Blessed be the Sun

[A.V.I.A.F.]

A minor note regarding the sun/son thing: there's no need for anybody to speak English in the episode but Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

That is, there's no evidence that the followers of the Son would ever have spoken a word that in their own language could be confused with the word for the sun. It's the Universal Translator that creates this misunderstanding, by translating the local word for Son into an English word that can be interpreted two ways if not seen in writing. Had the UT chosen to translate the local word into "offspring" or "kiddo" or "fruit of God's loins" or whatever, Kirk wouldn't have gotten confused. But apparently the locals didn't use synonyms of Son so the UT didn't feel obligated to use synonyms, either...

What's non-primitive about the worshipping of fathers and sons, BTW? Isn't that even more primitive than sun worship?

Timo Saloniemi

But, doesn't Spock make the observation that the locals are speaking English (when the escaped slaves open fire on our heroes shortly after they have beamed down to the planet and warn them not to move)? Spock's exact line is, "Complete Earth parallel. The language here is English." Doesn't this imply that the UT was not necessary or perhaps not even being used?

 

[Timo]

Ah, true! Missed that completely.

The misunderstanding is still all Kirk's, so it seems rather unnecessary to have the locals use English instead of, say, Latin or a local alien language. But it's certainly another interesting challenge to explain how this one planet would be fluent in said Earth language when other parallel Earths (including the almost perfect copy from Miri) were not mentioned as having this feature.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Ah, true! Missed that completely.

The misunderstanding is still all Kirk's, so it seems rather unnecessary to have the locals use English instead of, say, Latin or a local alien language. But it's certainly another interesting challenge to explain how this one planet would be fluent in said Earth language when other parallel Earths (including the almost perfect copy from Miri) were not mentioned as having this feature.

Timo Saloniemi

Well since at the time of this episode, planet Magna Roma was experiencing the Earth equivalent of the mid-20th century and the fact that it is supposedly a "an amazing example of Hodgkins's law of Parallel Planet Development" as per Kirk's log; a solid argument could be made that English would naturally be the dominant language of power and government (as it was in mid-20th century Earth). The fact that it is an "amazing" example of Hodgkins might account for it being so much more similar to Earth both socio-politically as well as biologically than the planet in Miri.

 

[scotpens]

There were NO universal translators in TOS, except in the single episode “Metamorphosis.”

And TOS-era Starfleet didn’t have “away teams,” they had LANDING PARTIES! Damn retconners . . .

(I know, nobody’s even mentioned an “away team” in this thread, but I launched a pre-emptive strike.)

 

[Esteban]

There are so many nice touches in this episode. Given when it was produced, it may be the pinnacle of TOS. OTOH, "Journey to Babel" was right next door....

Aside from what has been pointed out, one of the RIGHT things they did was have Scotty--the cool, competent Scotty, not the cartoonish buffoon he became--suggest "just what a Starship can really do. Aye".

No tachyon pulses. No metaphasic interfaces. No endless discussion with annoying secondary characters. None of that later stuff. Just type and load the beams.

But really, as Senensky himself says, are there many more "perfect" Star Trek scenes than the McCoy/Spock dialogue:

"That's it, isn't it? Insecurity".

I challenge you to find much better interplay in the entire series.

 

[Botany Bay]

I can't disagree with you Esteban, that scene was one of the best Nimoy/Kelley bits in the series. Sadly, one I never even knew existed till 2004 when the uncut DVD releases were made. That brilliant scene was cut by the network on my old VHS copy

Wingsley - great post

Doug Otte - Agreed. Logan Ramsey was terrific as the slimy, bloodthirsty proconsul.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Doug Otte - Agreed. Logan Ramsey was terrific as the slimy, bloodthirsty proconsul.

Logan Ramsey was a treasure! I can't remember a single screen appearance by him that didn't tickle me to death!

Anyone remember his turn as a black-marketeering colonel (I think he was a colonel) in an early M*A*S*H episode:

Ramsey: (speaking to Trapper John) "I like you!" (to Hawkeye with disgust) "You have a nasty streak of morality! (to Trapper again) "But I like you!"

 

[Scrambo]

Perhaps merrik & those who survived taught the natives english, i would imagine they would have brought their own luggage with them when they abandoned ship. maybe this is how they learnt the language from texts etc brought down by merricks crew?

 

[T'Girl]

And especially since, just before leaving the ship, they watched a news broadcast from the planet in which the announcer spoke in English!

While still aboard the ship, they might not have realized the broadcast was in English. All it would have taken was a bit of carelessness on Uhura's part.

When she detected the incoming transmission, as a matter of standard Starfleet procedure Uhura feed the signal through the universal translator, now today if you feed English into a computer translator and tell it to convert to English, it will spit out English.

So Uhura simply might not have realized that she was doing a English in, English out translation.

Twit.

 

[scotpens]

While still aboard the ship, they might not have realized the broadcast was in English. All it would have taken was a bit of carelessness on Uhura's part.

When she detected the incoming transmission, as a matter of standard Starfleet procedure Uhura feed the signal through the universal translator, now today if you feed English into a computer translator and tell it to convert to English, it will spit out English.

There are NO FRICKIN’ UNIVERSAL TRANSLATORS in TOS Trek!

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

There were NO universal translators in TOS, except in the single episode “Metamorphosis.”

What about in The Changeling? Don't they use a translator to decode Nomad's mathematical language into English?

 

[T'Girl]

There were NO universal translators in TOS, except in the single episode “Metamorphosis.”

From The Lights of Zetar

Kirk: "Maybe we can avoid another attack. Lieutenant Uhura, open all channels. Tie in the universal translator. Mister Spock says it's alive. Maybe I can talk to it."

 

[Timo]

Contrast this to the fact that in only one episode, the heroes point out that aliens are speaking English - and they are amazed by the fact. Plenty of reason to think that UTs are at play in every episode, perhaps even helping Kirk decipher the Scottish mumblings of his Chief Engineer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Contrast this to the fact that in only one episode, the heroes point out that aliens are speaking English - and they are amazed by the fact. Plenty of reason to think that UTs are at play in every episode, perhaps even helping Kirk decipher the Scottish mumblings of his Chief Engineer.

Timo Saloniemi

Good one!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Contrast this to the fact that in only one episode, the heroes point out that aliens are speaking English - and they are amazed by the fact. Plenty of reason to think that UTs are at play in every episode, perhaps even helping Kirk decipher the Scottish mumblings of his Chief Engineer.

Timo Saloniemi

Good one!

So thats why Scotty's accent is so daft.

 

[Elder Knight]

There was a church -- Baptist, I think -- in my area that had a small marquee, one which could accomodate few letters.

For quite some time it read:

WED CHOIR
SUN WORSHIP

... which I don't think reflected their intent. Wish I'd taken a picture of it.

 

[scotpens]

What about in The Changeling? Don't they use a translator to decode Nomad's mathematical language into English?

From The Lights of Zetar

Kirk: “Maybe we can avoid another attack. Lieutenant Uhura, open all channels. Tie in the universal translator. Mister Spock says it's alive. Maybe I can talk to it.”

In “The Changeling,” Kirk asks Uhura to use the “translator computer.” So, I stand corrected — there are three episodes (out of 79) that mention a translating device. Still, like most space opera from Flash Gordon to Star Wars, Trek TOS largely ignored the language question altogether and assumed the whole galaxy speaks English.

 

[Greg Cox]

What about in The Changeling? Don't they use a translator to decode Nomad's mathematical language into English?

From The Lights of Zetar

Kirk: “Maybe we can avoid another attack. Lieutenant Uhura, open all channels. Tie in the universal translator. Mister Spock says it's alive. Maybe I can talk to it.”

In “The Changeling,” Kirk asks Uhura to use the “translator computer.” So, I stand corrected — there are three episodes (out of 79) that mention a translating device.


.

In other words, the UT appeared more often than the Romulans!

So I think we can safely assume that it's part and parcel of TOS . . . and was frequently used without comment.

 

[T'Girl]

There's also Metamorphosis, where a hand held UT is part of the shuttlecrafts equipment.

 

[scotpens]

There's also Metamorphosis, where a hand held UT is part of the shuttlecrafts equipment.

Yes, that’s the one I mentioned first.