Spoilers Daredevil: Born Again discussion thread

[FPAlpha]

That's what i expect from a new season of Daredevil - character moments, good writing and some serious dark places. One can see how the team got held back by Marvel#s demands to use original footage and what they can do when they're finally free of the shackles.

I loved Matt's descent this season after Foggy's death. He never really got over it or worked through it and it festers inside of him and now we see it bleed out, affecting all facets of his life making him much more aggressive and uncontrolled. He's risking his job and company, his relationship and now his very life. I wonder what needs to happen to bring him back from that path.

One thing that struck me is why Bullseye targeted Fisk - yes, they have beef since the Netflix show when he was introduced but somehow i doubt he's settling scores. I think Vanessa ordered the hit on Fisk ever since it was revealed she ordered the hit on Foggy. She has tasted the power of the underworld and is not part of Fisk anymore, i think she's playing him and that's why she shot Adam in cold blood. To get rid of something from her past and to placate Fisk.

I think we'll find out next week which promises to be one hell of an action episode with the reappearance of Frank in full Punisher mode judging by the season trailer scenes.

 

[oktay]

Here’s How Daredevil: Born Again Set Up Next Week’s ‘Very, Very, Very Violent’ Season 1 Finale

'Daredevil: Born Again' on Tuesday night set the stage for a "very, very, very violent" and "brutally tragic" Season 1 finale.

tvline.com

The show's directors say the finale will also feature shocking and brutal scenes.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Here’s How Daredevil: Born Again Set Up Next Week’s ‘Very, Very, Very Violent’ Season 1 Finale

'Daredevil: Born Again' on Tuesday night set the stage for a "very, very, very violent" and "brutally tragic" Season 1 finale.

tvline.com

The show's directors say the finale will also feature shocking and brutal scenes.

Well, considering some of the footage from the previews that hasn't been seen so far, I can imagine so.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Beat me to it but I still want to point out the part that stood out to me:

“There is a moment in the finale that is extraordinarily shocking on a practical effects level, and is very, very, very violent — but also, as filmmakers, incredibly exciting,” Benson effused. “You’ll know what I’m talking about [when you see it], and I can’t wait for people to understand why there’s a gleam in my eye [right now].”​

​

Added Benson’s directing partner, Moorhead: “[The finale] is so brutally tragic…. A bonanza of bonkers visuals.”​

​

Yes, it will be violent but the showrunners strongly emphasize the practical effects of a visual component of that violence. I look forward to discovering what exactly has them so excited in that regards.

On a different note, io9's review provided me an answer that surprisingly Shazam could not. The closing music was "Storm Clouds Rising," performed by Florida Mass Choir:

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[eschaton]

I find it an interesting twist this season that...Fisk hasn't done much of anything that bad, by historic standards. Indeed, it seems like a major part of Matt's arc is realizing that as much as his personal dislike/distrust of Fisk motivates him, he needed to get over it in this case to see what was really going on.

 

[FPAlpha]

I find it an interesting twist this season that...Fisk hasn't done much of anything that bad, by historic standards. Indeed, it seems like a major part of Matt's arc is realizing that as much as his personal dislike/distrust of Fisk motivates him, he needed to get over it in this case to see what was really going on.

You missed the part where he imprisoned a former lover of Vanessa, tortured him and used him as a personal punching bag?

Or that he still dealt with the criminal underworld, tried to pay off a gangster to keep everyone in line and when that failed simply had him killed?

Or how he extorted the rich to finance his rebuild project?

Or that he's built a goon squad out of all the rotten NYPD apples and let them loose without oversight and basically told them to ignore the law when it's convenient?

Fisk has only changed offices, he himself has not changed at all and that's what drives Matt insane because he knows it ( without evidence at the moment) but nobody else does.

 

[Greg Cox]

Bingo. When your hand-picked (and publically lionized) police "task force" feels free to stick a journalist's hand in boiling grease because they know Fisk has their backs . . . the Kingpin is showing his true colors.

And Vanessa flat-out murdered Adam right in front of him . . . and Fisk is fully complicit in that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You missed the part where he imprisoned a former lover of Vanessa, tortured him and used him as a personal punching bag?

Or that he still dealt with the criminal underworld, tried to pay off a gangster to keep everyone in line and when that failed simply had him killed?

Or how he extorted the rich to finance his rebuild project?

Or that he's built a goon squad out of all the rotten NYPD apples and let them loose without oversight and basically told them to ignore the law when it's convenient?

Fisk has only changed offices, he himself has not changed at all and that's what drives Matt insane because he knows it ( without evidence at the moment) but nobody else does.

 

[Commander Troi]

Intense, extremely well put together, and with a shocking ending. Where the hell will this go in the finale?!?

 

[CaptainWacky]

Much better, much more cohesive, episode this week. The dancing scene was probably the strongest moment of the season.

I've got a bad feeling Jack isn't making it out of the finale. I think he'll step in as Swordsman to help Matt and end up as victim of Fisk's task force.

 

[Xerxes82]

I just watched an interview with the directors of the latest episode (also ep 1 and next week's finale) on Youtube and they brought up an interesting concept I hadn't considered. I'm going to spoiler code it just because it could come up directly in material next week and I don't want to ruin it for anybody if that's the case.

Spoiler

Matt gave up being DD after the events with Foggy/Bullseye in episode 1 because he felt he crossed a line and no longer had the right to put on the suit and play hero. That he'd fallen from grace with his sin.

Saving Fisk is his redemption. How he reclaims his grace and re-earns the right to be DD in his own mind. I'm curious if the show will explore that idea any more next week.

 

[FPAlpha]

I just watched an interview with the directors of the latest episode (also ep 1 and next week's finale) on Youtube and they brought up an interesting concept I hadn't considered. I'm going to spoiler code it just because it could come up directly in material next week and I don't want to ruin it for anybody if that's the case.

Spoiler

Matt gave up being DD after the events with Foggy/Bullseye in episode 1 because he felt he crossed a line and no longer had the right to put on the suit and play hero. That he'd fallen from grace with his sin.

Saving Fisk is his redemption. How he reclaims his grace and re-earns the right to be DD in his own mind. I'm curious if the show will explore that idea any more next week.

Interesting thought and perfectly valid in the context of the characters.

Really looking forward to the scene between him and Fisk after he realizes that his enemy saved his life. How will the Kingpin react to that?

 

[Booji]

How will the Kingpin react to that?

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[USS Firefly]

What a episode, so far I didn't like this season very much but, especially with killing Foggy who is my favorite Daredevil character. Now it is getting good, like my favorite season 3. I can't believe Matt saved Fisk, after everything he done, so much suffering and death.

 

[Reverend]

Intense, extremely well put together, and with a shocking ending. Where the hell will this go in the finale?!?

To the emergency room, I'd hope!

 

[eschaton]

You missed the part where he imprisoned a former lover of Vanessa, tortured him and used him as a personal punching bag?

Or that he still dealt with the criminal underworld, tried to pay off a gangster to keep everyone in line and when that failed simply had him killed?

Or how he extorted the rich to finance his rebuild project?

Or that he's built a goon squad out of all the rotten NYPD apples and let them loose without oversight and basically told them to ignore the law when it's convenient?

Fisk has only changed offices, he himself has not changed at all and that's what drives Matt insane because he knows it ( without evidence at the moment) but nobody else does.

I didn't say he was a good guy this time around. Though I believe Luca was killed on Vanessa's orders, not on Fisk's. He's being shady, but he is trying to be a better person, even if it's largely self-delusion.

We went into this season with the expectation that Fisk would be the villain, as was the case on the Netflix show. He's absolutely a foil/antagonist for Matt, but most of the bad stuff has been set into place by Vanessa, or else it's just independent bad shit, like Muse and the crooked cops at the start of the season.

Interestingly, we know everything related to Vanessa was added with the new showrunners, meaning this was all retconned. Presumably some of the core "Mayor Fisk" stuff was integral to the series, but originally the show may have either just been meant as a semi-episodic "monster of the week," or the Muse stuff was heavily cut down.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oh, something I forgot to mention in my review because of literally everything that happened after this moment:

Did anyone else think of Richard Fisk during that gorgeous opening shot of the blue roses?

To be clear, I'm not expecting him to appear for obvious reasons, but I was reminded of him nonetheless.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, something I forgot to mention in my review because of literally everything that happened after this moment:

Did anyone else think of Richard Fisk during that gorgeous opening shot of the blue roses?

To be clear, I'm not expecting him to appear for obvious reasons, but I was reminded of him nonetheless.

The Rose. Interesting observation.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Did Matt deliberately help Bullseye escape from prison?

No, Matt wouldn't do that, but I'm sure that's how Fisk will frame it for public consumption.

 

[JD]

Damn, this was fantastic episode.
I was pretty surprised to see Bullseye pop back up. As for whether or not wanted Matt wanted to escape, I had just thought him bashing Bullseye's head into the table was a way to get him out of gen pop before he was killed.
Heather's stance on vigilantes definitely adds a new wrinkle to her releationship with Matt. I'm very curious how she's going to react when she finds out Matt is Daredevil.
Vanessa killing Adam was a huge shock, but she really had no choice at that point. It's pretty messed up that the Fisks repaired their relationship by killing a guy.
It hadn't even occured to me that Vanessa sent Bullseye to kill Foggy, that was a big surprise for me.
The end was definitely a shock.

I've got a bad feeling Jack isn't making it out of the finale. I think he'll step in as Swordsman to help Matt and end up as victim of Fisk's task force.

Possibly, I could see them wanting to have a familiar face as a victim of the task force, and he's the only other vigilante we have left on the show now.