Chain of Command in TOS
- Thread starter Sito_Jaxa
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Good Will Riker
Admiral
For a moment there, I thought this post was asking whether or not TNG's "Chain of Command, Parts I & II" could have worked on TOS.
A Romulan commander (the female one
) ambushes, strips, and torchers Kirk to get vital strategic answers out of him.
"There...are...four...lights!" (And, he wouldn't even need to alter his speech for that!)
A Romulan commander (the female one
) ambushes, strips, and torchers Kirk to get vital strategic answers out of him."There...are...four...lights!" (And, he wouldn't even need to alter his speech for that!)
Well, if you just count the main cast, Uhura was #5 rank-wise on the bridge (i.e, not including Dr. McCoy), then Chekov. Chekov might have been given the conn more often than Uhura because he was in Command. Line positions would probably have preference.
Kirk -> Spock -> Scott -> Sulu -> Chekov, would be my guess. Spock and Scott weren't in the Command track, or whatever, but they were the next two most senior officers/department heads so would be in the chain of command.
But really, the person in command is whoever Kirk puts there. I'm sure there would be some sort of procedure (most senior bridge officer on shift, or something), but TOS never spelled out anything explicit.
Kirk -> Spock -> Scott -> Sulu -> Chekov, would be my guess. Spock and Scott weren't in the Command track, or whatever, but they were the next two most senior officers/department heads so would be in the chain of command.
But really, the person in command is whoever Kirk puts there. I'm sure there would be some sort of procedure (most senior bridge officer on shift, or something), but TOS never spelled out anything explicit.
Right. But the ship was teeming with Lieutenant Commanders and Commanders who weren't part of the regular bridge crew. Perhaps they manned the other watches, and the ship did not have a practice of replacing the watch with a "dream team" even during red alerts. And either everything interesting happened on the watches that did not feature Kelowitz or Finney, or then the adventures where those guys were in command were not televised...
IMHO, it would seem that Spock was in the command chain, pulling double duty thanks to his awesome Vulcan superpowers. Otherwise, he wouldn't explicate himself as the First Officer (or Second Officer, as his title goes in "The Enemy Within").
And probably rightly so. A formalized structure below Third Officer would really only be needed if the people higher up were all known to be dead. As long as they were only absent, or missing, the ship would best continue to operate on whatever "temporary" arrangements the Captain had ordered.
Timo Saloniemi
They were line officers.
I've always found it odd that Spock double role as Science Officer and XO has somehow become the 'standard' for many TOS-derived bridge ensembles, the most glaring example being T'Pol, who really should not have been second-in-command of an Earth ship, IMNSHO, even though she was the perfect science officer.
More interesting are "The Cage" and TMP. In "The Cage", Number One was apparently a dedicated XO (even though only a lieutenant), who took the seat of what was going to be just the navigator under Kirk's command. In TMP, Will Decker is basically useless, but still an XO (without a seat on the bridge?), while Spock is only the SO.
More interesting are "The Cage" and TMP. In "The Cage", Number One was apparently a dedicated XO (even though only a lieutenant), who took the seat of what was going to be just the navigator under Kirk's command. In TMP, Will Decker is basically useless, but still an XO (without a seat on the bridge?), while Spock is only the SO.
The seat of the navigator is a prestigious one in the later TOS movies (where we see various Lt.Cmdrs there) and in "Where No Man" (where Mitchell, a reputed Lt.Cmdr, has sometimes been considered to have been Kirk's XO as well).
But the latter example is interesting with regards to Spock as well. He wears command gold, and is never really explicitly identified as a/the science officer. For all appearances, Sulu is the SO in that episode, and Spock is a "standard", "non-doubling" XO. Perhaps the loss of Mitchell causes so much reshuffling that this forces Spock's exceptional double assignment?
Certainly the double duty for Decker in TMP is stated to be exceptional, too. And T'Pol's assignment is exceptional in every respect. It's an annoying writer convention, yet not necessarily an oft-repeated Starfleet practice.
Timo Saloniemi
But the latter example is interesting with regards to Spock as well. He wears command gold, and is never really explicitly identified as a/the science officer. For all appearances, Sulu is the SO in that episode, and Spock is a "standard", "non-doubling" XO. Perhaps the loss of Mitchell causes so much reshuffling that this forces Spock's exceptional double assignment?
Certainly the double duty for Decker in TMP is stated to be exceptional, too. And T'Pol's assignment is exceptional in every respect. It's an annoying writer convention, yet not necessarily an oft-repeated Starfleet practice.
Timo Saloniemi
When? I've seen every ep of TOS a zillion times and I can't think of when Checkov ever had the conn. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to know which ep this happened in.
``Journey to Babel''. At the end of the starship battle Kirk says, ``Mister Chekov, take over,'' just before getting chewed out by McCoy.
Admittedly, Kirk wasn't in the best of shape at the moment, and quite likely would have put a large, genial-looking squeaky rubber duck in charge if it was the first thing he saw, but it still puts Chekov in charge at least that time.
Cool. Thanks!
But that's all that for example Sulu or Scotty ever gets to do, barring further data. These people never take command by default, they are all appointed by Kirk - effectively painting them as OODs, not as people high up in the chain of command.
Only in the case of Spock does command "fall on his lap" when Kirk is incapacitated. But that little tidbit does us no good, since we already knew Spock was the 1st Officer.
Personally, I agree that Chekov is not high up in the order of succession. But apart from that, all bets are off. Is Scotty really the next guy after Spock? Or is Kelowitz, due to his equal rank and better-suited shirt color? Does Starfleet even believe in an order of succession past First Officer? (And what does it mean when Spock says he is the Second Officer in "Errand of Mercy"?)
Timo Saloniemi
Only in the case of Spock does command "fall on his lap" when Kirk is incapacitated. But that little tidbit does us no good, since we already knew Spock was the 1st Officer.
Personally, I agree that Chekov is not high up in the order of succession. But apart from that, all bets are off. Is Scotty really the next guy after Spock? Or is Kelowitz, due to his equal rank and better-suited shirt color? Does Starfleet even believe in an order of succession past First Officer? (And what does it mean when Spock says he is the Second Officer in "Errand of Mercy"?)
Timo Saloniemi
Of course McCoy is senior officer. But he's not a line officer.
Hansen is a line officer. McCoy is a staff officer.
Are you DeSalle's mother, or something?
But you have to finish my quote - you cut me off in mid-sentence! They are in the chain of command because they are the 1st officer and 2nd officer, respectively. Line officers. My guess is that the 1st and 2nd officers must have the ability to assume command in emergencies, and therefore are considered line officers no matter what their branch. Or that there must be some regulation determining at least the first three/four officers in the direct chain of command hierarchy should disaster strike and all bridge officers are wiped out. Or something.
Well, no one is technically "in command" unless Kirk is dead or incapacitated, but the OOD is STILL "in charge" during the watch when given the conn.
Yes, and this is the same reasoning I used putting Chekov above Uhura. It would seem logical that all Command branch officers are in the line, but not all senior officers/dept heads like McCoy. So though someone from the science (or engineering) department may outrank Chekov, as a gold shirt, he may be more likely to get the nod as as OOD.
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