Friendship & Name Calling

[Tiberius Jim]

Okay, so help me out here guys. I need to know if I'm totally out in left field with this one or not.

I was having an argument with a friend, a very good friend actually. We've actually been romantically involved in the past, but right now we're just good friends. We have similar TV and music tastes, we think in the same ways about a lot of stuff. We basically just totally *get* each other on a lot of levels, and so we are similar in a lot of ways which is great...except one of those ways is that we are both immensely stubborn. Neither of us will give up an argument or let anything go, and both have to have the last word. As you can imagine this can be..volatile.

So we're arguing over something really trivial but that got blown out of proportion. Basically, I tend to suggest that she see certain movies. I am a big movie buff and she's been pretty sheltered as to what she's seen. She will say no, that she doesn't want to see it. I ask why not, because I think she'd like it. She accuses me of forcing it onto her, but I just want to know a logical reason why she doesn't want to see it...and the argument ensues.

So tonight, we were arguing over the fact that I "harass" her about it. Long story short, she used a really bad anology (comparing movies to cigarettes) and when I didn't see the validity of her comparison, she said "youre such an idiot"

Which may not seem like a lot to some, but this girl has *never* called me a name before. Nor have I ever called her anything. So this came as a bit of a shock.

Her defense when I called her on it? She says she's wanted to call me names in the past, and held back. And she wanted to call me worse names than "idiot" but held back...

...as if that makes this one time justified?

Am I really supposed to just take it and shrug it off just because she *could have* said more? And on more occasions? I don't think so!

I might be totally blowing *this* out of proportion because I'm still mad. She did apologize but it was the very forced, insincere apology of someone who just wants the other person to shut up. Anyway, am I totally off base here or am I right in that she can't justify it like that?

 

[Amaris]

Okay, so help me out here guys. I need to know if I'm totally out in left field with this one or not.

I was having an argument with a friend, a very good friend actually. We've actually been romantically involved in the past, but right now we're just good friends. We have similar TV and music tastes, we think in the same ways about a lot of stuff. We basically just totally *get* each other on a lot of levels, and so we are similar in a lot of ways which is great...except one of those ways is that we are both immensely stubborn. Neither of us will give up an argument or let anything go, and both have to have the last word. As you can imagine this can be..volatile.

So we're arguing over something really trivial but that got blown out of proportion. Basically, I tend to suggest that she see certain movies. I am a big movie buff and she's been pretty sheltered as to what she's seen. She will say no, that she doesn't want to see it. I ask why not, because I think she'd like it. She accuses me of forcing it onto her, but I just want to know a logical reason why she doesn't want to see it...and the argument ensues.

So tonight, we were arguing over the fact that I "harass" her about it. Long story short, she used a really bad anology (comparing movies to cigarettes) and when I didn't see the validity of her comparison, she said "youre such an idiot"

Which may not seem like a lot to some, but this girl has *never* called me a name before. Nor have I ever called her anything. So this came as a bit of a shock.

Her defense when I called her on it? She says she's wanted to call me names in the past, and held back. And she wanted to call me worse names than "idiot" but held back...

...as if that makes this one time justified?

Am I really supposed to just take it and shrug it off just because she *could have* said more? And on more occasions? I don't think so!

I might be totally blowing *this* out of proportion because I'm still mad. She did apologize but it was the very forced, insincere apology of someone who just wants the other person to shut up. Anyway, am I totally off base here or am I right in that she can't justify it like that?

Sounds to me like emotions ran high, and some truths that are normally curtailed by civility and friendship got through. The best thing to do is see the larger picture, that your friend is still your friend, and that this is merely a bump in the road. You two can resolve it peacefully, if you're willing and she's willing.

In essence, don't sweat the small stuff.

J.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Well, I'm not so much asking if I should remain friends with this person. I'm sure I still will. The question is...is it really valid to justify the name calling by saying that she *could* have said much worse, that she wanted to but didn't and had held back that sort of thing in the past?

My analogy was a man being arrested for assault after hitting someone else. He couldn't tell the officer "Well I felt like hitting him more times, but I didn't, I just hit him once!" and be released and left to go on his way. Sure, his sentence may be less but he's still in trouble. It was still one punch too many.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I might be totally blowing *this* out of proportion because I'm still mad. She did apologize but it was the very forced, insincere apology of someone who just wants the other person to shut up. Anyway, am I totally off base here or am I right in that she can't justify it like that?

Yes, you are totally blowing this out of proportion. Just let it go, you shouldn't have even made her apologise imo. And it sounds like you were being too pushy in recommending that movie (something I occasionally do too to friends), if she isn't interested - whatever - her loss, not yours.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I agree I might have made a big deal out of it but...a friend calls you an idiot and you don't expect an apology? I don't know about that.

 

[Gertch]

Sounds like an apology is very much in order. Hopefully she'll accept yours for being harassing and overbearing. Then lighten up a little.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Sounds like an apology is very much in order. Hopefully she'll accept yours for being harassing and overbearing. Then lighten up a little.

Nicely put. I agree.

 

[Guartho]

Are you sure this is a friend? Are you sure you're not married?

 

[ria 75]

All right. I see what this is. Let me give you the linguist's answer.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. There is men's language and
there is women's language.

Men tend to be anally-retentive about the choice of particular words.
Women tend to use emphasis to get a point across and their words are often bigger than their meaning.

Woman (slightly annoyed): "I have told you a thousand times."
Man (indignant): "No, only 200 at the most."
Woman (rolls eyes): "You're an idiot."
Man (aghast): "If that's how you feel about me, what have you been doing with me?"
etc., etc.

But Woman wouldn't be with Man if she didn't really like him. And maybe her definition of 'idiot' is milder than his.

Guys, don't forget "kiss me, stupid". That's such a womanly thing to say.

I'm even tempted to say that's men-women relationships in a nutshell.
But Hermy would argue I'm being reductive.

Flux Capacitor, if your friend didn't call you the names she had for you in her head, it must have been because she realized they would hurt you disproportionately to her intent. Today she's comfortable enough to let them out of the bag.
Either you've outlived your boyish charms, or...

...or maybe she was just PMSing. Believe me.

And maybe she thinks that this far in your relationship, you can withstand it. (You two do sound like an old married couple.)
Maybe this was like a test you didn't pass, and she was disappointed (and barely apologized) because she wanted you to pass it.

Also, perhaps she barely apologized because (stereotype alert) perhaps women don't like to jump out of quarrels all of a sudden, as if nothing had happened, as readily as men do. Some people want to wipe the slate, others see it as denial.

Or it's just a case of not going back on one's word. Pride, and stubbornness, as you put it.

 

[An Officer]

If you've admitted to "harassing" her, and a simple "no" is never enough for you, then what do you expect?

It's not right that she should namecall, but it's understandable. Especially if you've annoyed her to the point where she's not able to censor what she says. Perhaps she has a particular problem with being controlled?

Recommending something once is enough, you don't need to wait for a definite reply either way... the gentler approach would be to let her come talk to you about it, when she gets around to it. If she's forced and badgered, she's never going to enjoy herself anyway!

 

[Tiberius Jim]

That's he thing though, I don't feel as if I harass her. I don't badger her about seeing a movie that I want her to see, I'm just curious as to why she doesn't want to and ask for a logical reason why. I do understand though that she doesn't want to have to give an answer every time, if ever, but that's just how I operate...needing a logical reason for things. To me, she just seems really stubborn and closed minded when it comes to things like movies and music, and all I want to do is share things with her that I like that I think she'd like too.

Hah, and no we definitely aren't married...though sometimes it feels like we are. I don't know if it would work, she actually watched Back to the Future at my request and...said she thought it was lame.

 

[1001001]

Are you sure this is a friend? Are you sure you're not married?

Exactly.

My wife calls me an idiot every day.

 

[Spot's Meow]

Always steer clear of analogies. Talk about the situation at hand, never bring analogies into it because the argument will inevitably turn towards how silly your analogy is rather than the actual issue.

Everyone has a different tolerance for name-calling. Some people are very sensitive about it and others aren't. She may not see it as such a big deal. She was probably holding back because she knew you were sensitive about it, but since you aren't dating anymore and you made her angry, she didn't see as much of a need to hold back for you. If she saw it as a big deal to call you that, she probably would have felt really guilty and apologized right away, or she might have really thought you were an idiot and wouldn't be talking to you anymore. Since neither of those happened, it seems clear to me that she didn't see it as a big deal and doesn't really think any less of you, she was really just annoyed. If she had really wanted to hurt you, there are much worse things she would have said, like "I hate you and never want to see you again."

Also, just because someone leaves name-calling out of an argument doesn't mean what they are saying is any less hurtful. Being overly sarcastic, unresponsive, or just not caring is much worse than a simple word.

 

[Lookingglassman]

I once dated a chick who was into Indian Bollywood movies which all SUCK! She kept bugging me to watch them with her and I dumped her. Before we broke up, though, I did attempt to watch one with her, but I couldnt last 10 minutes.

 

[DonIago]

That's he thing though, I don't feel as if I harass her. I don't badger her about seeing a movie that I want her to see, I'm just curious as to why she doesn't want to and ask for a logical reason why. I do understand though that she doesn't want to have to give an answer every time, if ever, but that's just how I operate...needing a logical reason for things. To me, she just seems really stubborn and closed minded when it comes to things like movies and music, and all I want to do is share things with her that I like that I think she'd like too.

Hah, and no we definitely aren't married...though sometimes it feels like we are. I don't know if it would work, she actually watched Back to the Future at my request and...said she thought it was lame.

Oy. It doesn't matter _at all_ whether you feel that you're harassing her. What matters is whether _she_ feels that you're harassing her. She indicated that she does feel that way, so, if you want to keep the friendship intact, ease back a bit.

I too have problems when people take a stance I can't understand and are unwilling to explain why they feel that way. But there are times when trying to determine a reason _is_ overbearing and counter-productive. You've got to let things go sometimes.

BTW, when someone says "I've wanted to call you worse things but I haven't..." take it as a sign that she cares enough about your friendship to have held back...but that now you're entering a real danger zone, and if you want to maintain the friendship you _need_ to rein yourself in a bit.

Also, presumably she doesn't _really_ think you're an idiot, or she wouldn't be friends with you to begin with...unless she tends to enjoy the company of idiots. People get caught up in their emotions and say things they don't mean all the time. If the friendship's important to you, let it slide. If your pride is more important to you, then go ahead and say that you feel entitled to an apology...but realize that at that point you're making a conscious choice to jeopardize the friendship.

 

[Guartho]

I don't badger her about seeing a movie that I want her to see, I'm just curious as to why she doesn't want to and ask for a logical reason why.

We don't need logical reasons for selecting how to use our available entertainment time. I'd say asking for one more than once qualifies as badgering.

I know that I'd feel nagged if my wife asked me even once for a logical explanation about why I didn't want to watch a particular movie or read a particular book. It's not a court of law, I don't have a case to win and I don't have to justify anything. That's probably how she's feeling.

I also know how frustrating it can be to want to share something that you know someone will really enjoy.

 

[archeryguy1701]

For the justification, "I could have said worse" is a terrible defense. However, I think what's acceptable varies from friendship to friendship. A large number of my friends call me a sarcastic asshole, both to my face and to others, and that doesn't bother me. For other people, if someone says the other person is stupid, then it's like the world is ending.
If this is really bothering you, talk to her about it when emotions aren't running as high. However, don't go in looking for an apology. Go in with the goal of having her understand that it is bothering you. She doesn't necessarily have to apologize, but if she's as good of a friend as you say, she'll take what you say to heart and try to refrain from doing it again.

 

[Snow]

Why should I give you a reason for my "no"?
Why should I have to give you a reason for my "no"?
Why should even the reasoning behind my "no" have to be either logical or to your understanding?
Who is being stubborn and close-minded?
I'm asked a question. I say 'no'. Move on.

 

[Gertch]

Are you sure this is a friend? Are you sure you're not married?

Exactly.

My wife calls me an idiot every day.

Well she is a smart woman.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I guess I'm just looking at it from my perspective. She's told me to check out movies in the past, and I have. Why? Because it's just a movie. It's maybe 90-120 minutes of my life, and if my friend thinks I'll like the movie, then I might even end up with a new favorite for my collection. If not, no big deal but at least I gave it a shot. I just don't know what's so hard about that.

I did give her a call this morning to apologize. I got her voicemail (either she wasn't awake, unable to take the call or...just didn't want to) and left a message apologizing and asking her to give me a call later. Today just seems like I worse day than normal to be mad at each other.