I think many would argue that it didn't especially work for "Where Nomad Has Gone Before", and at the time TVH came out I don't believe Trek had really done a full-on time travel comedy, much less one with a pro-environmental message.
Could Star Trek V been saved?
- Thread starter tim0122
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The trope is time travel to the current era. There are usually "hijinx" when that happens. Gags about little green men. Fainting at the sight of aliens. Getting the third degree by incredulous authority figures. We laugh at the fish out of water.
Saving the world from nuclear holocaust is pretty pro-environmental.
I think in general all of that is likely to be less prickly subject matter than delving into the question of whether there's a higher power, and if so, what the nature of it is, though.
God is an alien is a common trope. Pricking people via fiction is common too. Trek tries to have it's cake and eat it.
But Kirk didn't meet God. In fact, Kirk thought the whole concept of Sybok searching for God beyond the Great Barrier was "mad."
Why not?
Because they don't have a great track record with it, and they didn't do it well here either. DS9 I'd say ultimately did it the best, but even their track record wasn't universally great.
IMHO, nothing in TFF was as hokey as the final fire cave confrontation between Sisko and Dukat. YMMV. I adore DS9, but I cannot stand how they chose to wrap up Sisko's arc, Dukat's arc, or the overall Bajoran/Prophets arc.
In TNG season 7 we had:
Word’s adoptive brother.
Geordi’s mom.
Data’s “mom”/Dr. Soong’s wife android.
Troi’s dead older sister (Kirsten Dundst).
The not son of Picard, Daimon Bok used for revenge.
Beverly’s sex candle from her grandmother.
Future Alexander traveling back to kill himself.
If O’Brien and Keiko were still on the ENT-D at the time, I imagine they would have visitors as well. Haha
Hard agree.
Nothing like having your main character leaving the party that wrapped up the main storyline so that he could go push a hammy, monologuing villain off a cliff.
I like aspects of the movie but the entire package is sorely lacking. They could have maybe kept elements, but it badly needed fresh minds and fresh ideas to make it a genuinely worthwhile movie. They messed up with The Final Frontier but made up for it two years later.
I think it's really not bad though I admit I'm pretty unusual in liking most of the kind of comedy it had. But while a lot of people really dislike that kind of comedy if it didn't have it I don't think they would like the film much more, if it didn't have it it would instead just feel pretty basic, still otherwise undeveloped.
Re: with the religious subject matter, the Indiana Jones movies were able to involve religious artifacts having magical powers without being particularly controversial, though they of course only focused on the artifacts' power and implicitly nature in the endings, the rest of the movies just focusing on the character interactions and actions (and some humor). And in TFF Sybok's motivation is also pretty not focused on and/or not stated until the end. Maybe it could have been better if he had openly early stated he was trying to find, go to Paradise but still not focusing on it, what that meant, what it related to until near the end.
Re: with the religious subject matter, the Indiana Jones movies were able to involve religious artifacts having magical powers without being particularly controversial, though they of course only focused on the artifacts' power and implicitly nature in the endings, the rest of the movies just focusing on the character interactions and actions (and some humor). And in TFF Sybok's motivation is also pretty not focused on and/or not stated until the end. Maybe it could have been better if he had openly early stated he was trying to find, go to Paradise but still not focusing on it, what that meant, what it related to until near the end.
The Voyage Home was much better in comedy.
Yeah, that what "common trope" means
I like the TOS movie series because it actually dared to try different things. Three of the six movies have no traditional villain per se. TMP tried to do "hard sci-fi," TVH tried to do a straight-up comedy, TFF wanted to explore philosophical ideas about God, religion, and man's search for answers. Not everything was about action/adventure space opera. We certainly got more attempts at variety out of the classic six movies than out of what came later.
1) Ditch the glitchy ship comedy angle. A more serious shakedown with some more subtle humor could work
2) Ditch the center of the galaxy thing but have it be contained to a relatively nearby world.
3) I like Sybok and Luckinbill played it well. Play up more of the Hall of Ancient Thought angle from the novelizations of IV and V
4) Better SFX (probably hard with ILM apparently committed elsewhere). I still enjoy TFF more overall than TVH (on the back in time stuff anyway which hasn't dated well)
2) Ditch the center of the galaxy thing but have it be contained to a relatively nearby world.
3) I like Sybok and Luckinbill played it well. Play up more of the Hall of Ancient Thought angle from the novelizations of IV and V
4) Better SFX (probably hard with ILM apparently committed elsewhere). I still enjoy TFF more overall than TVH (on the back in time stuff anyway which hasn't dated well)
Nah Sybok and Scotty never seemed to meet face to face. Scotty escaped the hanger bay when he saw Uhura and Sulu getting melded and stayed in the shadows until he could break out the Big 3. Then he knocked himself out. Sulu found him and had him taken to Sick Bay. After his recovery, he went right to the transporter (why he was still trying to fix it at this point works for the story but makes no sense). Sybok was busy elsewhere by this time trying to convert the Big 3.
There was really no indication or even a slight hint that Sybok met Scotty and failed to convert him. That wasn't part of Shatner's story. Even McCoy was turning, so Scotty wouldn't be the other holdout, of all people.
I don't mind TFF. Do I think it's a masterpiece? Nope.
It has some nice moments between Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
Maybe too many gags in this one, but I think that may of been the studio mandate to keep it as light as possible, as the TVH was light and a great money maker.
It's a shame that ILM didn't do the effects. The effects are not great but passable.
Sybok was an interesting addition.
But my view is not all TOS episodes are brilliant. One below average film out of six ain't that bad
It has some nice moments between Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
Maybe too many gags in this one, but I think that may of been the studio mandate to keep it as light as possible, as the TVH was light and a great money maker.
It's a shame that ILM didn't do the effects. The effects are not great but passable.
Sybok was an interesting addition.
But my view is not all TOS episodes are brilliant. One below average film out of six ain't that bad
...although I kind of like the idea that Scotty meeting Sybok is kind of like how the Dwarves reacted to the Rings of Power in LotR. "That's nice, but work calls!"
