Fan Film Creation and Critique

[fireproof78]

I think if you put any kind of creative work out there, it is bound to be criticized and that level of criticism is up to the eye of the beholder of the creative work. For something like Hidden Frontier which had terrible green screen special effects and an okay story at best (admittedly, I did only watch a few seasons of that just because I wasn't interested in the story), I was a little more forgiving. But as others have said, when you bring in the likes of Walter Koenig, George Takei, Denise Crosby (okay, maybe not her ), Tim Russ, Gary Graham, etc., etc., etc., when you claim your fan film is going to be pitched as a pilot to CBS, when you compare it to and think you can do better than the current film franchise, yeah, I'm going to judge it a lot more harshly.

And yes, as someone else mentioned, I'm going to take the personalities of those involved into play too. Just like I do for actors in professional productions. Is it right? Probably not. But as a human being, sometimes its hard to disconnect the two.

So yeah, I judged Renegades more harshly than I did Hidden Frontier. And I'm sure going to judge Axanar on the same level I do the JJ films because they have made some pretty steep claims to the quality of their production. Don't mistake me. As much disdain as I have for some of those who say Axanar is the saving grace of "True Trek", I would like to see it succeed in what the producers want it to do.

I understand this position. As much as I try not to buy in to publicity and hype, if the production staff are putting claims out there, I find it difficult to to not to allow that to influence my judgement. Not that I'm keeping a record of their perceived promises, so much as that is in the back of my mind.

I want to see Axanar, because, as a concept, because it explores a facet of Star Trek lore that I find enjoyable. Beyond that, anything else makes me cautious.

I review on the notion that these productions want to improve their product on the next round. When I critique, I try to balance praise for what was done well with opportunities that can be improved upon in the next venture.

This is my point of view as well. Thank you for putting it succinctly.

My main frustration is criticism that is unbalanced with no love or recognition of what was done well. This is true of professional productions, but fan productions suffer from the same as well. The trouble is that such discouragement can mean that those production companies simply stop with no desire to continue on because of lack of support.

Regardless of personal feelings towards production teams, I do want to see fan productions succeed in their goals.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

There is no way, I would ever compare something like Project Potemkin to even something like Star Trek Continues, or Renegades, or Axanar....

I am not a fan of comparing stuff, unless it really can be an apples to apples comparison and with Fan films, varying experience, goals, budgets, I can't say it can be done in a realistic manner.... It's like comparing a steak I get a Roadhouse to a steak I get at Ruth Chris....

 

[Tom Hendricks]

Best Steak I've ever had was at Uncle Jacks Steak House on 9th Ave in Manhattan. I still dream about that steak.

 

[Jedman67]

I've seen one or two episodes of STC, and Prelude.
STC blew me away - i would definitely not put it at the same level as a commercial TV production; but for a fan-film it came pretty darn close. My main criticism of STC is that it feels too "clean", and sometimes it feels like the actors are parodying the TOS cast - like playing (expensive) dress-up. Aside from those small issues, i thoroughly enjoyed watching it. Prelude really did feel like a professional production, and being that it was produced by hollywood professionals really came through.
I tried watching ST:NV a couple times but I could never get into it for more than a few minutes at a time.

 

[fireproof78]

I've seen one or two episodes of STC, and Prelude.
STC blew me away - i would definitely not put it at the same level as a commercial TV production; but for a fan-film it came pretty darn close. My main criticism of STC is that it feels too "clean", and sometimes it feels like the actors are parodying the TOS cast - like playing (expensive) dress-up. Aside from those small issues, i thoroughly enjoyed watching it. Prelude really did feel like a professional production, and being that it was produced by hollywood professionals really came through.
I tried watching ST:NV a couple times but I could never get into it for more than a few minutes at a time.

I think you make an interesting point regarding NV feeling like expensive dress-up. I think that is part of the reason that a fan production will never feel like an official production due to that feeling of them existing in the shadow of official productions.

That's really my point of divergence between fan and official. Fan productions are often existing in the shadow of the original shows, attempting to emulate storytelling from a past era that may be difficult to recreate.

This is not to disparage any production whatsoever and kudos to groups that dedicate the time and resources to creating bridge sets and uniform material, and the like. I just feel like holding fan productions to official standards is forcing them to try too hard to achieve a level of sophistication and then being disappointed because they couldn't make it.

Maybe it is just me

 

[Maurice]

...My main criticism of STC is that it feels too "clean", and sometimes it feels like the actors are parodying the TOS cast - like playing (expensive) dress-up.

I think you make an interesting point regarding NV feeling like expensive dress-up.

No, he didn't say NV. He said STC.

 

[martok2112]

Best Steak I've ever had was at Uncle Jacks Steak House on 9th Ave in Manhattan. I still dream about that steak.

Although I wouldn't say these were the best steaks, I miss getting steaks at USA Steakhouse (and buffet) in Kearney, NE, when a couple of my old bands went on touring gigs.

 

[fireproof78]

...My main criticism of STC is that it feels too "clean", and sometimes it feels like the actors are parodying the TOS cast - like playing (expensive) dress-up.

I think you make an interesting point regarding NV feeling like expensive dress-up.

No, he didn't say NV. He said STC.

Thank you for the correction. My thoughts were all over the place and I was sure I was going to mess something up.

 

[Jedman67]

...My main criticism of STC is that it feels too "clean", and sometimes it feels like the actors are parodying the TOS cast - like playing (expensive) dress-up.

I think you make an interesting point regarding NV feeling like expensive dress-up.

No, he didn't say NV. He said STC.

I did say STC, because it was the only series production that hooked me, that I could lose myself and just watch the show. I attempted a few times to watch NV, and while the production quality is superb, the acting...feels like acting. I see the actors, not the characters, and while i'm sure they've improved since, I could never get into it.

Edit: To clarify; both STC and NV "feel" like watching fanfilms to me, more or less; but of the two STC has that edge in production quality that can make me forget i'm watching a fanfilm sometimes.

 

[fireproof78]

I think you make an interesting point regarding NV feeling like expensive dress-up.

No, he didn't say NV. He said STC.

I did say STC, because it was the only series production that hooked me, that I could lose myself and just watch the show. I attempted a few times to watch NV, and while the production quality is superb, the acting...feels like acting. I see the actors, not the characters, and while i'm sure they've improved since, I could never get into it.

Edit: To clarify; both STC and NV "feel" like watching fanfilms to me, more or less; but of the two STC has that edge in production quality that can make me forget i'm watching a fanfilm sometimes.

Your clarification is also appreciated.

Personally, I have the utmost respect for fan productions and the work that goes in to them. But, I don't look to them to entertain me like a Hollywood or "official" production would.

I don't know how to explain it, but there is a tone to the production that feels different to me. This isn't to disparage fan films because I enjoy them very much.

It just feels unnecessary, to me, to stack them up against official productions, whose tone and resources are different in their application.

 

[martok2112]

I think, honestly, I really do try to watch fan-productions like I do a regular movie or show...with one simple criteria: Entertain me.

Not everyone has access to the same resources as others when it comes to making fan works. It's kinda like a video game.... it's not always about the graphics, but the gameplay (and sometimes, the story if it is a story-driven game).

It also hearkens to the notion that "visual effects alone cannot sell a movie". Sometimes, some of those folks who do not have access to high quality CG or practical model making, and set building make up for their visual/technical shortcomings by crafting a zinger of a story.

Granted, if you have really, truly lousy visuals (a plastic starship model hung by string against a hand drawn space back drop with a basketball representing a planet), ill-fitting uniforms (when's the last time you saw a tailor, buddy), and people who couldn't act their way out of a paper bag (psst....once more, this time with feeling!) ...then, yeah, sometimes even the story, whilst well written, could be unwittingly sabotaged. But thankfully, such occurrences seem fewer and further between now.

 

[Jedman67]

On the contrary, I have little interest in watching a youtube video of a couple of kids playing dress up and pretending that their living room is the bridge of the enterprise (which i did plenty of as a kid ). If I'm going to be interested in watching, I want something that will stack up with a professional production. I have very little spare time for watching TV and such, and i'd rather not watch "star trek" at all than watch "fanfilm quality" star trek. Not withstanding that i like to keep an open mind about these things.

 

[Karzak]

The trend of late here seems to be though that where once constructive criticism was encouraged and actually in some cases requested, even that can be trounced upon and shouted down by the overly sensitive pack mentality of the fans and fan filmmakers who simply cannot abide anything other than universal adoration.

I sincerely hope that even the most bluntly stated of constructive comments will not be censored simply because they are not accolades.

 

[martok2112]

On the contrary, I have little interest in watching a youtube video of a couple of kids playing dress up and pretending that their living room is the bridge of the enterprise (which i did plenty of as a kid ). If I'm going to be interested in watching, I want something that will stack up with a professional production. I have very little spare time for watching TV and such, and i'd rather not watch "star trek" at all than watch "fanfilm quality" star trek. Not withstanding that i like to keep an open mind about these things .

Agreed.

The trend of late here seems to be though that where once constructive criticism was encouraged and actually in some cases requested, even that can be trounced upon and shouted down by the overly sensitive pack mentality of the fans and fan filmmakers who simply cannot abide anything other than universal adoration.

I sincerely hope that even the most bluntly stated of constructive comments will not be censored simply because they are not accolades.

We've seen lots of fan film makers (and even their "fans") get overly bothered just because someone took the time out to even constructively criticize their work. Yeah...that's a shame.

It's one thing to have a drive by: "Your movie sucks!" comment without explaining why one thinks it sucks. Those are understandably targets for elimination from the comments section by the makers.

It's another thing if someone actually takes the time to thoughtfully, (and, as you mentioned, with perhaps brutal honesty) constructively criticize the work. If the makers cannot accept that, then they probably have no business making fan works in the first place.

The nice thing about constructive criticism is that the purpose of it is to suggest ways one might improve upon their product. As a friend of mine once said: "Don't bring up a problem if you don't have a solution in mind. Otherwise, you're just bellyaching."

 

[USS Intrepid]

Constructive criticism is always welcome. We just released a new short a couple of weeks ago and we'd always welcome thoughtful, constructive criticism.

 

[Amaris]

I base my critique on how much the fan film is pushed. If it's touted as a potential pilot, or "professional quality!" production, I will judge it as such. If it's presented as a labor of love, and a "we did our best," I will usually judge it by different, more accommodating standards. Along those lines, claims of professional quality will always trump "labor of love," "we did our best," and "it's only a fan film," because "professional quality" isn't something you just say, because that is from where I will seat my critique.

So if someone were to tout "professional quality!" only for the film to be received poorly, and then they followed it up with "labor of love, et. al" the latter will fall on deaf ears. Don't say you have a lion, and then backpedal when it turns out to be just a mop and a coat rack.

 

[martok2112]

I base my critique on how much the fan film is pushed. If it's touted as a potential pilot, or "professional quality!" production, I will judge it as such. If it's presented as a labor of love, and a "we did our best," I will usually judge it by different, more accommodating standards. Along those lines, claims of professional quality will always trump "labor of love," "we did our best," and "it's only a fan film," because "professional quality" isn't something you just say, because that is from where I will seat my critique.

So if someone were to tout "professional quality!" only for the film to be received poorly, and then they followed it up with "labor of love, et. al" the latter will fall on deaf ears. Don't say you have a lion, and then backpedal when it turns out to be just a mop and a coat rack.

Well told!

 

[BigJake]

I base my critique on how much the fan film is pushed.

Meh.

The trend of late here seems to be though that where once constructive criticism was encouraged and actually in some cases requested, even that can be trounced upon and shouted down by the overly sensitive pack mentality of the fans and fan filmmakers who simply cannot abide anything other than universal adoration.

Sometimes I wonder what forum it is that you're reading, man.

 

[Maurice]

Methinks Karzak means the Axanar threads on this forum.

 

[BigJake]

Well I hope not, that would be a rather delusional account of them (in that Karzak was certainly the opposite of being "censored" or "trounced" or ganged-up-on in any of those threads, hopefully he doesn't see being disagreed with as the equivalent of any of those things).