Command Division Question

[Artoo Atari]

I'm just wondering why some pilots wear red and other wear gold.

I would think they would wear red, including fighter pilots. Perhaps certain pilots would be considered "tactical," and most tactical officers appear to wear security gold. However, I've always thought that it made more sense for tactical officers to wear command red (or gold, depending on the era) as well.

 

[The Wormhole]

It seems to be unique to the modern era where pilots now wear the operations color as opposed to the command color. IE, on Disco Detmer wore bronze piping on her uniform in the first three seasons, same as security officers and engineers while she wore a gold uniform in the 32nd century, as did her replacement at the helm in S5. Meanwhile, Ortegas wears red on SNW.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It seems to be unique to the modern era where pilots now wear the operations color as opposed to the command color. IE, on Disco Detmer wore bronze piping on her uniform in the first three seasons, same as security officers and engineers while she wore a gold uniform in the 32nd century, as did her replacement at the helm in S5. Meanwhile, Ortegas wears red on SNW.

Gary and Lee wore "coral" which is the equivalent of Detmer's Bronze and Ortegas' Red.

 

[fireproof78]

Gary and Lee wore "coral" which is the equivalent of Detmer's Bronze and Ortegas' Red.

Yeah but who remembers that?

 

[Farscape One]

Not necessarily. Dax was placed in permanent command of the Defiant during the Dominion War and still wore blue.

Captain Krasnovsky from Court Martial.

About that Captain...

I don't think it was established he commanded a starship. Captain by rank, sure, but there have been others who were a captain or above and never commanded a starship. (Captain Louvais from "The Measure Of A Man", as far as we know, never commanded a ship. Commodore Stone from "THE DEADLY YEARS" certainly didn't, as was said in dialogue.)

Which has no relevance to the matter.

None of her past lives were ever stated to have command experience, or any kind of military or war experience.

Except it was Admiral Ross who made that decision.

Regarding Dax...

While Worf was with Martok, Dax basically was Sisko's XO, so she would be the next in line to command the Defiant while Sisko was made Ross' adjutant. It's doubtful there were any spare captains around to take over that mission due to the war. And multiple Dax hosts have had combat and war experience... Curzon, Torias, and Jadzia at the minimum.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think it was established he commanded a starship. Captain by rank, sure, but there have been others who were a captain or above and never commanded a starship. (Captain Louvais from "The Measure Of A Man", as far as we know, never commanded a ship. Commodore Stone from "THE DEADLY YEARS" certainly didn't, as was said in dialogue.)

STONE: This court is now in session. I have appointed as members of this court Space Command Representative Lindstrom, Starship Captains Krasnovsky and Chandra. Captain Kirk, I direct your attention to the fact that you have a right to ask for substitute officers if you feel that any of these named harbour any prejudiced attitudes to your case.

 

[The Wormhole]

While Worf was with Martok, Dax basically was Sisko's XO, so she would be the next in line to command the Defiant while Sisko was made Ross' adjutant. It's doubtful there were any spare captains around to take over that mission due to the war.

Except Ross actually does tell Sisko that Dax is now the Defiant's Captain, which is why O'Brien tells Nog that regardless of her actual rank, she's to be addressed as Captain. Admittedly this matter gets muddled and is easy to overlook since the very next episode Sisko is back aboard the Defiant to lead the fleet to retake the station and thereafter everything reverts to status quo.

 

[Farscape One]

STONE: This court is now in session. I have appointed as members of this court Space Command Representative Lindstrom, Starship Captains Krasnovsky and Chandra. Captain Kirk, I direct your attention to the fact that you have a right to ask for substitute officers if you feel that any of these named harbour any prejudiced attitudes to your case.

Thanks for the quoting of the dialogue... I forgot about that bit. I stand corrected about Krasnovsky.

My point about the others, though, stands.

While having a starship captain not dressed in a color other than command (red for later Starfleet, gold for 22nd-23rd century) is not impossible, it's certainly extremely rare.

Except Ross actually does tell Sisko that Dax is now the Defiant's Captain, which is why O'Brien tells Nog that regardless of her actual rank, she's to be addressed as Captain. Admittedly this matter gets muddled and is easy to overlook since the very next episode Sisko is back aboard the Defiant to lead the fleet to retake the station and thereafter everything reverts to status quo.

Ross was reminding Sisko she was in command of the Defiant because he was up really late worried about the mission. O'Brien telling Nog about that tradition... yes, she was by all rights captain for that time. I'm not disputing that, I was simply saying why she would be the captain since Sisko got the job as Ross' adjutant.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

This is one of those situations where I think the producers and writers didn't want to be pinned down. Having brightly colored uniforms to announce what role someone has is really stupid for any armed service. Indeed, the Jem'hadar noted in an episode that they could pick out the high value targets on sight, IIANM. Normally, I might reference actual military traditions, but I don't think that they help here. Maybe some ships don't require a commanding officer who has not gone through the appropriate level of leadership training, so someone in blue or engineering red/gold will suffice. The Defiant was not a capital ship, so maybe Dax got away with blue. And maybe Rick Berman was too cheap to make a red undershirt for a woman's uniform, so Terry was forced to wear blue.

 

[The Wormhole]

Ross was reminding Sisko she was in command of the Defiant because he was up really late worried about the mission.

I was referring to earlier in the episode when Ross first tells Sisko he's becoming Ross's adjutant, and Sisko asks who will command the Defiant, and Ross says it's now Dax's ship.

O'Brien telling Nog about that tradition... yes, she was by all rights captain for that time.

Thing is, you don't address someone as "Captain" unless they are the ship's official commanding officer rather than just "captain for the time." Granted, Trek fans don't seem to get this nuance, particularly because of the Abrams movies where anyone who is in command of the bridge gets addressed as "Captain," even shift duty officers.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Thing is, you don't address someone as "Captain" unless they are the ship's official commanding officer rather than just "captain for the time." Granted, Trek fans don't seem to get this nuance, particularly because of the Abrams movies where anyone who is in command of the bridge gets addressed as "Captain," even shift duty officers.

So what should we call them if they aren't the actual "Captain" of the vessel, but are in temporary command of the vessel for the time being?

Should we call them "Skipper"?

 

[The Wormhole]

So what should we call them if they aren't the actual "Captain" of the vessel, but are in temporary command of the vessel for the time being?

Their actual rank.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Their actual rank.

According to the Wikipedia article for Skipper:

In the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Coast Guard, and merchant naval slang, it is a term used in reference to the commanding officer of any ship, base, or other command regardless of rank. It is generally only applied to someone who has earned the speaker's respect, and only used with the permission of the commander/commanding officer in question.

So given that historical lineage & logic, wouldn't the actual CO of the Vessel / Captain of the Ship be called "Captain" (NOTE: Said CO's / Captain's of a vessel are usually of the rank Captain as well).

Anybody else that isn't "The Captain", but is in charge on the bridge and put in charge by "The Captain"; shouldn't they be addressed as "The Skipper" for the time being?

This avoids the entire rank issue since they were assigned the command duty for the vessel for a temporary period in time while "The Captain" is off doing something else.

 

[fireproof78]

Their actual rank.

Indeed.

And then the officer on duty or officer of the watch. The Skipper, Old Man, and Captain still refer to the vessel's actual commanding officer.

 

[The Wormhole]

According to the Wikipedia article for Skipper:


So given that historical lineage & logic, wouldn't the actual CO of the Vessel / Captain of the Ship be called "Captain" (NOTE: Said CO's / Captain's of a vessel are usually of the rank Captain as well).

Anybody else that isn't "The Captain", but is in charge on the bridge and put in charge by "The Captain"; shouldn't they be addressed as "The Skipper" for the time being?

This avoids the entire rank issue since they were assigned the command duty for the vessel for a temporary period in time while "The Captain" is off doing something else.

Yes, but that's for the ship's permanent Captain, not a temporary one which you were asking. And no, the bridge's duty officer most certainly should not be addressed as Skipper.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yes, but that's for the ship's permanent Captain, not a temporary one which you were asking. And no, the bridge's duty officer most certainly should not be addressed as Skipper.

IC.