Anti-Borg technology and tactics
- Thread starter Hando
- Start date
I dont get you?
Me too. Now we have our own little group. :P
I dont get you?
Me too. Now we have our own little group. :PI'll take "WTF?" for 300, Alex.
I dont get you?
Ok it my explination for why the Borg did there time travel thing in FC.
The Cube was sent to the Federation on a half arsed attempt to assimilate the feds as useal.
But on the way to earth the war with 8472 in the delta quadrant went sour. So the Cube on the way to earth was ordered to assimialte anything of use that starfleet had then loaded with the latest borg goodies send a sphere back in time.
300 years in the past the sphere would assimilate earth just cause it can (may as well take the feds out before they start, plus they already have assimilated there latest stuff before they went back in time) and then make contact with the past borg (especialy as that was one of there goals when assimilating the Ent E). Once they made contact with the past borg they could transfer all the lasted stuff to them resulting in a borg ending up 300 more advanced than they should be. With that knowlage they could be better prepared for when they pick a fight with 8472 or just stay the hell away from fluidic space all together.
The reason the borg didnt try again was most liley voyager came along shortly after and offerd a far safer option than messing anout with time.
That would explain why the borg do not use time travel as standard practice. They know it is dangrous to screw with the past and its only used as a very last resort. Like when they encounter a speices that have single ships that can blow 15 cubes up in one go and cant be assimilated or adapted to.
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That would have been after Saavik learned from Spock that Vulcans do lie, though. So it's probably a deadpan lie.
Would this really be realistic, though? The team was in contact with the rest of the universe - it could even commandeer the services of a big starship. Why shouldn't they be sending at least monthly reports on their progress to their superiors? Of the "here's how Genesis looks today, component by component, line by line" sort, rather than the "here's how we're keeping our schedule" sort, that is.
Just because Spock and McCoy don't know about it doesn't mean a thousand others in and out Starfleet wouldn't, too.
Timo Saloniemi
Exactly my thoughts.
I'm what some would call old--a couple of years shy of the senior discount at the early bird special. I appreciate spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
I finally understood your meaning after a couple of readings.
I'm what some would call old--a couple of years shy of the senior discount at the early bird special. I appreciate spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
I finally understood your meaning after a couple of readings.
O good greif I spelt explanation wrong someone call the police.
I got a few A, I and E wrong the wrong way due to dyslexia.
I hardly typed 1ike t}{1S.
Anyway its going OFF topic.
Ok ... well, nice talking to ya.I'm what some would call old--a couple of years shy of the senior discount at the early bird special. I appreciate spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
Ok it my explination for why the Borg did there time travel thing in FC ...
I finally understood your meaning after a couple of readings.
O good greif I spelt explanation wrong someone call the police.
I got a few A, I and E wrong the wrong way due to dyslexia.
I hardly typed 1ike t}{1S.
Anyway its going OFF topic.
Ok ... well, nice talking to ya.
My apologies i did not mean to be rude. Im just touchy when it comes to my dyslexia....its frustrating for me more than anyone.
Also, if they still had Genesis they could have shot one on Praxis instead of discussing a 10-year plan of rescue and evacuation of the Klingon planet, which supposedly is inevitably doomed.
I don't have one and I don't care. I don't have a need to explain or tie together everything that happens in a dozen different incarnations of Trek. I understand it may be fun for some folks, and that's fine, but I don't. But I was more reacting to mention of that ridiculous TCM crap that B&B pulled out of their butts and dropped like a hot tribble, and groaning over the idea that some writer tried to tie it together with the Borg on a strategic level. That, my friend, is facepalm-worthy. To me. YMMV, of course.
But that was not life or death. There was other options. Ones much more benificial to the federation, plus the klingons held a dim view of Genesis. If the Feds used one it might re ignite the fear the federation would use it as a WMD against them.
With the borg the situation is diffrent. Lossing means death for all be it Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian or Breen! Anything to stop the borg should be on the table.
I'd love to see what Genesis would do to Praxis, though. Would it still be, umm, crescent-shaped, only now all green and blue? 
I take it the idea would be that Klingons would abandon Qo'noS and move their gear to the reformed Praxis. Even if Genesis were able to create stable, livable planets (which it can't do AFAWK), Praxis would probably be pretty small for the needs of the Klingons...
Timo Saloniemi
I take it the idea would be that Klingons would abandon Qo'noS and move their gear to the reformed Praxis. Even if Genesis were able to create stable, livable planets (which it can't do AFAWK), Praxis would probably be pretty small for the needs of the Klingons...
Timo Saloniemi
Similar things could deny the Borg technology as well as warm bodies: hair-trigger self-destruct mechanisms would leave them high and dry in their attempts at assimilating Starfleet spacecraft.
Considering the massive scope of the Borg community as revealed in VOY, though, it would probably be hopeless to try and affect Borg strength by merely denying them the use of a pitiful ten billion bodies per planet. On the other hand, among ten billion might very well always be one or two individuals capable of causing havoc similar to that created by Hugh or Icheb at their (re-)assimilation, just out of natural reasons. So better let those billions be assimilated than have them preemptively killed, statistically speaking.
Of course, Picard, our very own expert on the Borg, doesn't think statistically - in ST:FC at least, he quite specifically kills those at risk of getting assimilated. Since he's capable of ruthless calculation on many other occasions, he probably very well knows what he's doing there. This skipping of the chance that the victim might hurt the Collective might establish that Picard's Locutus side knows the chance is way too small to count.
Timo Saloniemi
Considering the massive scope of the Borg community as revealed in VOY, though, it would probably be hopeless to try and affect Borg strength by merely denying them the use of a pitiful ten billion bodies per planet. On the other hand, among ten billion might very well always be one or two individuals capable of causing havoc similar to that created by Hugh or Icheb at their (re-)assimilation, just out of natural reasons. So better let those billions be assimilated than have them preemptively killed, statistically speaking.
Of course, Picard, our very own expert on the Borg, doesn't think statistically - in ST:FC at least, he quite specifically kills those at risk of getting assimilated. Since he's capable of ruthless calculation on many other occasions, he probably very well knows what he's doing there. This skipping of the chance that the victim might hurt the Collective might establish that Picard's Locutus side knows the chance is way too small to count.
Timo Saloniemi
1 or two planets no not effective.
But we are talking the domion here who would go out there way to try and infect as much the gamma quadrent as possible. So with borg losses in trying to take the domion being high they would have trouble getting easy drone replacements without sending them from other places.
And im sure section 31 would try and infect most the alpha/beta quadren
Its a weapon for the long run.
But we are talking the domion here who would go out there way to try and infect as much the gamma quadrent as possible. So with borg losses in trying to take the domion being high they would have trouble getting easy drone replacements without sending them from other places.
And im sure section 31 would try and infect most the alpha/beta quadren
Its a weapon for the long run.
It would be a possible way to hunt the Borg to extinction, yes. But why try such a thing if it doesn't result in your own survival, or even contribute to the survival of your friends and neighbors? Sacrificing one planet is fine for greater good, arguably. Sacrificing all of them means defeat.
Unless the idea is that the Borg would stop because they realize they aren't getting Drones this way. But why should they stop? They aren't losing anything by making all these rigged planets go poof. That is, they wouldn't win anything by ceasing to make them go poof.
I guess it comes down to whether the Borg are serious about their two fundamental agendas: seeking perfection and spreading it to the masses through assimilation. The one and only reason not to hit a species rigged for self-destruct would be because the Borg feel pity for the lost souls. But the Borg might feel that any folks left unassimilated and thus unsaved will contribute to imperfection, so it's a good idea to have them die of the self-destruct plague!
Timo Saloniemi
Unless the idea is that the Borg would stop because they realize they aren't getting Drones this way. But why should they stop? They aren't losing anything by making all these rigged planets go poof. That is, they wouldn't win anything by ceasing to make them go poof.
I guess it comes down to whether the Borg are serious about their two fundamental agendas: seeking perfection and spreading it to the masses through assimilation. The one and only reason not to hit a species rigged for self-destruct would be because the Borg feel pity for the lost souls. But the Borg might feel that any folks left unassimilated and thus unsaved will contribute to imperfection, so it's a good idea to have them die of the self-destruct plague!
Timo Saloniemi
Two reasons:
1) They don't HAVE any superiors. Genesis was a civilian project under Carol Marcus' personal control that needed the Federation only for funding and research grants (which they got in the form of Reliant and assistance from the Starfleet Corps of Engineers). It was nobody's business but Carol's HOW Genesis worked, only THAT it worked, and to what extent.
2) Stage One was evidently completed without any Federation assistance at all, and the Genesis team was just finishing with Stage Two when Khan showed up and killed everyone. The actual Genesis Device -- which was to be used in Stage Three -- was just a prototype that had never actually been tested before: much larger and much more sophisticated than whatever device they used in Stage Two. It's not even clear at this point that the Genesis team had even furnished their final reports on Stage Two (hence the lack of updates in the Enterprise computer) which means they were still monitoring the Genesis cave, collecting data on the progression while they were waiting for Reliant to find a test site for Stage Three. If the novelization of TWOK is any indication, that final report would have been EXTREMELY pessimistic once it was realized that the genesis matrix was so inherently stable.
IOW, they did NOT provide component-by-component reports on Genesis to the Federation because that data didn't belong to the Federation and they had no right to receive it in the first place. Compare with the COTS and CCICap programs NASA uses; the SapceX company has to demonstrate certain milestones if they want to receive continued funding, but they sure as hell don't have to furnish NASA with detailed blueprints and design notes on how to actually build and manufacture a Dragon capsule. Not purely because that information would be useless in the absence of a specialist who knew how to interpret the data, but because that information is proprietary and NASA has no business asking for it unless they have a legitimate reason.
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