Continuity

[Warped9]

In all honesty, given on you what post and ideas, I would say they were correct.

Yep. And I suppose you're inclined to join that crowd. We spell out why we're critical, but because it's not what they want to hear or something they figure they'll just assume we have no legitimate reason other than hate.

You know what? I do hate the fucking the film. Not because it exists. Not because it's a reboot. Not because it's a new cast. I hate the fucking thing because they made a thorough mess of it. And I don't give a shit how that sounds because I've disliked lots of things that were popular.

- I cannot stand (c)rap music.
- I've never liked heavy metal.
- I loathe most sitcoms with Friends at the top of the list.
- I hated ENT and VOY with a passion.
- NuBSG did nothing for me.

I could go on, but to what point? Generally speaking I'm highly skeptical of popular things because I think most often a lot of people flock to something because a lot of other people seem to. It isn't always true, but I find it often true. Individuals can be smart but collectively speaking people can tend to be like lemmings and can be inclined to follow what everyone else seems to be doing.

I try to give people credit for their likes and dislikes and for how they may express themselves, but I run out of patience when they don't reciprocate. I let others express their opinion, even if I disagree, and I expect the same courtesy. But when some assume a hidden motive on my part without a shred of proof other than they just want to discredit my opinion then the gloves are off and I've got no fucking time for them anymore.

And so I say what I think and if someone can't stomach hearing it then too damned bad for them.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Of course, I will join the crowd to say that you come into a lot of topics just to complain and whine about the new film and the film's fans. This is the fourth topic where you have done so.

I can understand your reasons on why you do not like the film, but it is getting tiresome with you and your whining on how the fan's films are oppressing you even when no one has done so.

Yes, the film fits in within continuity, especially if you read Star Trek: Countdown and Star Trek: Nero which are two tie-in comics written by writers of the movie. They give good background filler with numerous TNG tie-ins as well.

 

[BillJ]

Yes, the film fits in within continuity, especially if you read Star Trek: Countdown and Star Trek: Nero which are two tie-in comics written by writers of the movie. They give good background filler with numerous TNG tie-ins as well.

I have my issues with the film, but telling people that they need to read tie-in material to make sense of it really doesn't help.

I do think the tie-in material makes the story feel more complete. Then again I don't mind reading it, some do.

The story, as presented in the film, should be able to stand on its own. And it really doesn't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, the film fits in within continuity, especially if you read Star Trek: Countdown and Star Trek: Nero which are two tie-in comics written by writers of the movie. They give good background filler with numerous TNG tie-ins as well.

I have my issues with the film, but telling people that they need to read tie-in material to make sense of it really doesn't help.

I do think the tie-in material makes the story feel more complete. Then again I don't mind reading it, some do.

The story, as presented in the film, should be able to stand on its own. And it really doesn't.

The only tie in I've read was the novel. And I tend to discount anything I've heard about from the comics. The story works fine without them.

 

[BillJ]

Yes, the film fits in within continuity, especially if you read Star Trek: Countdown and Star Trek: Nero which are two tie-in comics written by writers of the movie. They give good background filler with numerous TNG tie-ins as well.

I have my issues with the film, but telling people that they need to read tie-in material to make sense of it really doesn't help.

I do think the tie-in material makes the story feel more complete. Then again I don't mind reading it, some do.

The story, as presented in the film, should be able to stand on its own. And it really doesn't.

The only tie in I've read was the novel. And I tend to discount anything I've heard about from the comics. The story works fine without them.

Obviously your mileage varies.

 

[Steve Roby]

Yep. And I suppose you're inclined to join that crowd. We spell out why we're critical, but because it's not what they want to hear or something they figure they'll just assume we have no legitimate reason other than hate.

It's not what certain people say, it's how they say it.

You know what? I do hate the fucking the film. Not because it exists. Not because it's a reboot. Not because it's a new cast. I hate the fucking thing because they made a thorough mess of it.

You forgot to insult the people who do like the movie.

Individuals can be smart but collectively speaking people can tend to be like lemmings and can be inclined to follow what everyone else seems to be doing.

Oh, there you go. More subtle than CRA, though.

Seriously, though -- if Star Trek died for you in 1979, why do you care about this movie?

 

[captcalhoun]

i wanted to like the movie, i really did. i've been watching Trek since i was knee-high to a grasshopper. i love the novels. i played Elite Force for years.

i like JJ. i loved Alias and MI3. i love Fringe. i love Cloverfield.

then they said reboot. and i thought 'why?'

then i thought, 'okay, maybe it'll work'

i saw the teaser and i thought 'wtf?' but i LITERALLY got spine-tingles at Len Nimoy's VO.

i watched the trailer and THAT was when i started to doubt more. but i thought, maybe i'm being too harsh. maybe it will rock.

it didn't. i walked out the cinema thinking it was okay, not great, but OK.

then when i was telling my mum about it, i suddenly said to her 'you know what? it was actually crap. the characters were great but there was so much in it that didn't make sense and i couldn't see the reason why they'd done it and all...'

and that was it. i decided that i wouldn't buy the DVD. i wouldn't bother watching it on TV. for me, Trek is about the books and the old shows.

i dunno whether i'll bother with XII.

 

[PrimeDirective]

i wanted to like the movie, i really did. i've been watching Trek since i was knee-high to a grasshopper. i love the novels. i played Elite Force for years.

i like JJ. i loved Alias and MI3. i love Fringe. i love Cloverfield.

then they said reboot. and i thought 'why?'

then i thought, 'okay, maybe it'll work'

i saw the teaser and i thought 'wtf?' but i LITERALLY got spine-tingles at Len Nimoy's VO.

i watched the trailer and THAT was when i started to doubt more. but i thought, maybe i'm being too harsh. maybe it will rock.

it didn't. i walked out the cinema thinking it was okay, not great, but OK.

then when i was telling my mum about it, i suddenly said to her 'you know what? it was actually crap. the characters were great but there was so much in it that didn't make sense and i couldn't see the reason why they'd done it and all...'

and that was it. i decided that i wouldn't buy the DVD. i wouldn't bother watching it on TV. for me, Trek is about the books and the old shows.

i dunno whether i'll bother with XII.

What I pay attention to are TOS, TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise (t.v. shows and novels that have consistency with each other).

 

[Warped9]

Of course, I will join the crowd to say that you come into a lot of topics just to complain and whine about the new film and the film's fans.

If people can sing high praise about something I can just as easily call it shit when I see it that way.

Oh, but I forgot only favorable remarks are allowed.

This film is all over these boards and cropping up in all manner of threads. If someone raises the issue then I'm perfectly free to dissent. You may get tired of criticism, but I get just as tired of remarks fawning over something less than mediocrity.

So too bad.

 

[Thrawn]

Ok, Warped9, let's look at your presence in this thread so far.

You've made 5 posts. Of the 5, 4 have been asserting your right to post that you hate the movie whenever you want to, and the other was further explaining your reasoning to do so.

Nowhere in any of those 5 posts has there been an opinion of any kind on Continuity (the thread topic), or even what you dislike about Trek XI. Instead, you've listed a bunch of other various things you don't like, informed us you can be negative whenever you want, and implied that most of the people disagreeing with you are only doing so because they are sheep.

I think a lot of messageboard users, when they have the same argument over and over, start to feel like everyone knows their positions when they actually don't. All you've contributed to this thread is free-form ANGER at unspecified people for exaggerated reasons. I think it's legit for people to feel frustrated about that.

And I know I'm not on topic either, but I like the idea that discussions around here are civil, and this is like the fourth simultaneous hyperbolic argument about whether we're allowed to post about opinions about a movie that isn't even the topic of this forum going on right now, and it's starting to pollute the atmosphere. I think it'd be fantastic if everyone just dialed it down a notch.


EDIT, so as not to double post:

Or, here's another way for me to explain where I'm coming from. I teach geometry for a living, and it feels like if the physics teacher down the hall came in and every time I did a problem where my kids had to give an answer in inches, they went on a rant about how the standard system sucks and everyone should use the metric system, and everyone in my class should know that because they talk about it in their class all the time. But, not only do we not have any idea what he's talking about, it isn't even relevant to the problem because we're not talking about if inches are better, we're just using them to do something else.

This is the TrekLit forum, not the Trek XI forum, but it seems like most of the time Trek XI is brought up for any reason at all even if we're not really talking about how good it is, someone like you or CRA comes in and starts ranting about how THEY CAN SAY IT SUCKS IF THEY WANT TO, and if you don't want to read it, TOO BAD. And I, at least, am mostly confused by this. Because that's totally not the topic of conversation at all.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The smart thing would be to move your anti-STXI rants to your sigs, then you get your opinion across wherever you go and can hopefully keep your actual posts relevant to the topics at hand.

And, Prime Directive? I really like the shows you listed, but Enterprise and TOS did *not* have consistancy with each other. Sorry.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TOS at times had constistancy problems with it's self. I'll even go out on a limb and say ENT was probably more consistant with TOS than TOS was!

 

[Warped9]

KingDaniel and Thrawn, I merely picked on what was already being said. And then you call me on it for following through?

Threads go off on tangents. I didn't steer it away. I just added to what was already being said.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I have no problem with threads going on tangents or people hating the movie, it's just that ten months on we've heard all the arguments for and against. We know about the plot holes. Has anyone's opinion actually been changed? Has anyone who watched the film and liked it read any of the anti-XI stuff online and changed their minds? Has someone hated the film, read someones "OMG best film eva!!1!!!" post and decided they like it now?
One single time, when the shit hit the fan and the technophiles freaked as one (the day ILM said the new Enterprise was 725m long), on Trekmovie.com, I read someone say (something along the lines of) they liked the film but now, because they changed the size of the ship they don't. And he meant it. Because they made the ship bigger. Which was obvious from watching the film. Those are the sort of people you can convert. Would you really want them?

 

[Christopher]

TOS at times had constistancy problems with it's self. I'll even go out on a limb and say ENT was probably more consistant with TOS than TOS was!

Oh, absolutely. Most of the "continuity errors" ENT was accused of were actually conflicts with long-held fan assumptions, material from The Making of Star Trek, and other things that were never actually stated onscreen at all. Or else they were trivial matters of design and technology, and we know that if Roddenberry had had the opportunity to do a prequel or contemporary series to TOS, he wouldn't have hesitated to upgrade the technology, consistency be damned, because the look of TOS was merely the best they could do with the limited resources they had.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I think that how ENT looks more futuristic than TOS argument is completely pointless. What would ENT look like if you went backwards with a 60s-ish technology, World War II submarines? Besides, ENT technology does fit in with the TOS, especially if you do not include most of the fan work. I didn't agree with rank pips or the lack of promotions.

 

[PrimeDirective]

I think that how ENT looks more futuristic than TOS argument is completely pointless. What would ENT look like if you went backwards with a 60s-ish technology, World War II submarines? Besides, ENT technology does fit in with the TOS, especially if you do not include most of the fan work. I didn't agree with rank pips or the lack of promotions.

What are you talking about?

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Which part? The futuristic look of ENT in comparsion to TOS was a big argument topic back when ENT came out.

ENT used rank pips rather than braids to denote rank, and no one got promoted at all during ENT's run. I don't mean the senior officers, but rather Reed, Mayweather, and Sato were Lieutenant and Ensigns respectively. You would think that time in rank would have automatically promoted them or at least given the fact that each of them did remarkable things during their tenure on the Enterprise, yet they were not even promoted by the time of These are the Voyages, many years later.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I dont see why they should have stripes rather than pips. Both are used by the Military. ENT was only on for four years only a season long than TOS, which also didn't give out promotions.

 

[BillJ]

I dont see why they should have stripes rather than pips. Both are used by the Military. ENT was only on for four years only a season long than TOS, which also didn't give out promotions.

Actually, Spock went from a Lieutenant (The Cage), to a Lieutenant Commander (Tomorrow is Yesterday) and then to a full Commander (The Enterprise Incident). IIRC.