COp out just like BSG.

[Dar70]

How exactly would you end a show of this scale that would please everybody anyway? Even if they had given us everything everybody wanted, there would still be those that would complain it was too predicable.

Since they had no real plan for the series at the beginning there probably was no way.(though Damn Lindelof who just posted at IMDB is acting as though thats not the case now.) Im sure they could have ended the show on a happier note. I would have like a pseudoscience explanation than the crappy religious stuff they shoved down are throats. Also almost every frickin main character died within just over 3 years of the crash. All those struggles for survival and they still die.

They always had the ending planned out, they said that as early as s2. It just sounds like you're upset because it didn't end the way you yourself wanted it to. Faith has been a major back drop to the show from the start. EVERYTHING Locke did was in the search for it, even going as far as stating: "I'm a man of faith." As the show continued to play out, faith becomes a major part of all the characters lives. Most times on the show when they used pseudoscience it caused something to backfire. Even Jacob's whole explaination on why he was bringing folks too the island was one of faith.

We all struggle with survival in many ways everyday, yet we all still die eventually. Yet most of what we do in life is a learning lesson or at least it's supposed to be. LOST gave us a tale of what we all should know, That life holds no reward with or without struggle and sacrifice nor should we take what we have in life for granted. Happy endings are only in Disney movies.

The second season isnt the beginning. If they did say the second season after the fact they lied. They have gone back on many things they said. I do remember ABC telling them to come up with an ending and timeframe to end the show. I thought that was just after the 2nd season or third.

 

[RandyS]

Yup. The writers threw themselves into all kinds of corners and had to end it with everyone eventually dying. But unlike BSG they actually showed a waiting staion for heaven. Sorry it just sucked.

Well, I can't speak for LOST, but GALACTICA should have ended with everybody dying. It was indeed a huge cop-out.

 

[AlanC9]

Well, by the end of BSG everybody was dead. Just like on Lost

 

[exodus]

Since they had no real plan for the series at the beginning there probably was no way.(though Damn Lindelof who just posted at IMDB is acting as though thats not the case now.) Im sure they could have ended the show on a happier note. I would have like a pseudoscience explanation than the crappy religious stuff they shoved down are throats. Also almost every frickin main character died within just over 3 years of the crash. All those struggles for survival and they still die.

They always had the ending planned out, they said that as early as s2. It just sounds like you're upset because it didn't end the way you yourself wanted it to. Faith has been a major back drop to the show from the start. EVERYTHING Locke did was in the search for it, even going as far as stating: "I'm a man of faith." As the show continued to play out, faith becomes a major part of all the characters lives. Most times on the show when they used pseudoscience it caused something to backfire. Even Jacob's whole explaination on why he was bringing folks too the island was one of faith.

We all struggle with survival in many ways everyday, yet we all still die eventually. Yet most of what we do in life is a learning lesson or at least it's supposed to be. LOST gave us a tale of what we all should know, That life holds no reward with or without struggle and sacrifice nor should we take what we have in life for granted. Happy endings are only in Disney movies.

The second season isnt the beginning. If they did say the second season after the fact they lied. They have gone back on many things they said. I do remember ABC telling them to come up with an ending and timeframe to end the show. I thought that was just after the 2nd season or third.

Ummm, what!?!

They said to the public during s2 they had an ending set up. That doesn't mean they didn't have a conclusion in mind from the very start or does it imply it. ABC didn't tell them to come up with anything. The writers did say that once ABC gave them a time frame of when the show was ending, they knew how much time they had left to put things in order to conclude the story and they were very happy about that. They said this in every major entertainment mag. publication two years ago. All of this was discussed in this forum when they made that announcement. They also told us well in advance that the ending would be up to interpretation, the bulk of the story is about the characters & not all of the mystery would be answered flat out. Once again, they told us all of this over two years ago. So it doesn't sound like they lied or went back on anything because all they said came to fruition.

 

[Aeon]

Looks like people want more midi-chlorians.

 

[Dar70]

They always had the ending planned out, they said that as early as s2. It just sounds like you're upset because it didn't end the way you yourself wanted it to. Faith has been a major back drop to the show from the start. EVERYTHING Locke did was in the search for it, even going as far as stating: "I'm a man of faith." As the show continued to play out, faith becomes a major part of all the characters lives. Most times on the show when they used pseudoscience it caused something to backfire. Even Jacob's whole explaination on why he was bringing folks too the island was one of faith.

We all struggle with survival in many ways everyday, yet we all still die eventually. Yet most of what we do in life is a learning lesson or at least it's supposed to be. LOST gave us a tale of what we all should know, That life holds no reward with or without struggle and sacrifice nor should we take what we have in life for granted. Happy endings are only in Disney movies.

The second season isnt the beginning. If they did say the second season after the fact they lied. They have gone back on many things they said. I do remember ABC telling them to come up with an ending and timeframe to end the show. I thought that was just after the 2nd season or third.

Ummm, what!?!

They said to the public during s2 they had an ending set up. That doesn't mean they didn't have a conclusion in mind from the very start or does it imply it. ABC didn't tell them to come up with anything. The writers did say that once ABC gave them a time frame of when the show was ending, they knew how much time they had left to put things in order to conclude the story and they were very happy about that. They said this in every major entertainment mag. publication two years ago. All of this was discussed in this forum when they made that announcement. They also told us well in advance that the ending would be up to interpretation, the bulk of the story is about the characters & not all of the mystery would be answered flat out. Once again, they told us all of this over two years ago. So it doesn't sound like they lied or went back on anything because all they said came to fruition.

Regardless it wasnt planned out until sometime during the second season. ABC may not have said explicitly to come up with an ending but wanted a timeframe to end it. Same thing if you ask me. I did say I remember that also, just wasnt sure exactly which season since I didnt start watching until the second season.(I watched the first season in a week on dvd) I swear though its no earlier than late second season. Which is late in the context of the show since Lost stopped having full seasons from that point on.


David Fury is on record as saying the writers made a bunch of it up without planning it. So whos telling the truth??

 

[Dar70]

Looks like people want more midi-chlorians.

Thats the excuse Damon Lindleof gave fans at IMDB about the numbers. They wanted to keep the mysterious of the numbers like the force used to be. I dont remember when, but I do remember them saying something ot the effect that they had no idea how to resolve the numbers being so prevalent in the losties life. That was way back in 3rd season I think. Now they are saying they didnt want to give a reason.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Looks like people want more midi-chlorians.

Looks like people want more pretty pictures and cliches with no logical ties between them.

 

[Delta1]

Looks like people want more midi-chlorians.

Do you mean some kind of nonsense explanation that complicates what was already a fairly elegant fantasy universe? Like a cave of magic universal soul light with a cork in a geothermal vent that can end the world? Yeah, people wanted that.

 

[Aeon]

Looks like people want more midi-chlorians.

Do you mean some kind of nonsense explanation that complicates what was already a fairly elegant fantasy universe? Like a cave of magic universal soul light with a cork in a geothermal vent that can end the world? Yeah, people wanted that.

I'm not saying Across The Sea was necessarily a bad episode, but yeah. Exactly my point.

 

[John Picard]

I will not say "I told you so" but, let's just say "Lost" is for this generation(what a friend of mine calls "Generation Stupid")what Twin Peaks was twenty years ago.

It's just today's kids weren't around to experience the incredible demise of such an interesting show, so today they have "Lost".


I KNEW the ending would suck - there was NO WAY they could get themselves out of it without pissing millions of people off. The producers' "Remember, not all your questions will be answered and this was ALWAYS a show about the characters!!!" was a lame attempt at bait and switch before they basically took the money and ran.


INCREDIBLE EPIC FAIL.

I have not watched the finale yet but am cognizant of some of it. A co-worker, who keeps babbling about it in bits and pieces keeps defending the producers/writers, claiming they always had a plan while I keep calling it a hack. I keep reminding him of Season 2, and how it took forever for them to open the damned hatch


IT...WAS...A...HACK!!!!

 

[RandyS]

Well, by the end of BSG everybody was dead. Just like on Lost

Yes, but my point was, they should not have reached Earth. The Cylons should have destroyed the fleet. Landing on Earth gave the show a happy ending, which was a cop-out to the relentlessly downbeat theme of the show.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Well, by the end of BSG everybody was dead. Just like on Lost

Yes, but my point was, they should not have reached Earth. The Cylons should have destroyed the fleet. Landing on Earth gave the show a happy ending, which was a cop-out to the relentlessly downbeat theme of the show.

But that's what the story was building up to. The whole series itself was pretty much a setup for what we saw in "Daybreak".

 

[Hunter X]

Well, by the end of BSG everybody was dead. Just like on Lost

Yes, but my point was, they should not have reached Earth. The Cylons should have destroyed the fleet. Landing on Earth gave the show a happy ending, which was a cop-out to the relentlessly downbeat theme of the show.

I don't think so, though YMMV. The pattern in Battlestar Galactica tended to be "characters make bad choices, fleet is split apart, everyone is angry for a while, someone decides that it's better to forgive than live apart, fleet is reunited, something fantastically hopeful happens, everyone is happy again, except for Starbuck and Tigh, they're already planning the next bad choice they'll make." It followed this pattern moreso back in season one and two, but Galactica's story arcs usually ended with someone making the right choice to forgive, to do the right thing, which would sometimes lead them to a clue to Earth.

Anyways, that's a different forum.

As for Lost and the whole "when did they have things figured out debate"...these kind of debates usually show how little people understand what writing a TV show would be like. You can figure out as much story as you possibly can, but if you aren't flexible, willing to change as the story develops, you end up with a very robotic, bland, "marching forward" sort of plot.

Is Lost plot-hole free? Absolutely not. I don't know that any show is, especially one that's been on for six years. Your appreciation of this show, any show really, depends on why you watch. If there's anything this message board has shown me, it's that people watch and read stories for every reason imaginable.

 

[exodus]

The second season isnt the beginning. If they did say the second season after the fact they lied. They have gone back on many things they said. I do remember ABC telling them to come up with an ending and timeframe to end the show. I thought that was just after the 2nd season or third.

Ummm, what!?!

They said to the public during s2 they had an ending set up. That doesn't mean they didn't have a conclusion in mind from the very start or does it imply it. ABC didn't tell them to come up with anything. The writers did say that once ABC gave them a time frame of when the show was ending, they knew how much time they had left to put things in order to conclude the story and they were very happy about that. They said this in every major entertainment mag. publication two years ago. All of this was discussed in this forum when they made that announcement. They also told us well in advance that the ending would be up to interpretation, the bulk of the story is about the characters & not all of the mystery would be answered flat out. Once again, they told us all of this over two years ago. So it doesn't sound like they lied or went back on anything because all they said came to fruition.

Regardless it wasnt planned out until sometime during the second season. ABC may not have said explicitly to come up with an ending but wanted a timeframe to end it. Same thing if you ask me. I did say I remember that also, just wasnt sure exactly which season since I didnt start watching until the second season.(I watched the first season in a week on dvd) I swear though its no earlier than late second season. Which is late in the context of the show since Lost stopped having full seasons from that point on.


David Fury is on record as saying the writers made a bunch of it up without planning it. So whos telling the truth??

I see. Regardless of whatever was actually said and confirmed by those that actually work on the show, you're going to say just the opposite just to suit you whether it really holds water or not. Got it.




Yes, that would called filler which many dramas do to stretch out the story, that still has nothing to do with what this conversation started out as. Which was that they alreay had the main plot and ending of the series planned out since day one.

 

[Delta1]

I'm not saying Across The Sea was necessarily a bad episode, but yeah. Exactly my point.

I couldn't tell what the midiclorians were in your metaphor

I liked Across the Sea as myth, and I liked it as island history. This is how the pre-scientific mind interpreted what was happening on the island, and why Jacob devoted millennia to protecting it. But when you take the Luminous Birth Metaphor Cave out of the mythical/historical mode and transplant it into the realtime plot, it looks much worse. And the characters look worse for buying into it.

Jack's a man of faith now, I get it, but he's also a man of science, and a product of the modern age. Modern men of faith have technical jargon, they have systematic theologies and metaphysics, they test their faith against the observable universe and try to reconcile the two. Jack & Co. didn't do any of that--even though their long association with the Dharma Initiative gave them observations, a systematic theory of the island, and the language to discuss it. The faith/science dichotomy could have been solved by a synthesis of the two paradigms, but they utterly rejected science, writing out all the scientific characters and converting the former spokesman of science to a pre-modern form of faith. (Not that he was ever a very good spokesman for science, or that anyone on Lost was ever a very good spokesman for faith.) Even Desmond's attempt to combine the scientific understanding of the island with his faith in a better world was ultimately deluded, and his attempt to advance the two paradigms together was punished.

Imagine a final debate between the man of science and the man of faith, pulling together everything we explored on the show and deciding the fate of the world. We didn't need any more midiclorians, we just needed conflict, based on personalities, over what was seen in the first five seasons and what Jacob believed. Wouldn't that have been better than a fistfight and a magic cork?

Maybe I'm just asking for midiclorians of a different color. But I think my midiclorians would have followed from the characters and the plot.

 

[Ryan]

That being said, the purgatory bit was a huge misstep.......


Plus it makes some of the characters look dumb as hell. Jin and Sun really thought dying together on the sub and having their child raised by the mafioso grandparents was a good idea?

Huh? Jin and Sun's death had nothing to do with the purgatory world. That part was real.

The show had hinted with Juliet and Desmond that the characters could sometimes see the other reality. Now we know Sun and Jin didn't. They just decided to die and orphan their child.

 

[RoJoHen]

That being said, the purgatory bit was a huge misstep.......


Plus it makes some of the characters look dumb as hell. Jin and Sun really thought dying together on the sub and having their child raised by the mafioso grandparents was a good idea?

Huh? Jin and Sun's death had nothing to do with the purgatory world. That part was real.

The show had hinted with Juliet and Desmond that the characters could sometimes see the other reality. Now we know Sun and Jin didn't. They just decided to die and orphan their child.

How are the two even related? Whether they saw the other reality or not, Sun was still trapped in a sinking submarine. She didn't decide anything. Yes, Jin, decided to stay and die with Sun, but to be fair (and this might sound cold of me), he went 3 years without ever meeting his daughter. After that much time, Ji Yeon probably wasn't much on his mind.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

TV shows should be about the characters first and foremost.

Perhaps, but not to the exclusion of plot, or just brushing it aside with the wave of a fancy wand.

The show took place on a magical island. Anyone who was expecting answers to all of the silly little mysteries and riddles that have popped up over the years were fooling themselves.

You are, as is almost inevitable, right about this and about BSG as well.

 

[Dar70]

Ummm, what!?!

They said to the public during s2 they had an ending set up. That doesn't mean they didn't have a conclusion in mind from the very start or does it imply it. ABC didn't tell them to come up with anything. The writers did say that once ABC gave them a time frame of when the show was ending, they knew how much time they had left to put things in order to conclude the story and they were very happy about that. They said this in every major entertainment mag. publication two years ago. All of this was discussed in this forum when they made that announcement. They also told us well in advance that the ending would be up to interpretation, the bulk of the story is about the characters & not all of the mystery would be answered flat out. Once again, they told us all of this over two years ago. So it doesn't sound like they lied or went back on anything because all they said came to fruition.

Regardless it wasnt planned out until sometime during the second season. ABC may not have said explicitly to come up with an ending but wanted a timeframe to end it. Same thing if you ask me. I did say I remember that also, just wasnt sure exactly which season since I didnt start watching until the second season.(I watched the first season in a week on dvd) I swear though its no earlier than late second season. Which is late in the context of the show since Lost stopped having full seasons from that point on.


David Fury is on record as saying the writers made a bunch of it up without planning it. So whos telling the truth??

I see. Regardless of whatever was actually said and confirmed by those that actually work on the show, you're going to say just the opposite just to suit you whether it really holds water or not. Got it.




Yes, that would called filler which many dramas do to stretch out the story, that still has nothing to do with what this conversation started out as. Which was that they alreay had the main plot and ending of the series planned out since day one.

Well it was a lousy ending anyways. Wish I would have known ahead of time.