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11th Doctor Casting announcment tommorow

well multi Doctor stories will obviously effect the Doctors timeline, since he is crossing his own time line.

I just find it hard to believe that the Doctor would simply forget something that happened in his past, just because a timeline changed, the only timeline he really exists in is his own, the changing of someone elses shouldnt effect him.
 
Ok, still, I don't see why any of this affects the canonicity (or non) of the Big finish audios...
 
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put simply its not TV, its not made by the BBC, why should I count it?

Why shouldn't I?

;)

You remember I said about 10 posts back:

But that's just me, everyone else will have their own interpretation. Nobody's wrong, nobody's right, and that's the beauty of the Whoniverse.
Another point though, Big Finish is licensed by the BBC, and their Who stuff is produced by a lot of the same talent that brings you the TV show. I really don't see the distinction, just because something isn't ultimately produced top-down from the BBC One's drama department it doesn't count?

RTD is not The BBC. The Mill is not The BBC. David Tennant is not The BBC. So there. :p


But seriously, I'm not trying to convince anyone to run out and get the audios. I'm just saying that to me, and many others, they are as genuine and important Doctor Who as the TV show is. We can argue about canonicity all we like, but nothing changes the fact that 'Davros' is utterly brilliant, or that Sheridan Smith makes a fine companion. IMHO obviously.
 
other than the license the Big Finish thing puts me in mind of the Trek fanfilms that feature actors from the Trek itself. I dont think I know of any TV show that has allowed its characters to be used like Doctor Who has with Big Finish.

and fine you count what you like, I think that is the only way this discussion is going to come to an end.

RTD, theMill & David Tennant are all employed by the BBC to make Doctor Who, unlike Big Finish who pay the BBC a licence to make fiction based on Doctor Who and its characters.
 
RTD, theMill & David Tennant are all employed by the BBC to make Doctor Who

Not in the same way that a checkout girl is employed by ASDA to scan your yoghurt.

unlike Big Finish who pay the BBC a licence to make fiction based on Doctor Who and its characters.

A fact that in no way cheapens the product. If you'd let a piddling technicality like that stop you from enjoying some of finest audio drama ever produced then it's your loss, frankly (I don't mean that in a nasty way, it just... is).

And likening them to a fan film - that's just absurd, seriously. These guys are professionals. Some of the best in the business, actually. Like I said, many of the same people work on/write the TV show. It's fine and fair enough to not be interested, or consider it 'canon', but insulting the quality of the work is pretty low. I hope that wasn't your intention.
 
I never said I would not enjoy a Big Finish, as I had said before I read the New Series Adventures, and would like to think that some of them do count, but just watching the new series tells me, they dont count.

and I was not saying the quality of the work was low, when I compared it to Trek fanfilms, as I only compared them to Trek FanFilms that feature actors playing the characters they played in the TV series.

and im not going to get into a discussion about the difference between a check out girl on ASDA, and David Tennant, that would be crazy.
 
To be fair, it wasn't just Paul McGann's tenure as the Doctor in the audios they were ignoring.

If you want to get really picky, in doing their retrospective of the ten actors who've played the Doctor, they also ignored Peter Cushing's Dr. Who from the films Dr. Who and the Daleks and Daleks - Invasion Earth 2150 AD; and they ignored Trevor Martin, who played an alternate Fourth Doctor in the stage play Doctor Who and the Daleks in the Seven Keys to Doomsday; and they ignored Adrian Gibbs, who played the Watcher, an alternate future Doctor, in Logopolis; and they ignored Richard Hurndall, who played the First Doctor in The Five Doctors; and they ignored Michael Jayston, who played the Valeyard, an evil alternate future Doctor, in The Trial of a Time Lord and He Jests At Scars...; and they ignored David Banks, Jon Pertwee's understudy in the stage play Doctor Who - The Ultimate Adventure in 1989 who went on two performances for Pertwee when he was ill; and they ignored Nick Scovell, who has played the Doctor, the Second Doctor, and the First Doctor onstage in productions including The Planet of Storms, The Web of Fear, Fury From the Deep, Evil of the Daleks, and The Dalek Masterplan; and they ignored Rowan Atkinson, Richard E. Grant, Jim Broadbent, Hugh Grant, and Joanna Lumley, who played the Doctor in Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death; and they ignored Mark Gatiss, who played the Doctor in The Web of Caves; and they ignored Nicholas Briggs, current voice of the Daleks and the Cybermen, who played the Third Doctor in the audi adventure Seven Keys to Doomsday and another alternate Doctor in the audio Exile; and they ignored Geoffrey Bayldon, who played the First Doctor in the audios Auld Mortality and A Storm of Angels; and they ignored David Warner (Gorkon from Star Trek VI), who played the Third Doctor in the audios Sympathy for the Devil and The Masters of War; and they ignored David Collings and Ian Brooker, who played alternate Doctors in Full Fathom Five; and they ignored Sir Derek Jacobi, who sorta-kinda played the Doctor in the audio Deadline; and they ignored Arabella Weir, who played an alternate Third Doctor in the audi Exile; and they ignored Jon Culshaw, who played the Fourth Doctor in the audio The Kingmaker and in numerous Dead Ringers skits. And, of course, they ignored Catherine Tate's and David Morrissey's faux-Doctors from "Journey's End" and "The Next Doctor." ;)
 
It's fine and fair enough to not be interested, or consider it 'canon', but insulting the quality of the work is pretty low. I hope that wasn't your intention.
In my opinion, there is a big difference between the TV show and the other parts of the Doctor Who franchise (books, audio plays, comic books, etc.): the TV show is made with a large audience in mind, while the others are made specifically for Doctor Who fans.

I've always thought that Doctor Who was much better when it could be enjoyed by everyone. Nothing bores me more than byzantine continuity references and canon fine-toothcombing. Even if it's well written and carefully crafted, if it's not something that my nephews and my mother could enjoy, it's not really Doctor Who for me.
 
In my opinion, there is a big difference between the TV show and the other parts of the Doctor Who franchise (books, audio plays, comic books, etc.): the TV show is made with a large audience in mind, while the others are made specifically for Doctor Who fans.

I've always thought that Doctor Who was much better when it could be enjoyed by everyone. Nothing bores me more than byzantine continuity references and canon fine-toothcombing. Even if it's well written and carefully crafted, if it's not something that my nephews and my mother could enjoy, it's not really Doctor Who for me.

Hmm, I can totally understand that. Good point actually, about the difference being it's made for fans.

I'm of that sort of shallow and silly persuasion that gets a hard on every time the new series references the old one, so you can imagine how "byzantine continuity references and canon fine-toothcombing" tickle my fan-nipples.

I gather the books are more guilty of that sort of thing than the audios are but I've not really dabbled in the novels beyond their wikipedia pages so I don't know.
 
Ooh, I've missed a big canon debate. Rats.

As a fan, I regard every Doctor Who story in any medium, even the blatantly contradictory ones, even the ones that don't fit my idiosyncratic definition of Doctor Who, as having happened in some way. This is Doctor Who, not Star Trek; there's room for fuzzy logic in the service of fun.

I'd draw a distinction between stories being "canon" and stories "counting." Canon in a fiction context is a set of stories that have happened and are (at least theoretically) binding on future stories. Doctor Who has never had a canon. RTD said in an issue of DWM that they don't talk about canon in the production office, ever. But you can still have stories that "count," that have an impact, without a formal canon. The episodes since 2005 count, in a bunch of obvious ways. The novels and audios have been directly adapted by the new series, and some of the dramatic directions the series has taken were anticipated by the spin-offs. Many new series writers worked on the spin-offs at some point. There's more similarity between the new series and the novels than there is between the new series and some eras of classic Who. Outside of a fanboy universe-building mindset, the fact that you can watch Human Nature on television is a sign that the spin-offs count, not that they don't.
 
To be fair, it wasn't just Paul McGann's tenure as the Doctor in the audios they were ignoring.

If you want to get really picky, in doing their retrospective of the ten actors who've played the Doctor, they also ignored Peter Cushing's Dr. Who from the films Dr. Who and the Daleks and Daleks - Invasion Earth 2150 AD; and they ignored Trevor Martin, who played an alternate Fourth Doctor in the stage play Doctor Who and the Daleks in the Seven Keys to Doomsday; and they ignored Adrian Gibbs, who played the Watcher, an alternate future Doctor, in Logopolis; and they ignored Richard Hurndall, who played the First Doctor in The Five Doctors; and they ignored Michael Jayston, who played the Valeyard, an evil alternate future Doctor, in The Trial of a Time Lord and He Jests At Scars...; and they ignored David Banks, Jon Pertwee's understudy in the stage play Doctor Who - The Ultimate Adventure in 1989 who went on two performances for Pertwee when he was ill; and they ignored Nick Scovell, who has played the Doctor, the Second Doctor, and the First Doctor onstage in productions including The Planet of Storms, The Web of Fear, Fury From the Deep, Evil of the Daleks, and The Dalek Masterplan; and they ignored Rowan Atkinson, Richard E. Grant, Jim Broadbent, Hugh Grant, and Joanna Lumley, who played the Doctor in Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death; and they ignored Mark Gatiss, who played the Doctor in The Web of Caves; and they ignored Nicholas Briggs, current voice of the Daleks and the Cybermen, who played the Third Doctor in the audi adventure Seven Keys to Doomsday and another alternate Doctor in the audio Exile; and they ignored Geoffrey Bayldon, who played the First Doctor in the audios Auld Mortality and A Storm of Angels; and they ignored David Warner (Gorkon from Star Trek VI), who played the Third Doctor in the audios Sympathy for the Devil and The Masters of War; and they ignored David Collings and Ian Brooker, who played alternate Doctors in Full Fathom Five; and they ignored Sir Derek Jacobi, who sorta-kinda played the Doctor in the audio Deadline; and they ignored Arabella Weir, who played an alternate Third Doctor in the audi Exile; and they ignored Jon Culshaw, who played the Fourth Doctor in the audio The Kingmaker and in numerous Dead Ringers skits. And, of course, they ignored Catherine Tate's and David Morrissey's faux-Doctors from "Journey's End" and "The Next Doctor." ;)


you forgot Lenny Henry also played him in a skit, the other actors from Dead Rinigers, Jim Broadbent played him in a Victoria Wood skit, REG played an alternate Ninth Doctor in Scream of the Shalka and George Layton in the French and Saunders Trial of a Time Lord spoof...
 
Sci you've out-nerded everyone here!

What, I didn't already do that by trying to calculate Rose Tyler's tax liability before meeting the Doctor? :guffaw::lol::rommie:

Don't try to trick us - you know as well as I do she was as basic rate as anyone ever was, and definitely PAYE, no return to fill in for Miss Tyler!

Again, I was operating on the admittedly quite optimistic assumption, provided by Jim Steele, that she'd be making six pounds per hour (or about $8.88 in today's US dollars). I agree that she'd probably be making quite a bit less.
 
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