I need to re-read Mixed-Up Files. I read it in elementary school and loved it.
“Made for teenagers?”
- Thread starter hxclespaulplayer
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I need to re-read Mixed-Up Files. I read it in elementary school and loved it.
Lower Decks makes way, way, waaaaayyyyyyy too many references to TOS-ENT and depends on them way too much as the punchlines of jokes for it to have a target audience under 30. It assumes you already know all about these shows going in. Not a bad thing, but I doubt most teens are actively going to seek those shows out, unless their parents got them into it.
Gearing a show squarely at teenagers isn't something that can really be done by anyone over 30, I might even say 25, IMO. It has to be kids and teens or teens and adults. Just teens is tricky, if you're not one of them or only just a little bit older. You'd have to be one of those very few Cool Adults who actually "gets it". I don't know if that's really Mike McMahan. He's more like the Trekkie who "gets it". A certain type of Trekkie, at least.
So when they say Lower Decks is intended to be an adult cartoon, I think they're right.
Gearing a show squarely at teenagers isn't something that can really be done by anyone over 30, I might even say 25, IMO. It has to be kids and teens or teens and adults. Just teens is tricky, if you're not one of them or only just a little bit older. You'd have to be one of those very few Cool Adults who actually "gets it". I don't know if that's really Mike McMahan. He's more like the Trekkie who "gets it". A certain type of Trekkie, at least.
So when they say Lower Decks is intended to be an adult cartoon, I think they're right.
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I think it's an adult cartoon that is front loaded to appeal specifically to hardcore Star Trek fans. I love it, but I think it's a terrible gateway show. Definitely aimed at those of us who are dyed in the wool. 50% of the gags would go straight over the head of someone who isn't a long term Star Trek fan.
I think it's aimed at anyone aged between 10-100 who just love Star Trek.
I mentioned earlier on the thread, I have an 18 year old niece and 13 year old nephew that have become huge Trek fans in large part *because* of Lower Decks.
Their Trek knowledge and experience was fairly minimal until LD, but after getting into LD they both watch new Trek regularly and are getting caught up on the classics, and my nephew is (virus conditions allowing) going to come to the Mission Chicago convention in April with me, and wears a Starfleet delta badge every day on his hoodie.
I don’t think the references are really the barrier of entry that one might think, because there are plenty of jokes, and character development, that are just from the writing and acting, and fast paced, wacky scifi adult cartoons are just a big thing.
Hell, I know that probably 90% of the references The Simpsons made when I was a kid went over my head the first few seasons, but it didn’t stop those early years from being something I loved, and remember to this day.
In addition to the clear Trekkie audience, I think LD has a lot of appeal to a casual viewer of animated shows like Futuruma, Rick & Morty, Solar Opposites, or Final Space.
Their Trek knowledge and experience was fairly minimal until LD, but after getting into LD they both watch new Trek regularly and are getting caught up on the classics, and my nephew is (virus conditions allowing) going to come to the Mission Chicago convention in April with me, and wears a Starfleet delta badge every day on his hoodie.
I don’t think the references are really the barrier of entry that one might think, because there are plenty of jokes, and character development, that are just from the writing and acting, and fast paced, wacky scifi adult cartoons are just a big thing.
Hell, I know that probably 90% of the references The Simpsons made when I was a kid went over my head the first few seasons, but it didn’t stop those early years from being something I loved, and remember to this day.
In addition to the clear Trekkie audience, I think LD has a lot of appeal to a casual viewer of animated shows like Futuruma, Rick & Morty, Solar Opposites, or Final Space.
That's very good to hear and it looks like I was wrong about it not serving well as a gateway show. I suppose the characters do have a sense of anarchy to them that isn't present in other Star Trek. Kind of like 'The Young Ones' in space.
That's very good to hear and it looks like I was wrong about it not serving well as a gateway show. I suppose the characters do have a sense of anarchy to them that isn't present in other Star Trek. Kind of like 'The Young Ones' in space.
Thanks! I think they have to credit their crossover appeal as much to the sharpness of the writers (the stories have an almost Seinfeldian way of interconnecting sometimes that is a perfect blend of TNG formula episodes and sitcom set ups), and the talent of the actors.
The four leads, and the supporting actors of the main crew, are all so good, and they have made me care about all of the characters in this very silly, very goofy show. I appreciate the skill that takes from everyone involved.
There was a show in the late-'80s that I used to watch as a kid called D.C. Follies. It was a political satire using puppets. Virtually all of it went over my head, in retrospect, but I remember still thinking it was funny.
I remember that show, I was frightened by the puppets
I vaguely remember the Reagan puppet. I was super freaked out by the puppets made by the same people for the music video for the Genesis song Land of Confusion.
In the UK we had a show called Spitting Image. Much the same kind of political puppetry. I didn't have a Scooby-Doo what it was all about as a kid, but I liked it.
D.C. Follies was in fact the US adaptation of Spitting Image. It was adapted into region specific shows in 40 different markets/nations. It was a phenomenon back then!
That is so awesome!
Are the references all that important though?
Do you really need to know the Salt Vampire episode to get that Ransom is getting attacked by his date?
Do you really need to know what Mariner references on her "conspiracy map" to get that she's over-acting?
Do you really need to know Threshold to laugh at the guy on the Barge who got turned into a salamander?
Do you really need to have seen the Return of the Archons to find that whole thing with Landru in the 1st season final hilarious?
Most of the jokes, imho, work on a surface level, knowing the references just ads a little bit to them.
^ I agree that there are these kind of jokes, that you can “get” even without understanding the Trek reference. But there also have been situations where I felt referencing some old thing was supposed to be the joke in and of itself. Like when they were arguing who was more badass, Khan or Roga Danar; which I imagine left some viewers scratching their head who they are talking about. (But then again, maybe that was the joke?) I feel like sometimes they just name something from an old TNG episode and consider it funny. Another example is when they reference the “outrageous” Okona as a DJ. I'd imagine most people would be really confused what or who they are talking about.
--Steve Martin
(The joke is, of course, that there's no joke, and that the whole bit is pure bovine scat, and it makes even less sense to a plumber than it does to anybody else. Although at least one plumber actually has welded together a conglomeration of mismatched parts, and called the result a "Langstrom 7-inch gangly wrench.")
To me, it's just like sports jokes. Some I will get and others I won't. If I am invested in the characters I'm less concerned about knowing all the references.^ I agree that there are these kind of jokes, that you can “get” even without understanding the Trek reference. But there also have been situations where I felt referencing some old thing was supposed to be the joke in and of itself. Like when they were arguing who was more badass, Khan or Roga Danar; which I imagine left some viewers scratching their head who they are talking about. (But then again, maybe that was the joke?) I feel like sometimes they just name something from an old TNG episode and consider it funny. Another example is when they reference the “outrageous” Okona as a DJ. I'd imagine most people would be really confused what or who they are talking about.
That’s a great example. I have no interest in following sports, but there have been sports stories on television and in film that I love. Familiarity with the subject matter surely provides another layer of enjoyment to the show Pitch, or the show Ted Lasso, but it isn’t required to get entertainment out of it.
I don't think the Outrageous Okana thing is a big deal. He looks like a DJ and that's his cool DJ name. I wouldn't think twice about it, even if I didn't know where it came from. I've seen stuff like that at actual parties and at bars and he'd fit right into those lineups.
The type of thing I was thinking about that's a pushing it a little bit too far is when Boimler or Mariner (I can't remember which) told the Ferengi "You're "The Last Outpost" type Ferengi! Ever heard of Quark?" To which I thought, "Really?"
The type of thing I was thinking about that's a pushing it a little bit too far is when Boimler or Mariner (I can't remember which) told the Ferengi "You're "The Last Outpost" type Ferengi! Ever heard of Quark?" To which I thought, "Really?"
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You have no idea how pleased I am to hear that!
Trivia time: the French adaptation, Les Guignols de l'Info lasted until 2018.
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