...but we didn't see a movie about Romulans.
Tell that to Rick.
Could Star Trek V been saved?
- Thread starter tim0122
- Start date
Tell that to Rick.
I don't know the last time Berman made that excuse, but hopefully, he stopped after ST 09 was a hit.
Worf has a kid who infrequently shows up.
Nobody knows Spock's parents until they land.
Decker's son is on the Enterprise.
It's a simple dramatic trope.
What I love most about TFF is also what frustrates me most about it, and that is that it had potential to be a fantastic Star Trek adventure. But, it was just underbaked in so many areas....and the reality of what ended up on the screen doesn't measure up.
Given that, I do absolutely believe it could have been saved.
1. Obviously improved visual effects would have helped. Everyone knows this. But, I'm still throwing it out there.
2. Better development of Sybok's background. This may have only taken a little bit of extra dialogue, or perhaps a flashback scene. But, knowing more about what motivated Sybok to seek out a divine force and how he developed his powers would have helped tremendously. More tension and interaction between him and Spock.
3. More information around the lore of Sha Ka Ree. What was this planet supposed to be, and why is it behind the Great Barrier? I've always kind of had in my "headcanon" that Sybok doesn't actually believe that "God" physically lives in the center of the Milky Way, but more that this is a "shrine" or "access point" where if you can reach it (the central location and trial of successfully crossing the Great Barrier represents this technological / spiritual / cultural achievement), he believes you will be granted an audience with the divine source / God / whatever. This was touched upon a little in the current film (Sybok's speech about universal fear, saying "The danger is an illusion," etc) but never fleshed out.
4. A little more dialogue or a brief scene, taken directly from the novelization, that explains that one of the things Sybok has been working his whole life on is creating a deflector shield design that would specifically protect them from the radiation and forces of the Barrier. This would make sense given that Spock claims he was intellectually brilliant.
5. Dial back some of the silly humor. There's stuff that works really well ("Actually it's my first attempt," "I liked him better before he died," "He DID have pointed ears") but some of the more slap-sticky stuff can be discarded (Scotty knocking himself out, Chekov and Sulu getting lost, Uhura fan dance, etc). That is time that could have been used to better flesh-out some of the items above.
6. Kind of related to #5 above...smooth the tone out a bit. I think TFF suffers from being all over the place tonally. It goes from slapstick humor, to charming friendship scenes, to action/adventure, to heavy spiritual drama, etc. It needs to smooth that out a bit.
7. More time spent on the entity that was discovered. Build the tension and the "evil" of this creature. What was it? Why was it there? Could it have created more of a challenge for ship and crew? I think this was one of the biggest missed opportunities. What are the goals of the creature and what are the consequences of the crew failing to defeat it? Creating some lore and background with this thing would have really added to the menace and seriousness of the situation.
Honestly, the sad thing about this is that about 10 minutes of more dialoge and/or scenes, combined with the deletion of some other elements, would have easily raised the bar for this film. Combine that with some improved visual effects, and you likely have a great Star Trek movie.
Given that, I do absolutely believe it could have been saved.
1. Obviously improved visual effects would have helped. Everyone knows this. But, I'm still throwing it out there.
2. Better development of Sybok's background. This may have only taken a little bit of extra dialogue, or perhaps a flashback scene. But, knowing more about what motivated Sybok to seek out a divine force and how he developed his powers would have helped tremendously. More tension and interaction between him and Spock.
3. More information around the lore of Sha Ka Ree. What was this planet supposed to be, and why is it behind the Great Barrier? I've always kind of had in my "headcanon" that Sybok doesn't actually believe that "God" physically lives in the center of the Milky Way, but more that this is a "shrine" or "access point" where if you can reach it (the central location and trial of successfully crossing the Great Barrier represents this technological / spiritual / cultural achievement), he believes you will be granted an audience with the divine source / God / whatever. This was touched upon a little in the current film (Sybok's speech about universal fear, saying "The danger is an illusion," etc) but never fleshed out.
4. A little more dialogue or a brief scene, taken directly from the novelization, that explains that one of the things Sybok has been working his whole life on is creating a deflector shield design that would specifically protect them from the radiation and forces of the Barrier. This would make sense given that Spock claims he was intellectually brilliant.
5. Dial back some of the silly humor. There's stuff that works really well ("Actually it's my first attempt," "I liked him better before he died," "He DID have pointed ears") but some of the more slap-sticky stuff can be discarded (Scotty knocking himself out, Chekov and Sulu getting lost, Uhura fan dance, etc). That is time that could have been used to better flesh-out some of the items above.
6. Kind of related to #5 above...smooth the tone out a bit. I think TFF suffers from being all over the place tonally. It goes from slapstick humor, to charming friendship scenes, to action/adventure, to heavy spiritual drama, etc. It needs to smooth that out a bit.
7. More time spent on the entity that was discovered. Build the tension and the "evil" of this creature. What was it? Why was it there? Could it have created more of a challenge for ship and crew? I think this was one of the biggest missed opportunities. What are the goals of the creature and what are the consequences of the crew failing to defeat it? Creating some lore and background with this thing would have really added to the menace and seriousness of the situation.
Honestly, the sad thing about this is that about 10 minutes of more dialoge and/or scenes, combined with the deletion of some other elements, would have easily raised the bar for this film. Combine that with some improved visual effects, and you likely have a great Star Trek movie.
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I agree with a lot of this. One place we differ is explaining the entity at the end. I'm with them better explaining them. TOS did that all the time with its godlike aliens. But I also loved the unexplained when done right. It wasn't in TFF, but I love the idea of a powerful being whose past is unknown to us.
Because of my reservations about the underlying "Kirk meets God" storyline, I don't personally see how it could have been a classic without substantially more than a few tweaks.
Agreed. The only way the storyline could have been salvaged was if Shatner had presented Sybok as more of a 'false prophet' (i.e. television evangelist) who was trying to forcibly persuade others to his cause for his own personal gain, and 'God' had nothing to do with it.
TV evangelist was the inspiration for Sybok.
Honestly the whole 'evangelist' idea puts me on edge, whether or not 'God' appears and whether or not 'God' is implied or stated to be the genuine article.
While Trek has, on occasion, presented religion in a manner I thought was fairly even-handed, it's been less than consistent, and I'm not sure a single film would be able to do the subject matter justice.
While Trek has, on occasion, presented religion in a manner I thought was fairly even-handed, it's been less than consistent, and I'm not sure a single film would be able to do the subject matter justice.
Trek likes to expose false gods. Be they Landru, Vaal or Ardra. Even the Prophets are Wormhole Aliens. (Just don't tell the Bajorans)
It was the inspiration, but it wasn’t the outcome.
The very fact that it's practically a Trek trope is arguably a compelling reason for a feature film not to go that route.
You think they could have done better with actually meeting God for real?
Worked for TMP and TVH.
I don't think they should have done a plotline involving or alluding to God at all.
