Garrett Wang

[Sumire]

The "somebody gotta be duh ensign" garbage was done to humiliate the actor and the character, and the only thing more infuriating than the showrunners doing it in the first place was that it had exactly the intended effect. I ing hate it when bullies get what they want.

Did they really admit to that? That they were purposefully humiliating the actor and the character? That’s awful. What a horrid thing to do.

 

[ReddishAlert]

I used to think it would have been neat if they had kept the Equinox and split the crew. Could have promoted Harry over there too :-)

 

[Oddish]

Did they really admit to that? That they were purposefully humiliating the actor and the character? That’s awful. What a horrid thing to do.

There's no way to prove it, but look at what we can prove.
* Every other ensign on any previous Trek moved on to a higher rank, save Wes, who was nonetheless promoted from acting ensign to full ensign (his showing up in that red uniform at the end of "Menage a Troi" is one of my favorite Trek moments to this day). Chekov, Ro, Ogawa, Nog, Ezri, Tom... they all ranked up.
* At the end of S6, Tom got promoted and Harry mentioned not finding a little box on his chair. On two occasions in S7, he was forced to defend that fact. I can't prove it, but it seems like viewers were complaining about the decision to promote Tom and not Harry. Rather than accommodate them, the powers that be doubled down hard on their decision. Clearly, keeping Harry at ensign was a big deal for them, even if it pissed the viewers off.

 

[Ragitsu]

I like to believe that - on occasion - Garrett Wang takes some time out of his day to read Oddish's posts while singing the US Pokémon theme song.

"...you're my best friend!..."

 

[Oddish]

I like to believe that - on occasion - Garrett Wang takes some time out of his day to read Oddish's posts while singing the US Pokémon theme song.

"...you're my best friend!..."

Staunch advocate, anyway.

Maybe Jennifer Lien does the same with @Lynx

 

[Lynx]

Staunch advocate, anyway.

Maybe Jennifer Lien does the same with @Lynx

Well, who knows!

 

[at Quark's]

Exactly. And what happens if and when Voyager gets home? Harry will probably wind up serving on a Federation garbage scow because no good assignment will want a 7-year ensign.

You can always have the bad luck of getting a stingy boss that refuses to acknowledge your performance. In ordinary situations you can simply leave that job and search for another, where your dedication is appreciated more. Harry had no other option (*) but that also means he can use that in his defense. (The number of promotions overall on the ship was extremely low, after all).

(*) Which makes me wonder. Suppose that Harry had said in S5 'That's it, enough is enough, I'm resigning my commission!' - what would Janeway have done with that?

 

[Oddish]

Which makes me wonder. Suppose that Harry had said in S5 'That's it, enough is enough, I'm resigning my commission!' - what would Janeway have done with that?

Wasn't much she could do. Her dilemma at Planet 37's was that on a larger scale. If people wanted out, she would have no choice but to let them. Of course, she could have told them that they would have to find their own ride home... that would be a powerful motivator.

However, since Janeway had cult leader level charisma, it only actually happened with Seska. Might have happened with Jonas as well, if he had been taken alive.

Also, it might surprise you, Ragitsu... Garrett Wang is actually in your camp. When asked about Harry's fate, he declared that he had resigned from Starfleet after they refused to promote him above ensign and created a cadet hangout called Admiral Kim's Bar and Grill. Starfleet personnel ranking ensign and below get a discount.

 

[at Quark's]

I meant to say, suppose Kim had said: 'I'm resigning from Starfleet, but I still want to get home, and you can't deny me that as you're the only Federation vessel in the quadrant and I'm a Federation citizen'.

Could he have stayed on as a civilian on board, like Kes? Or would Janeway have him 'drafted' similarly to how she drafted the Maquis in a sense? ('Like it or not, you can get out of Starfleet but you'll still do your duty on ops')

 

[Farscape One]

That's actually something that was never addressed, but it should have been.

Not doing it actually robbed Janeway of some tremendous character episodes, because whatever she came up with would have shown why the entire crew was so loyal to her.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That's actually something that was never addressed, but it should have been.

Not doing it actually robbed Janeway of some tremendous character episodes, because whatever she came up with would have shown why the entire crew was so loyal to her.

There was one conversation about Voyager being a generational ship.

Which means that mandatory Retirement would have put most of the crew out to pasture.

In the end, they were 4 years from rendezvousing with three Star Fleet Long range Vessels. (Voy Life Line)

So Kim had three more Captains to suck up to, or because of his age, if they missed those other ships, Kim being almost the youngest crewman on board, might have been the last Officer on board after EVERYONE other bugger retired... Although different species have different mandatory retirement ages, so Tuvok might bury Kim, if he side steps the space crazy.

 

[Oddish]

I meant to say, suppose Kim had said: 'I'm resigning from Starfleet, but I still want to get home, and you can't deny me that as you're the only Federation vessel in the quadrant and I'm a Federation citizen'.

Could he have stayed on as a civilian on board, like Kes? Or would Janeway have him 'drafted' similarly to how she drafted the Maquis in a sense? ('Like it or not, you can get out of Starfleet but you'll still do your duty on ops')

If nothing else, she could have given him a much less enjoyable ride: no replicator rations, no holodeck time. He eats Neelix's cooking, and he can toot on his clarinet and read whatever books on padd he's brought, not much else.

That's actually something that was never addressed, but it should have been.

Not doing it actually robbed Janeway of some tremendous character episodes, because whatever she came up with would have shown why the entire crew was so loyal to her.

You're right about that. It got hard to explain in places: no one staying on Planet 37's, no one standing up for Tuvix, no one just throwing her in the brig for her actions during "Equinox".

because of his age, if they missed those other ships, Kim being almost the youngest crewman on board, might have been the last Officer on board after EVERYONE other bugger retired... Although different species have different mandatory retirement ages, so Tuvok might bury Kim, if he side steps the space crazy.

Ens. Vorik would be the last officer, actually. He's Vulcan, but at least 70 years younger than Tuvok. So he'd at most be Tuvok's age (about 110) when Voyager got home, even if it hadn't taken any shortcuts.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ens. Vorik would be the last officer, actually. He's Vulcan, but at least 70 years younger than Tuvok. So he'd at most be Tuvok's age (about 110) when Voyager got home, even if it hadn't taken any shortcuts.

Next time he goes through Pon Far, they're going to let him die.

 

[Summer Solstice]

I meant to say, suppose Kim had said: 'I'm resigning from Starfleet, but I still want to get home, and you can't deny me that as you're the only Federation vessel in the quadrant and I'm a Federation citizen'.

Could he have stayed on as a civilian on board, like Kes? Or would Janeway have him 'drafted' similarly to how she drafted the Maquis in a sense? ('Like it or not, you can get out of Starfleet but you'll still do your duty on ops')

It's not a passenger ship. If Kim can do something that's useful while being a civilian, then fine, but if everyone wants to be a civilian then there's no one to run the ship.

There was one conversation about Voyager being a generational ship.

Which means that mandatory Retirement would have put most of the crew out to pasture.

In the end, they were 4 years from rendezvousing with three Star Fleet Long range Vessels. (Voy Life Line)

So Kim had three more Captains to suck up to, or because of his age, if they missed those other ships, Kim being almost the youngest crewman on board, might have been the last Officer on board after EVERYONE other bugger retired... Although different species have different mandatory retirement ages, so Tuvok might bury Kim, if he side steps the space crazy.

I don't think Tuvok would retire that much after Janeway and Chakotay - he's over 100 and humans live to 130 or more in the 24th century.

 

[DonIago]

I meant to say, suppose Kim had said: 'I'm resigning from Starfleet, but I still want to get home, and you can't deny me that as you're the only Federation vessel in the quadrant and I'm a Federation citizen'.

Could he have stayed on as a civilian on board, like Kes? Or would Janeway have him 'drafted' similarly to how she drafted the Maquis in a sense? ('Like it or not, you can get out of Starfleet but you'll still do your duty on ops')

I wondered about this some time ago...what if the people in "Learning Curve" or "Good Shepherd" had proved beyond Tuvok or Janeway's abilities to bring up to snuff? What if there's someone aboard who simply no longer wishes to perform their duties (perhaps because of undiagnosed depression)?

Would Janeway allow them to continue travelling aboard Voyager or is the ship pay-for-play? How long will Voyager stick around to make sure that the friendly aliens of the week they're dropping off dispirited crewmen with don't have an agenda?

It obviously becomes more of an issue if there's some sort of mass-resignation, but that's something that apparently wasn't even considered as a possibility by the senior officers.

 

[at Quark's]

It's not a passenger ship. If Kim can do something that's useful while being a civilian, then fine, but if everyone wants to be a civilian then there's no one to run the ship.

It's not, but I think Janeway couldn't refuse passage to Kim as easily as she could have refused Kes and Neelix. She was under no obligations to take them with her, but with Kim it could be a different story, because he's a Federation citizen, there aren't exactly many other options to travel back to the AQ, and moreover, he could argue that service to the ship and Janeway is what got him lost in the DQ in the first place.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's not a passenger ship. If Kim can do something that's useful while being a civilian, then fine, but if everyone wants to be a civilian then there's no one to run the ship.



I don't think Tuvok would retire that much after Janeway and Chakotay - he's over 100 and humans live to 130 or more in the 24th century.

Tuvok's brain has turned into porridge.

He'll be retiring or fired by 2380.

The crew was (figuratively) let go, in the 37s, but they all signed back up, including Lon Suder & Michael Jonas, because of the immense faith they had in the Captain .

 

[Oddish]

I don't think Tuvok would retire that much after Janeway and Chakotay - he's over 100 and humans live to 130 or more in the 24th century.

I see Janeway, Chakotay, and Tuvok alive after 70y... she'd be 109, he'd be 113 or so, and Tuvok would be 175. But they might have retired, leaving the running of the ship to the younger folks. Even Harry would be 91 or so.

It obviously becomes more of an issue if there's some sort of mass-resignation, but that's something that apparently wasn't even considered as a possibility by the senior officers.

Or a can of worms the writers didn't want to open.

 

[DonIago]

Or a can of worms the writers didn't want to open.

As with most of the implications of probably not getting home within the crew's lifetimes.

 

[fireproof78]

Would having a rank in the Delta quadrant really have done Harry any good?

Yes, even if in the actual hierarchy of Voyager it might have meant very little. One, it would acknowledge his time in grade and experience, setting him up for future promotions in Starfleet down the road. Two, it gives him the opportunity to demonstrate responsibility at higher grades. Yes, he is already a department head, but on a voyage such as Voyager's he should be prepared to take command and Janeway should be setting him up for success.

Finally, from a morale point of view it acknowledges that they will get home and Harry's career will continue. Saying "Well, you're an ensign because that's what you were when we got lost" effectively says, "You're stuck." That's a morale killer.