Any new novels still using things from the Litverse?

[Freman]

Just wondering. Are any of the newer releases still using characters, places, ships, situations etc that first appeared in the Litverse continuity? I know there was a TOS novel or two that tied in with the ST: Vanguard series.

Have there been any others?

Also, can anybody steer me to somewhere that has a list of all Star Trek novels that have released since the Litverse ended?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I would imagine that anything not yet explicitly contradicted by DSC, PIC, SNW, or LD, and not explicitly declared to be a "First Splinter Only" element in Coda, would still be perfectly fair game.

 

[Freman]

Sorry, refresh my memory. First Splinter Only? It's been a while since I read Coda.

 

[David Mack]

Sorry, refresh my memory. First Splinter Only? It's been a while since I read Coda.

One of the premises of CODA was that the Prime (canon) and First Splinter (litverse) timelines diverged in 2373 at the moment the Enterprise-E returned through the temporal vortex at the end of Star Trek First Contact.

Because Vanguard was set in the 23rd century, it predated the timeline split.

 

[Freman]

Ah yes, I remember now. Thanks, David.

On a side note, I'm just now finishing off Reap the Whirlwind. Absolute banger of a story. Couldn't put it down!!

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

On a side note, I'm just now finishing off Reap the Whirlwind. Absolute banger of a story. Couldn't put it down!!

Hmm. I remember the whole Vanguard series not doing a whole lot for me, and I don't think I ever re-read it. Maybe I should give it another go.

 

[Freman]

Hmm. I remember the whole Vanguard series not doing a whole lot for me, and I don't think I ever re-read it. Maybe I should give it another go.

Everyone has different tastes. I've enjoyed the first 3 books so far.

 

[The Wormhole]

Dr. Tropp from the Enterprise E's medical staff in the Litverse was featured in the TNG novel Pliable Truths released last year, though he was obviously serving on a different ship as that novel was a TV series era story featuring the Enterprise D. Otherwise, aside from keeping things like the Andorian naming conventions and the Andorian genders, and the aforementioned Vanguard tie-in, not much else from the Litverse has been featured in recent novels.

 

[David cgc]

^ There’s been more than I expected, honestly. It’s just a lot of it is very small stuff, like one of the SNW novels mentioning that the Kobayashi Maru was a historical ship and not a purely fictional event.

 

[Christopher]

^ There’s been more than I expected, honestly. It’s just a lot of it is very small stuff, like one of the SNW novels mentioning that the Kobayashi Maru was a historical ship and not a purely fictional event.

That's been a common conceit since long before the novels used it. I remember seeing some fan blueprints of the "real" ship back in the day, and I think the ENT novels drew on some of the fan ideas about the ship and its crew.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Anybody in First-Splinter Starfleet, who was born before the divergence, might also be in Prime Starfleet, albeit not necessarily in the same assignment, or might have never ended up in Starfleet at all. If a character was already in Starfleet before the divergence point, the likelihood of being in Starfleet (and of being in the same assignment) in both Prime and First Splinter increases. Likewise, a chain of events already in motion before the divergence might play out in both universes, and it's anybody's guess how differently it would play out.

 

[JD]

I haven't read it yet, but according to Memory Beta The Dark Veil the Picard Titan novel has Christine Vale and Ranul Keru in it.

 

[David cgc]

That's been a common conceit since long before the novels used it. I remember seeing some fan blueprints of the "real" ship back in the day, and I think the ENT novels drew on some of the fan ideas about the ship and its crew.

Ah, I was under the impression that it went from a note in Star Charts of the location where the Maru was lost, to a one-line reference to it as a historical event in Mack's ATT novels, to being incorporated into the Romulan War arc. All the stuff in the ENT novel seemed to be from the stats seen on the viewscreen in TWOK, as far as the name of the captain and other incidentals. Though I do see a reference to it being a real ship in one of the '80s fan-made blueprints on Cygnus.

Still, I feel like I saw a reference or implication of the Kobayashi Maru being wholly fictional in the past couple of years, too. Maybe in a comic, or one of the autobiographies...?

 

[Christopher]

Though I do see a reference to it being a real ship in one of the '80s fan-made blueprints on Cygnus.

That's probably what I'm remembering.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Ah, I was under the impression that it went from a note in Star Charts of the location where the Maru was lost, to a one-line reference to it as a historical event in Mack's ATT novels, to being incorporated into the Romulan War arc. All the stuff in the ENT novel seemed to be from the stats seen on the viewscreen in TWOK, as far as the name of the captain and other incidentals. Though I do see a reference to it being a real ship in one of the '80s fan-made blueprints on Cygnus.

Still, I feel like I saw a reference or implication of the Kobayashi Maru being wholly fictional in the past couple of years, too. Maybe in a comic, or one of the autobiographies...?

Kobayashi Maru history here.

 

[Christopher]

Kobayashi Maru history here.

That's interesting, but it's weird that ST '09 and Prodigy both show the KM appearing on the viewscreen. I thought the idea of the simulation in TWOK was that the distress call was faked, that there was nothing waiting for the cadets but a Klingon attack force. I do recall reading prose versions of the simulation where it was possible to rescue the crew of the KM before getting destroyed, but that seems to go against the intent of the movie's scenario. I mean, there's certainly no way to win if there was never a real ship to rescue in the first place.

Although I guess it's possible that those ships on the viewer could be false sensor images, but we haven't usually seen that capability depicted in Trek, except with something like the Romulan holo-ship. Or the Klingons could've captured a real ship and had a squad of warriors aboard ready to attack any rescuers who made it that far.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Or the Klingons could've captured a real ship and had a squad of warriors aboard ready to attack any rescuers who made it that far.

Except that remember, this is a training simulation, that might have little or nothing to do with any historic Kobayashi Maru incident. And unless you're Kirk, and you hack the simulation in advance, or you're Piper, and you hack it on the fly, it's programmed to do whatever it takes to ensure that you never make it far enough to where a captured ship would need "a squad of warriors aboard."

As I recall, there was one novel in which Kirk was captured, and placed in a simulated future scenario in which Kobayashi Maru had evolved (or devolved) into a test of creative thinking, and cadets regularly beat it.

 

[Christopher]

Except that remember, this is a training simulation, that might have little or nothing to do with any historic Kobayashi Maru incident.

Yes, that's my point. If the goal of the simulation is to make it impossible to succeed in the rescue, then the simplest way is to have the distress call be a fake to begin with (though probably using the name of a real ship for verisimilitude), but another possible way is to have a real ship (if the cadets manage to survive long enough to reach it and think they're in the home stretch) yet have it turn out to be the next stage of the trap. I am not discussing whether the ship was real; that has absolutely no relevance to my comment. I'm just trying to rationalize the '09 movie's and Prodigy's conceit of having an actual ship visible on the viewscreen within the simulation, which seems questionable if the intent of the simulation is that the distress call is simply a Klingon trap.

 

[FredH]

Although I guess it's possible that those ships on the viewer could be false sensor images, but we haven't usually seen that capability depicted in Trek, except with something like the Romulan holo-ship.

There was that time Worf, I think, used it in the wargames exercise in “Peak Performance” (TNG). It’s kind of strange that that isn’t a standard electronic-warfare trick attempted in combat all the time (it’d become obvious that the enemy’s doing it, but still leave the problem of which is the real target, etc).

(Off topic, but it’s likewise strange that the Picard Maneuver apparently didn’t become a common tactic, either.)

 

[Christopher]

There was that time Worf, I think, used it in the wargames exercise in “Peak Performance” (TNG). It’s kind of strange that that isn’t a standard electronic-warfare trick attempted in combat all the time (it’d become obvious that the enemy’s doing it, but still leave the problem of which is the real target, etc).

Yes, Trek has used false sensor signatures before, but it's usually depicted as long-range readings of a ship's drive signature or shield frequencies rather than a visual image on a viewscreen. The usual scenario would be that long-range sensors show, say, the signature of a Cardassian ship, but when it comes in visual range it's clearly the Defiant. What I'm saying is that a specifically visual image on the viewscreen is beyond what Trek usually portrays in this context.

(Off topic, but it’s likewise strange that the Picard Maneuver apparently didn’t become a common tactic, either.)

Except the Picard Maneuver doesn't make sense in a universe with faster-than-light sensors. Only optical/electromagnetic sensors would be fooled, while subspace sensors would see right through it. I recall that in The Buried Age, when I depicted the Battle of Maxia, I had to come up with some handwave for why the maneuver actually succeeded.