his contribution was valued as much as Tuvok and Paris's. They were promoted.

edit- now that I think of it- why didn’t Seven have a rank? Voyager starts with handing out a bunch of field commissions. Why did Janeway not care that Seven wasn’t in the command structure after assigning the Marquis specific ranks?

Why didn't Neelix have a uniform? He technically did have a rank (Crewman), according to "Latent Image". Seems a bit odd that the Maquis were shanghaied but had uniforms, while Kes and Neelix joined willingly but did not.

It might not have made any difference in terms of the job or his position in the hierarchy as long as they were on this isolated ship in the DQ and no other position opened up because of someone dying (*), but it would have been a formal confirmation of appreciating him doing his job well. Especially so if it is customary to hand out certain promotions in certain timeframes in Starfleet.

Exactly. And what happens if and when Voyager gets home? Harry will probably wind up serving on a Federation garbage scow because no good assignment will want a 7-year ensign.

Perhaps that was why Janeway was so adamant on getting Tuvok and Neelix back in Tuvix; it could ultimately have meant having to promote Harry if she didn't

The notion that Janeway has it in for Harry shouldn't hold water... but thanks to the canonical events, it does.

The author postulated that a promotion from ensign to lieutenant necessitated being in complete command of a mission entirely independently of a superior officer and that poor Harry kept getting his missions interrupted by superior officers.

Were that the case, Harry would have gotten his lieutenant's pip at the end of "Nightingale". Later than he deserved it, but it would have precluded what came after. The "somebody gotta be duh ensign" garbage was done to humiliate the actor and the character, and the only thing more infuriating than the showrunners doing it in the first place was that it had exactly the intended effect. I ing hate it when bullies get what they want.