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Continuity

I wasn't talking about Enterprise looking more advanced than TOS, or that it had a warp core or anything like that. What annoyed me was stuff like Romulans having cloaking devices as standard issue, despite it being a scary new technology in two TOS episodes. If they explained that Future Guy gave it them (as he did the Suliban, I always bevieved he was a Romulan attempting to alter the Romulan War), but that story was killed off before it really went anywhere.

But if you look over the whole sweep of ST history, it's clear that cloaking devices have been a "new" technology many times. The BoT cloak could be detected by motion sensors, but then the "Enterprise Incident" cloak was a new breakthrough that defeated that weakness. Starfleet obtained that cloak through espionage, and presumably penetrated it, but then the Klingons developed a cloak that confounded sensors but could still be detected by visual distortion (as seen in ST III). Then they fixed that problem and developed a cloak that a ship could fire through, but Spock was able to confound that cloak by detecting the gaseous exhaust of the engines. So that cloak presumably was busted as well. Yet 75 years later in TNG, the Romulans and Klingons both have nearly perfect cloaks that Starfleet can't detect, except eventually Starfleet figures out they can be partially detected by neutrino emissions. And they can't be fired through. And so on.

So it's already implicit in canon that there's a constant arms race between stealth and detection, that there have been multiple times in history when one cloaking technology is penetrated and rendered obsolete until another new kind of cloaking device is later invented. Thus, it's no problem at all to incorporate the 22nd-century Suliban and Romulan cloaks into that sequence. It's no more of a contradiction than TNG showing that Klingons can't fire through cloaks in the 2360s even though they could in the 2290s. You just conclude they're different types of cloak.


Also: Meeting the Ferengi (although the episode was alright) when they explicitly said it was a first contact in TNG.

It was a first contact as far as they knew. Even fictional characters aren't omniscient. It's no contradiction if they didn't know there was a prior contact. And the ENT episode made sure that the name "Ferengi" was never mentioned. The species may not even have called itself that at the time; they may have had a different dominant language.

And it's not like there isn't precedent. "Q Who" was presented as the first contact with the Borg, but Voyager contradicted that with Seven of Nine's backstory.

There is real-life precedent, as well. For centuries, we thought Christopher Columbus' voyage in 1492 was the first contact between Eurasia and the Americas. But we now know that the Norse established the Vinland colony in North America in the year 1000. There's some linguistic evidence that the Zuni Indians of California may have had contact with the Japanese in medieval times. And the Inuit have been crossing the frozen Bering Strait between Siberia and Alaska for thousands of years. So what's believed to be a "first contact" is sometimes preceded by several other "first contacts" that get forgotten or aren't widely known. It's just the first contact that history definitively records. And history is intrinsically imperfect.

Indeed, as a student of history, I quite like the fact that ENT contradicted some of the things we thought we knew about Trek history. Because that's realistic. If we could go back in time and witness the 18th or 19th century firsthand, we'd find a ton of "continuity errors" between the real thing and the version recorded by history. History isn't the actual past, it's just an account of the past, subject to bias and distortion and incomplete knowledge. If ENT's version of the 22nd century had been exactly what we expected it to be, that would've been rubbish.
 
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I wasn't talking about Enterprise looking more advanced than TOS, or that it had a warp core or anything like that. What annoyed me was stuff like Romulans having cloaking devices as standard issue, despite it being a scary new technology in two TOS episodes. If they explained that Future Guy gave it them (as he did the Suliban, I always bevieved he was a Romulan attempting to alter the Romulan War), but that story was killed off before it really went anywhere.

Also: Meeting the Ferengi (although the episode was alright) when they explicitly said it was a first contact in TNG.

The biggest crime Enterprise commited was, of course, being mostly RUBBISH for the first two seasons (for example: "Fusion" - in space, for one hour, NOTHING HAPPENS). Season 3, when they did their "F-K the timeline it changed now" thing, and did the Xindi arc, was the best, IMO.
One time I brought up how Archer seemed to get kidnapped a helluva lot and someone who had an ENT username and all said it wasn't that much...only 22 times or something!:eek:
They were serious. IS that right, though? I know it seemed like a lot, but did he really get kidnapped 22 times during the course of the show?
 
Attractive Female Fellow Captive: "How will we get out of here?"
Archer: "Relax, I'm a professional."
 
Well the NX Enterprise being more futuristic than the TOS Enterprise was a big argument, even the Ex-Astris-Scientia guy was even quoted in the TV guide or some Entertainment mag about that very fact.

I do agree that Enterprise was a show that went no where til Season 3. Yes, Archer was captured way too many times. He should professional escape artist on his resume.
 
Chrisropher, I agree that giving everyone "what they expect" may be dull, but the direction they went with ("more Voyager") was probably the stupidest desicion they could have made.

ProwlAlpha: I lost all respect for "that EAS guy" when I read his rant and rave over the 2009 USS Enterprise. It made James Dixon's tantrums (google his chronology, v17) appear reasonable. I'm still waiting for him to follow though on his veiled threat to somehow remove STXI from canon should his demands for a smaller Enterprise not be met. But I guess to spend so long on a website that goes into (way too much) obsessive detail, you probably have to be a little nuts!
 
I agree with you King Daniel, he has a good website, but after his Akiraprise rant, and now his Trek XI rant, I really don't go to his website anymore. He was one of the first too futuristic arguers. He started that on the Flare Forums (where I don't go anymore, the posters there are quite rude and assholes) and the SCN forums (where I dont go anymore, because of the same reasons) If you want militant Trek fans, go to those two forums.
 
ProwlAlpha: I lost all respect for "that EAS guy" when I read his rant and rave over the 2009 USS Enterprise. It made James Dixon's tantrums (google his chronology, v17) appear reasonable. I'm still waiting for him to follow though on his veiled threat to somehow remove STXI from canon should his demands for a smaller Enterprise not be met. But I guess to spend so long on a website that goes into (way too much) obsessive detail, you probably have to be a little nuts!

Where is Dixon's rant? I'm curious as I've never heard of him or his chronology (I'm not THAT plugged into Trek fandom efforts), and I always love reading hardcores lose their shit over minutiae. I found his site, and the v17 chronology, but all I see are the entries themselves. No rant.

And where did the EAS Guy threaten de-canonization of Trek XI?? I gotta read that too.

Thanks.
 
Dixon's rants are at the end of the chronology, amongst the notes. Open the file and do a search for "Wrong!" - that should take you to the Enterprise bit.
I've had hours of fun reading JD's nutty take on Trek - his rants are quite amusing.

The EAS "threat" is subtle (and not really a threat, I overstated and apologize), near the end of his page on the latest Enterprise. It's something along the lines of "The film would decanonize itself with such an absurdly sized Enterprise" (what has the size of the ship got to do with canon? Only he knows). I'm on my phone, so I can't provide the exact quotes I'm afraid. His rant isn't nearly as interesting as James Dixon's (I'd love to hear Dixon's take on the new film - it would be epic), and is more about condemning every artistic choice made and emphasizing the "ignorance" of Ryan Church and co for not doing what the old guard would have.
 
Dixon's rants are at the end of the chronology, amongst the notes. Open the file and do a search for "Wrong!" - that should take you to the Enterprise bit.
I've had hours of fun reading JD's nutty take on Trek - his rants are quite amusing.

The EAS "threat" is subtle (and not really a threat, I overstated and apologize), near the end of his page on the latest Enterprise. It's something along the lines of "The film would decanonize itself with such an absurdly sized Enterprise" (what has the size of the ship got to do with canon? Only he knows). I'm on my phone, so I can't provide the exact quotes I'm afraid. His rant isn't nearly as interesting as James Dixon's (I'd love to hear Dixon's take on the new film - it would be epic), and is more about condemning every artistic choice made and emphasizing the "ignorance" of Ryan Church and co for not doing what the old guard would have.

Cool, man. Thanks. If you can point me to some of Dixon's best moments, that would be great.
 
I'm guessing Spock was a Lieutenant in both pilots. The single stripe matches the one Number One wears and she is mentioned as a Lieutenant. Whether Kirk is a Commander or Captain is anyone's guess.

Though nothing is set in stone. I usually chalk it up to personal interpretation. :techman:
Lt. Commander Gary Mitchell has a single stripe in WNMHGB as does Captain Christopher Pike in the Cage. Both mentioned in dialog. :shrug:
 
Other than his Enterprise-is-the-worst-crime-against-humanity-ever tirade, the other one that sticks in my head is his Star Trek Maps (1980) vs. Star Trek Star Charts (2002) rant. We're talking two sets of pretend space maps, done by the same guy, some twenty years apart. They're both pretty to look at but aren't really of any real use to anyone since everyone knows Trek worlds are invented and moved around at will, and that Trek ships move at the speed of plot. Both are neat but unessential.
James, on the other hand, is furious that the shape of Federation space was changed, that the Klingon and Romulan empires were moved from their Star Fleet Technical Manual locations, that Andor is now Andoria and has moved to a different star system and so on. He finishes labelling the author a traitor and a sell-out. Honestly.

Just scoll to a random point in the notes and annotations after the timeline proper. Hours of fun and interesting trivia, seen though a glass, darkly.
 
I just loved watching his rants on here, until he was banned, God knows why. So entertaining to see someone so violently believing in something that's not real or at least tangible. You really don't need to wonder why we have suicide bombers.
 
^Thoughts like that come to mind every time I go browsing though some of the more fanatical corners of TBBS (usually whenever the STXI Enterprise size topic comes up). It's like a microcosm of all the holy wars in the world.

James Dixon was before my time at TBBS, and I haven't heard anyone say anything nice about him since I've been here. Was he really as bad as everyone says?
 
Just scoll to a random point in the notes and annotations after the timeline proper. Hours of fun and interesting trivia, seen though a glass, darkly.
I have his stuff linked on my site for the sake of completeness, but there's a reason he's at the bottom of the sub-section for Star Trek timelines...
 
Dammit, he used to post on here?! I totally missed out. What was his username? I gotta search out his posts...
 
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