• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

COp out just like BSG.

David Fury is on record as saying the writers made a bunch of it up without planning it. So whos telling the truth??

David Fury was also only on staff for the first season. Damon and Carlton have said repeatedly that they cracked a lot of the mythology between seasons 1 and 2. So yeah, if you're Fury it probably looks like they were making things up. Because they were.
 
Well, by the end of BSG everybody was dead. Just like on Lost

Yes, but my point was, they should not have reached Earth. The Cylons should have destroyed the fleet. Landing on Earth gave the show a happy ending, which was a cop-out to the relentlessly downbeat theme of the show.

If they'd ended the show like that, it would all have been pointless. Those people went through hell and back. You'd begrudge them their final moments in peace. That's messed up. ;)
 
Happy endings are only in Disney movies.

And apparently in "Aliens" if you ask that one deluded guy in the "Aliens" thread in SF/F.

Yeah because when I think of the carnage, bloodshed and horror of "Aliens" I know MY mind immediately screams "DISNEY!!!!"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
That one threw me too. Both the commenter and the commenting on it here.

Anyhow, it was a "we're going to do an ambiguous ending because it's so deep" copout. I don't mean they should spell out the ending, the meaning of the series, but they left it too vague to actually give a proper closure to the series. I liked it but it doesn't mean I'm not disappointed with how weakly it was done.
 
I see. Regardless of whatever was actually said and confirmed by those that actually work on the show, you're going to say just the opposite just to suit you whether it really holds water or not. Got it. ;)


They had a very basic outline form season to season but recent interviews suggest much of it was written season to season, episode by episode.(Example:They had no Idea John Locke would be dead by season 5 or that the MIB was smokie and took lokces form etc.)These guys have been very contradicting in interviews over the years.:lol:
 
I see. Regardless of whatever was actually said and confirmed by those that actually work on the show, you're going to say just the opposite just to suit you whether it really holds water or not. Got it. ;)


They had a very basic outline form season to season but recent interviews suggest much of it was written season to season, episode by episode.(Example:They had no Idea John Locke would be dead by season 5 or that the MIB was smokie and took lokces form etc.)These guys have been very contradicting in interviews over the years.:lol:
Bottom line: I don't care if it is meticulously mapped out or done on the fly just so long as in the end everything holds together and makes sense. And for S3-5 it did. My beef is that it seemed the writers completely forgot what made the show compelling for the last 3 seasons and went back to the malaise that characterized portions of seasons 2 and 3. Back then they stalled, they dragged things out, they said no one cares about the questions or the characters asking questions--back then they said everyone was more interested in Jack/Kate/Sawyer's love triangle. Only when people were getting exceedingly frustrated and praising to the rafters Heroes' season one of answering question and having a fast clip did they start to "get it".

And for whatever reason this season it sounds from the interviews and the episodes themselves that it was Darlton of S2/3 writing the show and not from mid S3-5 Darlton.
 
That one threw me too. Both the commenter and the commenting on it here.

Sorry for confusing everybody - I was just taking out my frustration over somebody who keeps claiming "Aliens" ended like a Disney movie.

I thought my comment was pretty self-explanatory.
 
I see. Regardless of whatever was actually said and confirmed by those that actually work on the show, you're going to say just the opposite just to suit you whether it really holds water or not. Got it. ;)


They had a very basic outline form season to season but recent interviews suggest much of it was written season to season, episode by episode.(Example:They had no Idea John Locke would be dead by season 5 or that the MIB was smokie and took lokces form etc.)These guys have been very contradicting in interviews over the years.:lol:

You got a link to where they say they had no idea about Locke being dead, and so on?

As far as I've seen, they've stayed consistent on a few things:

Season one they made up until Sayid's episode. When the back half of the season was picked up, they figured out the rest of the year, which is when you see elements like the Hatch and the Others being introduced.

Between seasons one and two they figured out somewhat what the Smoke Monster was, evidenced by them hinting throughout the show that we saw the Smoke Monster in non-Smoke show at different points. I don't think they figured out that he was Jacob's brother until Jacob came into the picture, though. Clearly by season three they knew it was an entity that could take the form of dead people (Yemi). Here they also figured out the basic idea of the Dharma Initiaitve, Jacob, the way the Others operated (looking like hillbillies using disguises), that they may start playing with time travel, who the real Sawyer was, what Kate did, how Locke got in his wheel chair, all of that.

During season three they negotiated an end date for the show. At this point they outlined seasons four, five and six. They knew how many episodes they had left to the exact number, so I fully believe that they figured out Jacob, MIB, the candidates, the Oceanic Six, the time traveling, all of that at this point. That's why we started seeing these elements being setup, with a physicist character being introduced to eventually explain the rules of time travel, a call back to the Island for Jack and the others, Locke being the one in the coffin, and so on.

They also made some stuff up as they went along. Nikki and Paulo were supposed to play a bigger role, as were Eko and Libby. Henry Gale was supposed to die after three episodes, with Ben being introduced at the end of season two, probably. Juliet and Sawyer weren't originally going to get together. I doubt all of the deaths were figured out until they outlined the individual seasons. Some mysteries were introduced, like the outrigger shoot-out in season 5, that were supposed to be closed but never were. This resulted in inconsistencies, of course.

As for why season six was weaker than three to five--and I do think the Island story especially was weaker this last season--I think it's just a case of last-act-itis. It's the same in movies, especially a lot of action movies, that are innovative, new and exciting all the way through until the end, where we get a same old, same old bad guy kidnaps the girl and the hero has to do some heroics to free her final act. See Collateral, Iron Man and Minority Report for some examples. Movies aren't made up on the fly, of course, but they often suffer from the same problem Lost did: good first act, awesome second act, let-down of a third act.

That's why I don't think they completely made it up as they went, and that's why people are disappointed.

I should probably add that I did like this last season fine, and I enjoyed the finale. It just didn't quite reach the heights previous years did for me.

And just cause I asked for a link above...

Interviewer: Tonight's episode, "Across the Sea," focuses on Jacob and the Man In Black. When were these guys first conceived?
Lindelof: We had to start talking about the overall mythology of the island in greater detail in the cracks between the first and second seasons, before our characters went down into the hatch. That conversation basically kicked out into the other major arc of the second season. Which was: Who are the Others? Who are these other people on the island, and who was their leader? And who was he receiving his instructions from? By the time the show got into its third season, we started to hear references to this character, Jacob. And I think it's safe to say that those conversations started then.
Here
 
That's pretty consistent with what they've said all along. They figured out the big, mythic stuff early on. They figured out a few overall details after season one was a big hit. They figured out the outline of the rest of the show, act by act, when they got an end date.

That's why season two seemed like it was spinning its wheels so much of the time. They had a story to tell, but no idea if they had four years or ten years to tell it. It's really hard to figure out pacing when you have a set story and no idea how many pages you have to tell that story in. So the pacing was glacially slow for a while.

Like I said above, it seems like they figured out an overall structure when they knew how many seasons they had left, then figured out what each of those seasons would specifically look like before it started. Pretty standard for a show like this, actually. Only, they got an end date and three years to setup the ending.

I also didn't see anywhere in that article where they said they didn't know Locke would die in season five. I mean, I'm sure they didn't write the first episode with that in mind, but I do think it's one of the things they figured out after the six season deal.
 
^^^Well I used the Locke thing as an example. They had a basic outline but the details pretty much were from season to season episode to episode. I have read so many different things over the years from these guys I cant possibly quote them word for word. I do remember them saying at one poiint the island wasnt purgatory. Which it wasnt but the chracters do end up in a purgatory (heavens waiting room) at the end. I have a feeling that the island may have been purgatory at the beginning but the creators changed their minds because fans had figured it out. That is just my personal musing of course.:lol:
 
A lot of people are saying we shouldn't worry about every last tiny detail or unresolved mystery. But to me, it was the big plot points that they ignored. What was the island? etc.
The island's true identity.

Seriously, there's no point in worrying about it. The writers didn't even know. Their modus operandi for years was to answer each mystery with two even more absurd mysteries. It really is impressive that they managed to answer so many questions even if most of them were of the tilt-your-head-and-squint-and-you-can-kinda-see-it variety.
 
Just watched this last night. Meh -- unimpressed, and this is coming from someone who has been seriously hooked on the show since the premiere.
 
That seems to be the consensus. Go to one of the three(or is it four?)discussions at AICN. They are calling for the heads of the two moron showrunners.
 
That seems to be the consensus.

Really

Not going on just the poll here but I've read plenty of good reviews...

The End" received "generally favorable reviews" with a Metascore – 74 out of 100

I've seen plenty of good reviews from other internet sources and newspapers with comments from critics and fans. Even when its not been Excellent reviews Mixed far out weighs negative so there is no consensus for a lot of hate just the minorty are shouting louder at times.

Aslo here UK data for ratings on the cable chanel Sky 1

In the UK, 584,000 viewers tuned in to see the episode on Sky One during 5am broadcast. A later broadcast the following night was viewed by approximately 2.5 million

Also it looks like LOST is the most TIVO show of 2010 and The End may of been seen by other sources in record numbers.
 
That seems to be the consensus. Go to one of the three(or is it four?)discussions at AICN. They are calling for the heads of the two moron showrunners.

AICN? That's nothing. I hear the commenters on YouTube are positively frothing at the mouth!
 
Just watched this last night. Meh -- unimpressed, and this is coming from someone who has been seriously hooked on the show since the premiere.
Yeah I love Lost and always used it as my highwater mark for other shows and S3-5 are some of the most thrilling, most exciting, most unpredictable, most satisfying and most consistent episodes in tv history but season six just came off the track-it wasn't awful just very middle of the road with stalling, focusing on boring things rather than interesting mysteries, the season feel like it wasted a lot of time and a lot of episodes stuffing them with material I don't think a lot of people were that interested in.

This was the first season since season two where I didn't rewatch an episode or cared to think about it for days afterwards. It is baffling that such brilliant writers could go from the heights of S4/5 to the malaise that was S6. I guess it does happen--I mean look at the brilliance of Heroes season one then look at seasons 3/4-Kring just lost it or look at the excellence of BSG in season 1 and the first half of season 2 then look at seasons 3/4--Moore had the same issue.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top