Spoilers Captain Pike

[Starlocke]

I'll try to explain my questions to the best of my understanding without screwing it up too bad lol.

I started watching the original series this week on Netflix, the first episode had Captain Pike and I believe some other crew members, then in the next episode is Captain Kirk. Was there ever any story to the transition from Pike to Kirk? A friend of mine said the episode was one of 2 or 3 pilots that were filmed at the time, but it confused me there was no transition or reasoning behind it that I know of.

That led me to also ask if in the first of the newer movies they tried to fill in that gap by making Captain Pike one of the older captains, but I'm unsure as to what's going on with the newer movies. By this I mean are the newer movies an alternate timeline or universe because of the older characters that appeared?

Sorry if I should have made the 2 questions separate posts, I threw it in here because I think the 2 questions are kind of connected.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'll try to explain my questions to the best of my understanding without screwing it up too bad lol.

I started watching the original series this week on Netflix, the first episode had Captain Pike and I believe some other crew members, then in the next episode is Captain Kirk. Was there ever any story to the transition from Pike to Kirk? A friend of mine said the episode was one of 2 or 3 pilots that were filmed at the time, but it confused me there was no transition or reasoning behind it that I know of.

"The Menagerie" two parter later on fills in some details, but you don't see the transition.

That led me to also ask if in the first of the newer movies they tried to fill in that gap by making Captain Pike one of the older captains, but I'm unsure as to what's going on with the newer movies. By this I mean are the newer movies an alternate timeline or universe because of the older characters that appeared?

Sorry if I should have made the 2 questions separate posts, I threw it in here because I think the 2 questions are kind of connected.

The plot of the 2009 movie is that a Romulan ship time travels back to the day Jim Kirk is born, attacks the USS Kelvin and everything from that point onward is disrupted. Character ages are changed a little, but that's mostly down to the actors they chose and we're supposed to just roll with it.

 

[Timo]

The episode initially featuring Captain Pike and the episode introducing Captain Kirk are indeed bound together by the later two-parter "The Menagerie" - retroactively establishing that the Pike adventure took place in the same fictional universe, yet more than a decade before all the Kirk ones. This decade is never explored in detail, and we never learn exactly when the ship was transferred from Pike to Kirk, only that this specific transfer did take place.

It's probably exactly because we are told nothing that Captain Pike has become a relatively popular character, and the subject of many novels. It's thus no wonder he was included in the new movies, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Starlocke]

I just watched the 2 part episode and it made sense enough to me. While we don't see the transition, I thought it explained things pretty well pertaining to Pike. Now I need to watch the movie again to get caught up on the newer stuff too. Thank you for your responses, it's been helpful.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Out-of-universe explanation: NBC liked the basic concept, but found The Cage to be "too cerebral," particularly given Roddenberry's action-adventure pitch. They may or may not have objected to an unemotional female second-in-command; they DID object (to the point of retouching the pointed ears and slanting eyebrows out of early publicity pictures of Spock) to a pointed-eared alien. But they liked the concept enough to commission a second pilot, with a much stronger action-adventure component. Jeff Hunter was either unavailable or unwilling to continue with the second pilot, and so the cast was generally retooled. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" was the result, and a bit more retooling followed, leading to "The Corbomite Maneuver," and continuing at least through "The Enemy Within."

In-universe explanation, fleshed out by one animated episode ("The Counter-Clock Incident") and several novels (beginning with Diane Carey's Final Frontier): The first captain of the Enterprise was Robert April (the name taken from Roddenberry's earliest outlines and pitches), back when Kirk was no more than a teenager, followed by Christopher Pike, (and perhaps others that no writer has seen fit to "reveal"), then James T. Kirk, going through several refits in the process, none as ambitious as the one leading up to the V'GER crisis.

Abramsverse: You'll note that externally, the Abramsverse Enterprise kind of looks like some intermediate stage between the TOS and TMP versions; this is because Nero's incursion delayed its construction by many decades, and perhaps led to its being built, intact, in an Iowa cornfield, rather than having its unit components constructed in San Francisco, and assembled in orbit.

Hoaxverse: In the Hoaxverse, Roddenberry took an existing dime-novel-and-movie-serial Star Trek franchise, and made it his own, and if we were to dig up these supposed previous iterations, we'd meet April, Pike, and perhaps others. Then again, in the Hoaxverse, there's a suppressed third-season episode called "Requiem for a Martian."

 

[Kor]

It should be noted that "The Cage" was not aired at the time of the original TOS broadcast, nor in syndication in the following years.

Pike and co. only appeared in the two-parter "The Menagerie," which provided all the background and connecting info needed. So at the time, there would have been no viewer confusion as to why there was suddenly a different crew, or what happened to the old crew, between "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before," since Pike's adventure was not seen until "The Menagerie."

I believe Hunter was not contractually obligated to do a second pilot. Maybe someone else remembers the details better.

Kor

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

My understanding is that NOBODY was contractually obligated to do a second pilot, because second pilots were (and still are) about as common as hen's teeth, and you don't put somebody under contract to do something that's virtually unheard-of.

Be that as it may, "The Cage" was not seen by the public until Roddenberry took his personal black-and-white (probably 16mm) print to a science fiction convention, and until sometime in the 1980s or 1990s, when Paramount Home Video put together a version that combined color footage from "The Menagerie" with black-and-white footage from Roddenberry's personal print, it was only seen at occasional conventions, only when Roddenberry brought it personally (I don't think even Majel took it to conventions if Gene wasn't making an appearance), and never saw even a syndicated airing or a home video release, and it was not until years after that release that a complete full-color (again, probably 16mm) print of "The Cage" surfaced; the second VHS release (numbered "Episode 99") still uses Menagerie footage whereever it's available.

And of course, to this day, television shows get retooled between the pilot and the first production episode. Get Smart's pilot (never seen by the general public until TimeLife released it as part of the full-series set) was in black and white; Buck Henry's Quark had a different scence officer, the "crotchety, one-eyed" Dr. O.B. Mud (Douglas Fowley), instead of Ficus (Richard Kelton).

 

[johnnybear]

As a kid I always thought The Menagerie was filmed the same as the earlier episodes and not that it was footage from a failed pilot! It was an eyebrow raiser at the time I first found out I can tell you!
JB

 

[Greg Cox]

Exactly. "The Cage" never aired on television, except as seen in the flashbacks in "The Menagerie," so it's not as though audiences back in 1966 watched "The Cage" as the first episode, and then wondered what happened to Pike when the next episode aired. Ditto for when TOS aired in syndication afterwards. Only studio executives had ever seen "The Cage" in its entirety.

And remember, back in the day, TV shows were more episodic and less serialized, so there was less of an effort to try to explain these kind of things. When Yeoman Rand vanished midway through the first season, there was no explanation provided. When Chekov suddenly appeared at the beginning of the second season, there was no special episode introducing him or explaining where he'd come from.

With rare exceptions, the episodes were not meant to be watched in any particular order, and there were no ongoing "arc" plots or anything like that. And no home video or boxed sets so that you could watch the episodes in the "right" order. You watched the episodes when they ran on TV and that was that; you didn't expect next week's episode to follow up on this week's events.

TV was simpler then.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Nobody cared whether a character developed or not. In fact, I would venture to say they found the consistency of their good/evil status less jarring - fans were either in the hero's camp or (less often) the villain's.

Nowadays, nobody is black or white, morally; good guys do bad things while bad guys have understandable, if not justifiable, motives. While it gives us a more balanced perspective, it also asks tough questions of us about ourselves that we never considered before. Uncomfortable, but necessary.

 

[Starlocke]

This has all been quite helpful. I'm learning a lot here. Glad I certainly here to ask questions, especially as a bit of a newbie to taking in everything I can about the series. Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[johnnybear]

Exactly. "The Cage" never aired on television, except as seen in the flashbacks in "The Menagerie," so it's not as though audiences back in 1966 watched "The Cage" as the first episode, and then wondered what happened to Pike when the next episode aired. Ditto for when TOS aired in syndication afterwards. Only studio executives had ever seen "The Cage" in its entirety.

And remember, back in the day, TV shows were more episodic and less serialized, so there was less of an effort to try to explain these kind of things. When Yeoman Rand vanished midway through the first season, there was no explanation provided. When Chekov suddenly appeared at the beginning of the second season, there was no special episode introducing him or explaining where he'd come from.

With rare exceptions, the episodes were not meant to be watched in any particular order, and there were no ongoing "arc" plots or anything like that. And no home video or boxed sets so that you could watch the episodes in the "right" order. You watched the episodes when they ran on TV and that was that; you didn't expect next week's episode to follow up on this week's events.

TV was simpler then.

Just the way I like my television shows to be as well! You can watch them in any order whenever you like rather than the imposed ordering we have today!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Nobody cared whether a character developed or not. In fact, I would venture to say they found the consistency of their good/evil status less jarring - fans were either in the hero's camp or (less often) the villain's.

Nowadays, nobody is black or white, morally; good guys do bad things while bad guys have understandable, if not justifiable, motives. While it gives us a more balanced perspective, it also asks tough questions of us about ourselves that we never considered before. Uncomfortable, but necessary.

Nobody has said that Kirk and Spock or any of the crew are totally good, Laura! They have their faults and we get to see them too quite often in the series!
JB

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Nobody has said that Kirk and Spock or any of the crew are totally good, Laura! They have their faults and we get to see them too quite often in the series!
JB

True, my comments were more reflective of other shows in that TV era. But I dunno if any episode of TOS ever left you hating the crew, or members thereof, or preferring the villain. You might think he's funny or an interesting character, but you wouldn't be cheering, "Yeah! Get the Enterprise! Kill Kirk!" upon seeing the episode.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Only studio executives had ever seen "The Cage" in its entirety.

Actually, as I said, Roddenberry occasionally exhibited his personal print at conventions (and indeed, I seem to recall reading something, somewhere, about his having done so with both "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before" before "The Man Trap" aired!), and I'm pretty sure I saw it myself for the first time under such circumstances, probably sometime during the period when Creation was holding annual conventions at the Disneyland Hotel, or perhaps when they were doing so at Pasadena Center.

And I'm also fairly certain that Paramount's first reconstructed version did get a one-time syndicated airing, about the same time it was released on home video. Or maybe Roddenberry's personal print got aired. Maybe it was when the Los Angeles market strip syndication of ST went back to KCOP (after several years on KTLA). But of course, it was years after TOS had ended its run and gone to strip-syndication.

 

[Greg Cox]

Actually, as I said, Roddenberry occasionally exhibited his personal print at conventions (and indeed, I seem to recall reading something, somewhere, about his having done so with both "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before" before "The Man Trap" aired!), and I'm pretty sure I saw it myself for the first time under such circumstances, probably sometime during the period when Creation was holding annual conventions at the Disneyland Hotel, or perhaps when they were doing so at Pasadena Center.

And I'm also fairly certain that Paramount's first reconstructed version did get a one-time syndicated airing, about the same time it was released on home video. Or maybe Roddenberry's personal print got aired. Maybe it was when the Los Angeles market strip syndication of ST went back to KCOP (after several years on KTLA). But of course, it was years after TOS had ended its run and gone to strip-syndication.

True. I was mostly talking about the early days, before VHS or Creation conventions or any of that. "The Cage" first aired on television in 1988, more than two decades after TOS debuted, so the average TV viewer back in sixties and seventies never wondered what happened to Pike because they'd only seen him in flashbacks in "The Menagerie." We never experienced "The Cage" as part of the original series.

And, even later, it was simply a curiosity shown at conventions, not something that was ever included in the STAR TREK reruns airing in syndication. It didn't become widely seen or available until home video came along.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Thanks, Mr. Cox: I think we're in complete agreement, and in particular, thanks for pointing out what year it was when it finally did get aired.

Aside from the one-time airing in 1988, I think it might have been included in multi-day marathon airings, but I definitely don't remember ever seeing it added to the rotation on regular strip-syndication airings (if nothing else, because it would have to be either very severely cut, or the time slot extended, for it to even work in strip syndication, given the rather long running time.)

 

[Greg Cox]

Thanks, Mr. Cox: I think we're in complete agreement, and in particular, thanks for pointing out what year it was when it finally did get aired.

I confess I had to to look that up, but I knew it was long after some of us grew up watching STAR TREK reruns on TV. And certainly long after the show's original run on NBC. Nobody back in 1966 had seen "The Cage' on their brand-new color TVS.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

At least you had some idea where to look it up; it didn't seem like something that would yield to a casual query on Memory Alpha.

And until 1988, nobody (other than those who worked on the restoration and video transfers) had seen "The Cage" on anything other than a movie screen, projected directly from a film print.

 

[Kor]

According to Memory Alpha, "The Cage" was first aired on October 4, 1988.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Cage_(episode)

Kor