Commander Tucker?

[CaptainSpirk]

Re-watching some old "Enterprise" episodes lately, I don't know why, I have noticed that Commander Tucker comes off as a little arrogant when dealing with other species. Have anyone else noticed this?

For example, when he's talking to someone on the viewscreen, he's alway's shouting at them for some strange reason. He's even always rude to the Vulcans, this is understandable. I don't think he attended Starfleet's class on how to be diplomatic to other species, as that is not the way to communicate with them. If it were other officers, such as Riker during Picard's era or the officers during Janeway's era, they would have been demoted in an instant.

Even Captain Archer comes off as a little arrogant. How he achieved the rank of Captain is beyond me.

This is probably why I never liked the show to begin.

Maybe its the actor who's portraying him is trying too hard, or maybe he was written that way. But it's a little strange to think that a Starfleet officer who would meet other species would be calmer instead of shouting all the time. I need to watch more to see if he settles down during the later seasons, or if he remains throughout until the end.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

[Voth commando1]

Tucker is an engineer not a diplomat, he likes his explanations fast and succinct.

As for Archer-he and his father were instrumental in the warp program furthermore diplomacy with unknown aliens is waay different than diplomacy at say Vienna.

Note: I know you don't like the show, however remember these sub-forums are for the fans thereof, complaining or causing a russle will not result in you being treated warmly here.

 

[Brass]

Jeez, scare the guy off why don't you?

I am a huge ENT fan, but I don't think he was bashing the show necessarily. The criticism has some merit. It is definitely in Tucker's personality to be outspoken, and we see him get in trouble for it [episode with the 3 gender species]. But where I think the OP is saying it was just bad writing, I think the writers were trying to convey how starfleet had more relaxed rules in its infancy, or just didn't have the foresight to put them in place prior to "launch". Where incidents like the aforementioned lead to more strict codes of conduct and the prime directive etc. I can't really think of an instance where Tucker acts out of turn and gets away with it? There always seems to be a consequence. He is my favorite character so maybe I'm giving him a pass.

 

[Voth commando1]

The OP created an earlier thread where he complained about ENT not being retro enough. He has admitted he disliked the show.

 

[Brass]

Well hopefully I didn't feed a troll.

As for being retro enough, I've heard that "criticism" before. It doesn't make any sense. Are they supposed to use 60s props? I personally feel they did a good job of capture the ST look while updating the props to modern TV [at the time] standards.

 

[Voth commando1]

Yeah he actually said something to the effect of he wanting the show to use sixties props and uniforms. He couldn't be reasoned with that, that was a bad idea.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

For Tucker his manner it's a little more understandable (and acceptable), seeing as how he is an engineer and this is the first deep space mission of its kind, so he will be a little rough around the edges, though this does ease over time (until the Xindi incident). Also the fact that he is a charming and quite likeable character also helps.

As for Archer, I'd have to agree with the OP, how he became Captain baffles and perplexes me! Other than him having a prominent father there is nothing in what he does that makes him captainy material--especially for such a mission, Starfleet should've chosen someone who was a proven diplomat and negotiator rather than a pilot (which seemed to be his only real skill).

 

[Michael]

I'm just glad we're not accusing Trip of being a creep towards the ladies.

 

[Tenacity]

The OP created an earlier thread where he complained about ENT not being retro enough.

Seem to remember more than a few people agreeing with him, it wasn't like he was alone in his opinion.

 

[Sakonna]

It's funny, I'm watching Enterprise now for (sort of) the first time... when it was airing I watched most of the first season and the beginning of the 2nd, but I was not into it and drifted off. Recently, after seeing the millionth comment about how much better it was in seasons 3 and 4, I watched some season 4 shows and loved them. I decided to start back with season 1 and do a full rewatch. I'm liking it much more than I did initially, but I was reminded that it was exactly this arrogance from the characters that turned me off the first time. Knowing it fades as the series progresses makes it much more palatable to rewatch now, as the start of an arc, but back then I wanted to smack Tucker and Archer every week. They knew nothing, were convinced they knew everything, and regularly behaved as total assholes to those who knew more than them. Conceptually I liked having some more flawed human characters crewing the ship, but it just wasn't properly calibrated that first year.

Maybe it was the fact that Archer and Tucker were the two characters with the most arrogance, and along with T'Pol they comprised our lead trio, and so it often felt like two jerk men and the long-suffering woman who had to clean up after them. Maybe if Archer and Tucker had contrasted more in their approaches at the start, the dynamic would have played more effectively for me.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Note: I know you don't like the show, however remember these sub-forums are for the fans thereof, complaining or causing a russle will not result in you being treated warmly here.

I beg to differ. All views are welcome here as long as they are courteous and non-spammy. This is a discussion board, after all.

The OP created an earlier thread where he complained about ENT not being retro enough. He has admitted he disliked the show.

Back in the day when the show was first airing, there were a ton of folks who hated it and came here regularly to let everyone know. Loudly. The place was a war zone. But there were some great discussions.

Yeah he actually said something to the effect of he wanting the show to use sixties props and uniforms. He couldn't be reasoned with that, that was a bad idea.

Voth, judging your fellow members does not usually end well. I suggest you agree to disagree, and give it a rest, okay?

 

[CaptainSpirk]

I recently re-watched "SHUTTLEPOD ONE", a fantastic episode mind you, and even in that episode, Commander Tucker is rude toward Lt Reed, especially when they're facing certain doom. Always interrupting his log entries, his obituary and yelling at him to get some rest. Lt Reed was facing doom with certain pessimism but he had to slap him down for not being optimistic enough that they might be rescued. Fat chance given the circumstances they were in.

The only characters I didn't find arrogant were T'Pol, who was calm under the Vulcan logic; Phlox, who was a copy of Neelix; Mayweather; the aforementioned Reed and Hoshi.

As for Archer, I'd have to agree with the OP, how he became Captain baffles and perplexes me! Other than him having a prominent father there is nothing in what he does that makes him captainy material--especially for such a mission, Starfleet should've chosen someone who was a proven diplomat and negotiator rather than a pilot (which seemed to be his only real skill).

Who could forget Archer's line in "Broken Bow" to T'Pol: "You have no idea how I'm restraining myself from knocking you on your ass!" What a great Captain. Arrogant SOB.

Even Archer got into a few trouble with Starfleet, especially the incident at P'Jem. No diplomatic skills whatsoever. Even Kirk had a few diplomatic skills.

 

[Nyotarules]

Re-watching some old "Enterprise" episodes lately, I don't know why, I have noticed that Commander Tucker comes off as a little arrogant when dealing with other species. Have anyone else noticed this?

For example, when he's talking to someone on the viewscreen, he's alway's shouting at them for some strange reason. He's even always rude to the Vulcans, this is understandable. I don't think he attended Starfleet's class on how to be diplomatic to other species, as that is not the way to communicate with them. If it were other officers, such as Riker during Picard's era or the officers during Janeway's era, they would have been demoted in an instant.

Even Captain Archer comes off as a little arrogant. How he achieved the rank of Captain is beyond me.

This is probably why I never liked the show to begin.

Maybe its the actor who's portraying him is trying too hard, or maybe he was written that way. But it's a little strange to think that a Starfleet officer who would meet other species would be calmer instead of shouting all the time. I need to watch more to see if he settles down during the later seasons, or if he remains throughout until the end.

Anyone else noticed this?

Its the early days of Starfleet and Earth's first dealings with the galactic community. If you want to know why Archer and Tucker behave the way they do consider the history and culture of the nation they come from. Perhaps the Anglo Saxon, Western cultural arrogance of our past and present turns into Human cultural arrogance in the Star Trek universe. There is a reason Terra Prime existed, human prejudice/racism never went away, it just changed target.

 

[a thousand-yard stare]

Its the early days of Starfleet and Earth's first dealings with the galactic community. If you want to know why Archer and Tucker behave the way they do consider the history and culture of the nation they come from. Perhaps the Anglo Saxon, Western cultural arrogance of our past and present turns into Human cultural arrogance in the Star Trek universe. There is a reason Terra Prime existed, human prejudice/racism never went away, it just changed target.

Lol
Very subtle.
Check and Checkmate...

 

[CaptainSpirk]

Its the early days of Starfleet and Earth's first dealings with the galactic community. If you want to know why Archer and Tucker behave the way they do consider the history and culture of the nation they come from. Perhaps the Anglo Saxon, Western cultural arrogance of our past and present turns into Human cultural arrogance in the Star Trek universe. There is a reason Terra Prime existed, human prejudice/racism never went away, it just changed target.

I thought that when Zefram Cochrane made the first warp flight and made first contact with the Vulcans, Earth changed drastically by the time 22nd Century time came around. I thought they got rid of war, poverty, disease, currency, xenophobia.

Did the arrival of Vulcan's never eradicate prejudice on Earth?

 

[Voth commando1]

There were always going to be outliers-given the whole Xindi attack there would be a natural and predictable upsurge in anti-alien sentiment.

Frankly I'm surprised there wasn't more of an anti-colonial(this is a very charged term but I can't think of a better one) resentment of Vulcan interference in human society in the following fifty years or so following first contact.

 

[Takeru]

I too think that both Tucker and Archer were annoying morons. Archer was worse though, at least Tucker was actually a good engineer but what qualifications did Archer have? He sucked!

Flawed characters is a good thing even a flawed captain but his main flaw shouldn't be that he's the wrong man for the job.

 

[Jax]

I thought that when Zefram Cochrane made the first warp flight and made first contact with the Vulcans, Earth changed drastically by the time 22nd Century time came around. I thought they got rid of war, poverty, disease, currency, xenophobia.

Did the arrival of Vulcan's never eradicate prejudice on Earth?

The elimination of Prejudice has never occurred in Star Trek. TOS era had less than frosty relations between Humans and Klingons for example and it occured on both sides. Remember O'Brien's reaction to Cardassians on the ship and Humans & Romulans had negative opinion's of each other too. There was plenty of prejudice towards Quark at times in DS9 because of the view of Ferengi's.

We know that in the time since Vulcans made First Contact that war, poverty, hunger and many diseases has been eradicated. Also Vulcans and many other species are far less tolerant than Humans. Enterprise was the early days of humanity's journey into the Galaxy at large and they seem to follow a more "rougher around the edges" version of what we saw from Humans in later Trek shows, which makes sense in a prequel.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Phlox, who was a copy of Neelix

In what way?

 

[Tenacity]

but what qualifications did Archer have?

A big piece of the problem with Archer and never-endingly recurring question of how he obtain command of the NX-01 is we never find out what he was doing between the time he was a test pilot and the show's first episode.

Some fans have conjectured that it was it was his father's name and a personal friendship with Forrest that placed Archer in the captain's seat. Some backstory of servicing on another starship (they do have them), rising to first officer of one, or a prior extra-solar exploration mission with one would give Archer the credentials to be captain of his own starship.