Spoilers Walking Dead Season 8 discussion and spoilers.

[137th Gebirg]

So season 8 starts this Sunday (Oct 22)!

How will Negan respond to the new 3-way alliance between Alexandria, Hilltop and The Kingdom? Will he actually need to change his underwear due to the tiger attack? He was caught very much off-balance, between that, Sasha's death/turning and popping out of the casket, and his realization that Maggie is not only alive and well, but in charge of Hilltop. What happened to that smarmy shitstain politician Gregory, anyway? Exiled or just stuck down in the basement peeling potatoes?

Negan cannot let this response go unanswered, lest he appear weak in the eyes of the Sanctuarians. He may start taking it out on poor old Eugene, as he clearly already has a suspicion that Eugene might have had a hand in Sasha's untimely death. Kudos to him for thinking quickly on his feet and coming up with the possible conclusion that she suffocated in the tightly-sealed coffin. I fear his days are numbered, though. If the Alliance wins and Eugene survives, will he be exiled or executed for "aiding and abetting the enemy in a time of war"? They were ready to blow him up at the gate before realizing the TNT was disarmed. I wonder...

And what about our dodgy trash people? What fate awaits for them? Will they be left alone by both sides or start operating as a third independent party, just sniping at anyone who comes near them, regardless of what banner they fly? They are about the oddest goddamn thing on this show. It's not been too long since the affliction, only a few years. How does an entire community like that develop in a landfill in such a relatively short amount of time and all start talking like fucking Yoda? I have not been able to wrap my head around that one since their introduction. Perhaps the graphic novels shed some light on Jadis and her brood? I've never read it so I have no idea.

Lucille is mighty thirsty...

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I'm planning on watching it, but man, I couldn't for the life of me get through last season. I only revisited the show at the finale to feel as if I hadn't missed a single thing. I'm hoping this premiere brings me back, though! I also gave up on Fear, even though I was the loudest apologist of that show to my friends when it first came on.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, S7 was a bit of a rough ride. A few things of note happened, particularly when it came to discovering new allies in the region (Hilltop, The Kingdom), and some not so much (Oceanside, Jadis' people) and the "Wolves" seemed to have simply dried up. I doubt they were absorbed by Sanctuary for being too feral, as I have yet to see a single one of Negan's people with a "W" branded on their forehead. But yes, aside from giving Negan and his crew a fairly respectable bloody nose, the power struggle remained fairly the same.

I'm actually a recent watcher of the show. My wife & I binge-watched the whole series up to the S7 finale in the past couple months. We haven't gotten into Fear yet, as we wanted to go back and watch all the other DVR'd shows that we've put on hold during that marathon! I have heard it simply isn't as good as the original, but I'll still give it its day in court. I hear they'll be doing a cross-over between Fear and Walking soon, possibly could be considered a sign of desperation due to fading interest.

Probably one of my biggest gripes in Walking is the fact that, having lived in Northern Virginia for a VERY long time (40 years, but not any more), Alexandria hasn't looked like it's being depicted in probably a half-a-century. It is a city, with Arlington to the north (a county which is actually a big urban center, formally a part of DC over a hundred years ago) and Springfield (another heavily industrialized city) to the west. I had a hard time reconciling where they are, and where they were doing things, particularly that big-ass quarry that they were leading that mass of walkers away from Alexandria. IIRC, there are no quarries of that size anywhere near there and most of their exploits look like they're taking place near the mountains out in western Loudoun County and out towards Winchester, up and down the I-81 corridor. None of it speaks "NoVA" to me and it sure as skippy ain't Alexandria! Despite the showrunners' best efforts, you cannot make Georgia suburbia look like Northen Virginia suburbia.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I was an avid, AVID lover of TWD right up until the Glenn/Abraha debacle. I don't usually feel like a show can wrong a viewer or I hold blame against creators for going in certain direction, but I honestly felt slighted as a viewer. As if the show was actually out to insult and disrespect me, as irrational an unreasonable as that sounds, and I haven't been able to get over that feeling since. The bits and pieces of s7 that I saw I just felt like, 'man they think they can do whatever they want to us and we'll just eat it up.' It was not a line of thinking I approved myself of having.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Heh, I actually remember hearing the fury over the Hershel incident during the Governor run, and how it was really supposed to be Tyreese (based on the graphic novel) who got the sword. I think by the time the Glenn/Abraham thing came around, and being an avid watcher/reader of Game of Thrones I was already somewhat prepared for the fact that no characters are 100% safe with plot armor in this show.

Ironically, not long before watching the Glenn/Abraham episode, I caught an encore presentation of the SNL episode with Dave Chappelle, when he was lamenting in his monologue about how bummed he was that Glenn bought the farm at Negan's hands in the "most recent episode" and he went on to doing a spoof of that scene with several of his best characters from "Chapelle Show". I was majorly bummed because, "shit, Spoiler Alert!" and laughing my ass off at the same time because it was really a funny bit. You had Rick James constantly yelling "WHAT?!?" You had the crackhead running around with his head in his arms after Negan knocks it off with Lucille - vintage Chapelle.

The Abraham bit in the beginning was actually more of a surprise to me, as I had thought Negan only took out one of them to make a point. It makes sense he would do Abraham, though. Clearly a rival alpha, looking him in the eye in pure, proud, unbridled defiance to the very end. Negan logically had to do him - he was the only immediately perceivable threat at the time other than Rick, whom Negan made every point of keeping alive to watch him break.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I think part of it was the way it was presented when you had to wait a week/summer to see what was going to happen. Ending the season without knowing who was killed, and then being presented with it the way it did the following season was a real jerk move. Especially the way the production was hyping up what was going to happen throughout the series. It totally felt like a GOTCHA! moment that I didn't appreciate. It was indeed polarizing.

Honestly, if they played out the exact same situation in which Abraham was killed, but gave that to us in the finale and saved Glenn for the following premiere I would have been completely okay with it. Instead it felt like they forced you to wait all summer for no reason, then say, 'okay well here you go it was Abraham LOL.' and then as you're hurting and thinking, well I guess they aren't going to kill Glenn after all, they come around and say, 'LOL we're killing Glenn too! OMG so shocking, you love us.'

I suppose if I were watching it in a binge situation, it wouldn't have felt as lame. I guess that's my fault for watching the series as it came out and be willing to read articles on the crew talking about what they're planning, haha. God forbid the fans of this series do things that fans like to do!

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yes there may be a valid psychological response between watching it from the beginning vs. binge-watching like we did. Hadn't thought of it that way before, but yes I can definitely see your point here. You have more vested far more real-time effort and interest drawn out during the full-run of the show over the years, whereas I got it all at once in a couple of months and perhaps the oversaturation of the binge lessened the blow for me, as it were. Interesting...

I will say that I cannot remember another time in my life where I've felt so emotionally exhausted after watching an hour of television like I did with the Glenn/Abraham ep. I honestly don't know if that's a good or bad thing. But boy-howdy did I need a drink after that one!

I've had a two-week break from it since we watched the S7 finale, so I'd like to think I'm rested and ready for more.

On a tangential note, I've been watching the new "Talking Dead" episodes that have been coming on, talking about the upcoming season, and I was kind of sad to hear that Jeffrey Dean Morgan has been getting really bad flack from fans ever since his introduction. He takes it in stride - very professional, and I personally consider it a testament to his portrayal of the Negan character, but FFS, do these people not get that JDM is NOT Negan IRL? Seriously, just another example of "True Fan™ Syndrome", IMO, with people running around possessing a very tentative grip on reality. He seems like a genuinely nice down-to-earth guy in the after-shows. Definitely someone I would like to know at a personal level, and some people flip him the bird and yell at him for "killing Abraham and Glenn". WTF?!?

Oh, well...Can't cure stupid, I guess.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Oh man, if only! LOL. But yeah, watching TWD really is emotionally draining. I think I binged seasons 1-3 to catch up, and that was a really, really hard three weeks on the soul. It was nice to be able to spread out that torment over a 6 month period later on! I think Hershel's end was the hardest death on me overall. That one struck right down to the bone.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, I miss old Hershel. He was kind of annoying in the beginning about how he still viewed the walkers as curable real people and put everyone including his own family in danger because of it. The bar scene seemed to be his turning point back to reality and I've loved him ever since.

The other thing they were joking about in Talking Dead, was "don't ever let your character become the group's moral compass. You're as good as dead when that happens!" As funny as that is, it does happen to be true, as they were saying that it appears that Morgan is moving into that realm and Lennie James is kind of nervous about that.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

That's funny. I'd probably also say, 'Don't have a redemption arc unless you're Rick' for the same reason!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The comics version of All Out War was engaging and exciting. The promos for Season 8 look boring as shit. I've given up on Fear the Walking Dead, and I'm on the verge of quitting The Walking Dead. I'll give Season 8 two or three episodes, but if it doesn't blow my socks off, or is bogged down by stupid shit and stupid decision making, I'm done.

 

[Red Shirt]

I watched seasons 1 through 5 of TWD on antenna broadcast t.v. The more graphic scenes were edited out unfortunately but I still enjoyed it. I found the find a safe place, regroup, then it goes to south, bug-out, rinse and repeat overly repetitious. With that said I do enjoy the post-apocalyptic genre so no complaints considering it was a free promotional airing up to the end of season 5.

 

[137th Gebirg]

The comics version of All Out War was engaging and exciting. The promos for Season 8 look boring as shit. I've given up on Fear the Walking Dead, and I'm on the verge of quitting The Walking Dead. I'll give Season 8 two or three episodes, but if it doesn't blow my socks off, or is bogged down by stupid shit and stupid decision making, I'm done.

Heh...the thing I noticed about the early episodes of S1 were the little things that made me feel like these were real people, thinking clear-headed about what they were doing and avoiding all the tired old clichéd horror tropes. Materials were scare, so you would always see Darryl recovering his crossbow bolts. Everyone was thinking about operational security, always posting guards, never going out alone, proper firearms training and avoiding cowboying around with the weapons, etc. The things they did early on made me feel like, "okay, these people actually know what they're doing and could be okay". Then all that started going out the window, some as early as S2 and 3. It hasn't ever gotten really stupid-bad, but it's definitely not as tight as it was in the beginning. After all, if everyone can conduct their business in an efficient and professional way, there would almost never be a situation where any one of those mistakes would have jeopardized the whole group, which would make for some seriously boring TV!

I'll keep watching, simply because I like the characters and want to see where they're going. I say they should just fuck the east coast and head west until they run into one of those billionaire bolt-holes that got converted from an old ICBM silo!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

^I love in the first couple of seasons, if they came across ANYBODY, Rick was ready to put a bullet in their head. Whether they were good or bad, armed or unarmed, Rick was ready to shoot them. Fast forward a few seasons, they run into some Mad Max rejects living in a junkyard, and Rick happily gives them a shit ton of weapons, no questions asked. Then, what happens? "Oh noes! They turned on us!!!"

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah. Never trust a bunch of people who live in a landfill and inexplicably talk like Yoda.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

So season 8 starts this Sunday (Oct 22)!

How will Negan respond to the new 3-way alliance between Alexandria, Hilltop and The Kingdom? Will he actually need to change his underwear due to the tiger attack? He was caught very much off-balance, between that, Sasha's death/turning and popping out of the casket, and his realization that Maggie is not only alive and well, but in charge of Hilltop.

Negan probably has more allies than we've been exposed to--it cannot just be the Scavengers and no one else, otherwise, the idea of the Saviors being the local tyrants for so long would not stand up to even a moment of scrutiny.

What happened to that smarmy shitstain politician Gregory, anyway? Exiled or just stuck down in the basement peeling potatoes?

Gregory is far from finished being the weasel, and I'm guessing before he's through, someone will suffer for his backstabbing ways...but I stll do not see him getting his own hands dirty despite the tease of hi walking up behind Maggie with knife back in S7.

Negan cannot let this response go unanswered, lest he appear weak in the eyes of the Sanctuarians. He may start taking it out on poor old Eugene, as he clearly already has a suspicion that Eugene might have had a hand in Sasha's untimely death. Kudos to him for thinking quickly on his feet and coming up with the possible conclusion that she suffocated in the tightly-sealed coffin.

Clearly, Negan is suspicious; he might believe Eugene is a coward in how quickly he referred to himself as "Negan," but connections to his friends--his past are not broken overnight. I imagine he will force Eugene to engage in so-called loyalty tests to prove his dedication. Such a test could use Father Gabriel as the subject (since the teasers already show Father Gabriel as a prisoner of Negan).

I fear his days are numbered, though. If the Alliance wins and Eugene survives, will he be exiled or executed for "aiding and abetting the enemy in a time of war"? They were ready to blow him up at the gate before realizing the TNT was disarmed. I wonder...

Despite Rosita being a complete asshole for a season and a half, she seemed like she was almost fighting back emotions when activating the detonator, so perhaps she might finally develop a soft spot, or feel Eugene is not completely lost.

And what about our dodgy trash people? What fate awaits for them? Will they be left alone by both sides or start operating as a third independent party, just sniping at anyone who comes near them, regardless of what banner they fly? They are about the oddest goddamn thing on this show. It's not been too long since the affliction, only a few years. How does an entire community like that develop in a landfill in such a relatively short amount of time and all start talking like fucking Yoda?

The altered speech pattern has been a nagging, if not annoying issue for audiences since their debut. Some believe they are a pack of rubber room types, while others believe they adopted the form of speaking as a form of shorthand to have an edge over others (enemies). Who knows, but the best guess would be they were suffering from something before the zombie apocalypse.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The Walking Dead - season 8, episode 100--
"Mercy"

Rick visiting the graves of what we remember to be that of Glenn & Abraham could be fresh graves, considering the time jumping this episode employs.

Interesting that Carl--usually the "kill or be killed" type for the past few seasons--is now more sympathetic to strangers than Rick, though its understandable to be suspicious of potential Saviors.

About that time jump: in the "present time," (not referring to future "old man Rick" period) Judith seems so much older than her previous appearance, begging the question of how much time has passed since the season 7 finale.

Eric tells Aaron that he's starting to pray ("Better late than never."). Good moment.

Simon pushing Gregory down the steps. Well, that was deserved.

Gavin: a potential dark horse, as hinted in season 7.

Rick promising to be the one to kill Negan just has "Not so fast" all over it, no matter when Negan is captured, beat down, or whatever.

The explosion/shootout/walker herd attack was an effective opening assault, but it seemed to make the Saviors appear to be weaker than advertised for the past two seasons. I'm sure this is showrunner misdirection--holding back their true numbers until a few episodes in, but the point remains that the Big Bad does not appear to be all so bad.

Ahh, so its during this assault that Father Gabriel (in pulling Rick back & trying to save the worthless, car-stealing Gregory) is captured. Terrible. Well, the producers promised season 8 would "up" the darkness and character loss. I imagine it begins here.

Rick referring to "mercy" in the Christian sense (whenever this moment occurs) is a big move for a character that often ping ponged with his faith.

Finally, the big question is where are the Scavengers? Pollyanna (Jadis) McIntosh was credited as a guest star, but I cannot recall seeing Jadis anywhere in the episode.

Solid start to the season, with a good mix of starting the war and a hint of the tragedy to come (not only for Gabriel, but teary-eyed Rick in whatever point in time he was red-eyed).

 

[auntiehill]

Very good start, indeed. I'm really looking forward to this season.

Glad to see the team back together and in good fighting form.

Oh, and nice shout out to Weird Al!

 

[Aragorn]

Finally, the big question is where are the Scavengers? Pollyanna (Jadis) McIntosh was credited as a guest star, but I cannot recall seeing Jadis anywhere in the episode.

They've always credited actors who weren't even in the episode. I think it's like BSG where there are "regulars" who aren't in the opening credits. Or maybe they have to pay them every episode just to keep them around.

 

[FPAlpha]

I think part of it was the way it was presented when you had to wait a week/summer to see what was going to happen. Ending the season without knowing who was killed, and then being presented with it the way it did the following season was a real jerk move. Especially the way the production was hyping up what was going to happen throughout the series. It totally felt like a GOTCHA! moment that I didn't appreciate. It was indeed polarizing.

Honestly, if they played out the exact same situation in which Abraham was killed, but gave that to us in the finale and saved Glenn for the following premiere I would have been completely okay with it. Instead it felt like they forced you to wait all summer for no reason, then say, 'okay well here you go it was Abraham LOL.' and then as you're hurting and thinking, well I guess they aren't going to kill Glenn after all, they come around and say, 'LOL we're killing Glenn too! OMG so shocking, you love us.'

I suppose if I were watching it in a binge situation, it wouldn't have felt as lame. I guess that's my fault for watching the series as it came out and be willing to read articles on the crew talking about what they're planning, haha. God forbid the fans of this series do things that fans like to do!

I understand where you're coming from but i wonder if you dislike the concept of cliffhangers in general?

I understand that cliffhangers are a staple for soap operas for decades but the first one that mattered to me was back then in the original run of Star Trek Next Generation in season 3 with Best of Both Worlds (yes, i am that old ) My buddy and me nearly fell out of our chairs when we saw it and it was a discussion topic for the entire summer. We were also on a complete news embargo since back then there was no internet or Youtube where new pieces of information were posted instantly.
There was no possibilty for a Game of Thrones /Jon Snow was killed type of leak when the actor was spotted on Game of Thrones sets after his character was supposed to be dead.

Anyway.. personally i liked the cliffhanger and the suspense and had built my own theories on who would be killed. Glenn was a strong candidate since he was also killed in the comics in the same way and in the same situation and i thought it would have been a ballsy move on the side of the producers to follow the comics because Glenn / Steven Yeun was a fan favorite character (myself included) and it would have been one hell of a blow to fandom and the show to lose him.

So when the waiting was finally over and they killed off Abraham (not as much of a fan favorite but still a cool character and actor) i thought they played it safe like so many other shows who would put main characters on the chopping block in a season cliffhanger only to have them resuced at the last second when the show resumed airing.

So i liked what they did as brutal and heart wrenching as it was because it raised the stakes considerably and introduced or solidified Negan as one of the top villains of the show (if not the best) and while it was unlikely they'd kill off any more of the core group that season you couldn't be sure and that led to an interesting experience during the show.

I wonder now why you would be ok if they killed off Abraham in the season finale and in the season premiere performed the twist and killed Glenn.. why does it matter if there were a few months in between? The result is the same and the shock would be the same. Sure i would have liked for Glenn to survive and continue his story with Maggie and i was pissed and sad at the same time for a while but this elevated Negan to become truly entertaining to watch as he kept the viewers on their toes all the time (this is why i love to watch Walking Dead reaction videos and it seems people are really invested in it because if this. When Glenn was killed there were several mental breakdowns and buckets of tears to be shed.. look around for any other show that is capable of doing that with its viewers).

I'd also disagree that it would be a good thing to do what the fans would like, if they did that they'd kill off an inconsequential supporting character (like Abraham), people would discuss it for a week or two and then settle into the new season and watch it all play out back and forth. This way everytime someone pissed off Negan or gave him lip you didn't know what would happen and that was exciting (at least to me). Otherwise the show would lose appeal fast if you knew that main characters would be safe from everything which would reduce the show to the hundreds of others that put the main characters in jeopardy yet pull them out time and time again.

This is also one of the main reasons why Game of Thrones is so popular. people lost it when Sean Bean was beheaded in the first season and really lost it when the Red Wedding happened.. nobody liked to see Bean die (again ) and the other Starks were also very well liked as they were the beacons of good in a show that was full of shady or downright evil characters.