Final Trailer!

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Apparently season 3 will be far more allegorical in it's political elements.

Thank. God.

One of the biggest things I have loathed with modern writers is the hackneyed, often shoehorned CURRENT YEAR political plotline. It dates the show, ages like soured milk and is often completely at odds with the setting portrayed.

"Oh, but Trek's always been political."

It has, you're perfectly correct.

However there is an absolute gulf between using political themes to tell a story and beating your audience over the head with a jarring cause celebre that becomes old by the next news cycle.

I skipped out on ENT during first-run. I watched it during the Quarantine and this was my takeaway: S1 was kind-of okay (the more they focused on stuff specific to the 22nd Century, the better), S2 was a snore almost until the end, S3 was not my type of thing (I think it's basically Star Trek for Republicans), and S4 is the only season I truly liked and would recommend. If ENT ran seven seasons, and continued like it was in S4, I'd have liked it overall. But, because it didn't, I don't like the overall show, just that one season.

ENT suffered the mood and simple whims of the viewing public at the time. We were in a period in which the public were in a very vengeful mood after 9/11 that lasted a number of years and the hippie-peace, love and exploration message that was fairly core to Star Trek was really falling flat with general audiences especially.

From what I remember the Studio meddled with the tanking ratings and basically told Trek to go to war, hence the Xindi arc being the entirety of Season 3 and is very much an attempt to capture the mood at the time. Especially as the architect of the very real life version was still at large and people wanted him strung up.

But, like my own pointing out above, you get to re-watch it 20 years after its original broadcast... and it's aged to the point you dismissed it as "Trek for Republicans". It wasn't. It was trying to recapture the public mood as best it could from that holdover of 2001/2002 and the shock and anger felt from it.... in 2003.

Now while it was being written in 2002 and shot in 2002 it was very much the cause celebre, the invasion of Afghanistan had gone so well we were hoping to find Bin Laden within weeks, the Taliban were getting their arses absolutely kicked and obliterated pretty much any time they so much as popped their heads out etc.

By 2003 these feelings had somewhat subsided. Leading to ENT to once again miss the boat and the cultural zeitgeist.

So to dismiss it as "Trek for Republicans" is a bit disengenous but you also need more context of when it was shot than someone who just wants to watch the space explorers do their space explorerer thing 20 years later.

 

[The Wormhole]

One of the biggest things I have loathed with modern writers is the hackneyed, often shoehorned CURRENT YEAR political plotline. It dates the show, ages like soured milk and is often completely at odds with the setting portrayed.

"Oh, but Trek's always been political."

It has, you're perfectly correct.

However there is an absolute gulf between using political themes to tell a story and beating your audience over the head with a jarring cause celebre that becomes old by the next news cycle.

I mean, TOS A Private Little War was so obviously based on Vietnam.

By 2003 these feelings had somewhat subsided. Leading to ENT to once again miss the boat and the cultural zeitgeist.

In 2003 the US invaded Iraq officially to search for weapons of mass destruction. Star Trek in 2003 launched a season long storyline about the Enterprise travelling to a distant region of space to search out a weapon meant to destroy Earth. Some pretty obvious parallels there.

 

[Danja]

Disc & Pic could have been absolute bangers if the writers tried just a bit.

What would you have changed?

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

I mean, TOS A Private Little War was so obviously based on Vietnam.

It's also criticised for being so heavy handed and obvious in said portrayal. The first draft of the script was going to beat you over the head with Mongolian dress and a "Ho Chi Minh" type character somewhere. It also advocates escalation (a policy the US hadn't fully adopted yet) rather than trying to find a proper Star Trek style solution. The episode we got in the end was a little more in "here's an allegory" rather than "Minh-Ho-Chu and his hill people needing help with his Mongolian Hat on." Which we nearly did.

In 2003 the US invaded Iraq officially to search for weapons of mass destruction. Star Trek in 2003 launched a season long storyline about the Enterprise travelling to a distant region of space to search out a weapon meant to destroy Earth. Some pretty obvious parallels there.

I also completely screwed up the years in my head, principle production would be in 2003/04 for broadcast late 04. The stark difference is the "superweapon" actually existed and was used on Earth in a surprise attack that was allegorical to 9/11.

It's also a bit aged and very much in the vein of the War On Terror... which, quite frankly, Battlestar Galactica would do better a year earlier.

 

[Lord Garth]

ENT suffered the mood and simple whims of the viewing public at the time. We were in a period in which the public were in a very vengeful mood after 9/11 that lasted a number of years and the hippie-peace, love and exploration message that was fairly core to Star Trek was really falling flat with general audiences especially.

From what I remember the Studio meddled with the tanking ratings and basically told Trek to go to war, hence the Xindi arc being the entirety of Season 3 and is very much an attempt to capture the mood at the time. Especially as the architect of the very real life version was still at large and people wanted him strung up.

Yes. I remember the time very fucking well. I was in college. I'm half-Iranian. One time a security guard stopped me for something. I set a cup down in a subway. Technically that's littering. That's my fault. He asked for me for an ID, then he saw my last name, and it went in a total other direction. He was yelling into the microphone my name, and wanted to see if I was a terrorist. Then he sounded disappointed when it turned out I wasn't wanted for anything.

So to dismiss it as "Trek for Republicans" is a bit disengenous but you also need more context of when it was shot than someone who just wants to watch the space explorers do their space explorerer thing 20 years later.

No. I know what I fucking saw. Archer endorsed torture to survive in whatever type of stupid space they were in. They said they needed to do that to survive. It made me thinking of Dick Cheney and waterboarding and Guantanamo and the torture they had going on there. AND THEY PORTRAYED IT IN A POSITIVE LIGHT!!!!!!!! They have no excuses. Archer's not from another planet, or another universe, or another society. And he was the main character! He's supposed to be the prototype for Starship Captains.

I know what I saw and I stand by what I fucking said. Enterprise is a right-wing Republican Star Trek show. And it will ALWAYS be my least favorite Star Trek series. It also doesn't help that Manny Coto is a Conservative.

But now we're getting waaaayyyy off-topic.

 

[Sumire]

I’m so sorry you had to experience that xenophobia up close and personally @Lord Garth. I was living abroad during those years but I remember the first time I returned home to the USA, it was deeply unsettling. I returned to a country that felt absolutely alien to the one I had left, and that was with none of that fear and anger pointed directly at me. To have a show from a franchise I love echo the same sentiment? It is no wonder it remains a painful memory.

 

[Lord Garth]

Anyway, ice-breaker, that transitions out from where we were. Back then, if you ever told me that one day I'd be looking this forward to what's basically going to be an eight-hour TNG Movie, I don't think I would've believed you. If you told me "someone else will be helming it!" and "they'll make it as good as First Contact!", then I would've. But I was so done with the Old Guard at the time, and I didn't want more of what we got from Insurrection and Nemesis.

The first-half of PIC's second season was better than the second-half, and Terry was more involved with the first-half. Also, from the way he's talked, I can tell he's a huge fan of TNG, he's the right age, and I think he agrees with a lot of us that Nemesis wasn't the best send-off. That's why I have faith in the third season.

I also like that he approached all the actors and asked them where they'd see their characters at this point in their lives, to make sure what they want is accommodated. Not just Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner.

When they released the trailer for Beyond, I remember people knee-jerk reacting to it. Then it ultimately turned out be the Kelvin Film that old-schoolers liked the most. So you can't go by trailers. They over-represent the action-y stuff and the one-liners. Stuff that you'd normally see in a trailer. You'd think people would know better than this by now.

Anyone who looks at the trailer and writes the whole thing off based on that and thinks that's all the season is are people who are looking for Confirmation Bias, so they can stay as against PIC as they are. These are not people who are willing to go in with an open mind. They already made up their mind and are looking for anything that supports what they think while ignoring or rejecting anything else that counters it.

 

[cooleddie74]

BEY's trailer was pure shite. It might be one of the worst movie trailers for a franchise I love that I've ever seen. The film was almost the polar opposite.

 

[fireproof78]

Trailers are definitely something that bring out my cynical side. I don't trust a single one.

 

[Danja]

I also like that he approached all the actors and asked them where they'd see their characters at this point in their lives, to make sure what they want is accommodated. Not just Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner.

Terry pitched Evan, Isa, Alison, and Santiago over the side!

I find it difficult to believe that he approached ALL the actors. (Soji is still stuck on that planet!)

 

[Lord Garth]

Terry pitched Evan, Isa, Alison, and Santiago over the side!

I find it difficult to believe that he approached ALL the actors.

I meant the TNG actors.

... But yes.

 

[ToddCam]

Yes. I remember the time very fucking well. I was in college. I'm half-Iranian. One time a security guard stopped me for something. I set a cup down in a subway. Technically that's littering. That's my fault. He asked for me for an ID, then he saw my last name, and it went in a total other direction. He was yelling into the microphone my name, and wanted to see if I was a terrorist. Then he sounded disappointed when it turned out I wasn't wanted for anything.


No. I know what I fucking saw. Archer endorsed torture to survive in whatever type of stupid space they were in. They said they needed to do that to survive. It made me thinking of Dick Cheney and waterboarding and Guantanamo and the torture they had going on there. AND THEY PORTRAYED IT IN A POSITIVE LIGHT!!!!!!!! They have no excuses. Archer's not from another planet, or another universe, or another society. And he was the main character! He's supposed to be the prototype for Starship Captains.

I know what I saw and I stand by what I fucking said. Enterprise is a right-wing Republican Star Trek show. And it will ALWAYS be my least favorite Star Trek series. It also doesn't help that Manny Coto is a Conservative.

But now we're getting waaaayyyy off-topic.

The torture thing was driving me crazy. I wanted them to firmly state that it was not a good means of getting information, but they never did.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Anyway, ice-breaker, that transitions out from where we were. Back then, if you ever told me that one day I'd be looking this forward to what's basically going to be an eight-hour TNG Movie, I don't think I would've believed you. If you told me "someone else will be helming it!" and "they'll make it as good as First Contact!", then I would've. But I was so done with the Old Guard at the time, and I didn't want more of what we got from Insurrection and Nemesis.

To be honest this whole method of binge-watchable TV and effectively 8-10 hour movies with the modern streaming format and "limited series" idea absolutely blows my mind and lets you really savour a story. Like I'm in my mid-30s and the way that film and TV has so radically changed in my lifetime is simply astounding. I'm in the same boat as you, "Oh by the way, there's going to be another TNG movie, and it's ten hours long." would've turned me off even ten years ago. Now I'm sceptical but excited.

The first-half of PIC's second season was better than the second-half, and Terry was more involved with the first-half. Also, from the way he's talked, I can tell he's a huge fan of TNG, he's the right age, and I think he agrees with a lot of us that Nemesis wasn't the best send-off. That's why I have faith in the third season.

As I said elsewhere Nemesis is definitely not a good movie, and feels more like a sci-fi movie from another franchise in a desperate attempt from a franchise that had run out of steam, road and ideas and it paid for it at the box office. When you factor in the cost of tie-ins and other stuff as well as minimal marketing it probably still lost money and was just a writeoff for the studio.

I also like that he approached all the actors and asked them where they'd see their characters at this point in their lives, to make sure what they want is accommodated. Not just Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner.

I wonder about this, because we've known where Michael Dorn wants Worf to be for the better part of 20 years. His pitch for the Worf TV show was to be a deep study of what it means to be a Klingon and he's touring the Empire on behalf of Chancellor Martok who is looking to retire, it was to be very planet/issue of the week show in which Worf would resolve political, military and natural issues, even going so far as to offer new relationships to subjugated races and planets within the Empire influenced by his time within the Federation and realising its own strengths. He was told by Matalas what had happened to his character instead, to Dorn's apparent shock.

Anyone who looks at the trailer and writes the whole thing off based on that and thinks that's all the season is are people who are looking for Confirmation Bias, so they can stay as against PIC as they are. These are not people who are willing to go in with an open mind. They already made up their mind and are looking for anything that supports what they think while ignoring or rejecting anything else that counters it.

I will admit I knee jerked when I first heard Worf now practised Pacifism but on further thought and reflection what is more honourable than a warrior who makes sure every last other option is exhausted before he absolutely cuts you to Sashimi? My take will be open mind, sceptical eye.

 

[gvn2fly]

I wonder about this, because we've known where Michael Dorn wants Worf to be for the better part of 20 years. His pitch for the Worf TV show was to be a deep study of what it means to be a Klingon and he's touring the Empire on behalf of Chancellor Martok who is looking to retire, it was to be very planet/issue of the week show in which Worf would resolve political, military and natural issues, even going so far as to offer new relationships to subjugated races and planets within the Empire influenced by his time within the Federation and realising its own strengths. He was told by Matalas what had happened to his character instead, to Dorn's apparent shock.

Not doubting you, but do you have a source for all that because I'd love to learn more. I know Dorn had been pitching a Worf show in the past but I don't recall reading the rest or that Dorn was shocked.

I do think some of this "work with the actors on their characters" is a bit PR and probably not 100 percent accurate. I feel like I've read this before for other returning franchises and then later we learn it wasn't really like that. Matalas probably did work with them to some extent, and I'm sure had to in order for them to sign on, but he's also said this is a story he had in mind even before the Picard show premiered. So I'm sure he tries to work with the actors and take their considerations into account where possible, but in the end its his story not theirs.

 

[fireproof78]

I will admit I knee jerked when I first heard Worf now practised Pacifism but on further thought and reflection what is more honourable than a warrior who makes sure every last other option is exhausted before he absolutely cuts you to Sashimi? My take will be open mind, sceptical eye.

Here's a book. Something I learned about recently in a training that I found very applicable.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Not doubting you, but do you have a source for all that because I'd love to learn more. I know Dorn had been pitching a Worf show in the past but I don't recall reading the rest or that Dorn was shocked.

I do think some of this "work with the actors on their characters" is a bit PR and probably not 100 percent accurate. I feel like I've read this before for other returning franchises and then later we learn it wasn't really like that. Matalas probably did work with them to some extent, and I'm sure had to in order for them to sign on, but he's also said this is a story he had in mind even before the Picard show premiered. So I'm sure he tries to work with the actors and take their considerations into account where possible, but in the end its his story not theirs.

It's fairly fragmented over various articles and stuff but I've pretty much given the synopsis/proposal above. This Article here says the same thing

 

[DaveyNY]

Most of their guesses seem accurate, but they’re way off with the Babylon 5 ship. They’re looking at it from the wrong angle.

Yeah, that ship all the way to the left obviously has a Nacelle sticking out it.
And I'm thinking that the one they described as a "knife shape", is probably an Andorian Cruiser.

 

[Tuskin38]

I wonder if Cryptic will adopt the new Spacedock design in Star Trek Online sometime after the season airs, then throw the current one off in a corner somewhere like it is in this trailer. Would be a good place to do their first contact ship museum event, if it is a museum in Season 2.

Most of their guesses seem accurate, but they’re way off with the Babylon 5 ship.

I think Samuel was joking.
They also did a live stream yesterday, and now they think it might be a D7/K't'inga

 

[cooleddie74]

If that is a Kumari-class Andorian warship on display maybe it's Shran's and it served on the frontlines of the Earth-Romulan War in the late 2150s. A ship "that helped build the Federation."

 

[James Cole]

Thank. God.

One of the biggest things I have loathed with modern writers is the hackneyed, often shoehorned CURRENT YEAR political plotline. It dates the show, ages like soured milk and is often completely at odds with the setting portrayed.

"Oh, but Trek's always been political."

It has, you're perfectly correct.

However there is an absolute gulf between using political themes to tell a story and beating your audience over the head with a jarring cause celebre that becomes old by the next news cycle.

This, so much this. And Star Trek's politics have mostly been allegorical, and reflected humanist modernist liberalism. So it's great to hear that Picard season 3 should be free from this trend.