"Basics" implausibilities

[CatAteMyTribble]

I'm talking about the 2-parter where Seska gives birth to the baby she claims is Chakotay's. Voyager receives a brief transmission from her saying the child's life is in danger because Cullah was furious when he found out it wasn't his. They go after it, and Cullah, Seska, and their band of merry men take over Voyager.

The problem with this is that Seska wasn't stupid. Her strategy wasn't always the best, but she wasn't stupid. I never for a second believed that she was so stupid as to either a) not expect Cullah to react violently upon learning she'd lied about the baby being his, or b) stake her life on the expectation of passing a half-human baby off as half-Kazon. More to the point, I don't see how any of Voyager's senior staff could have believed Seska was stupid enough to do either.

Chakotay can be forgiven for having a bit of a blind spot, but it should have been obvious to everyone else that it was a trap, because there's simply no way Seska would have allowed those events to unfold the way they supposedly did. She wouldn't have lied to Cullah for nine months, then blindly hoped nothing bad would happen when the kid popped out looking entirely non-Kazon. She'd have had a better plan at the outset, or she wouldn't have done it.

The discussion shouldn't have been "Is it a trap?" It should have been "It's obviously a trap. Now what should we do about it?" They could still have made the decision to go after the baby they thought was Chakotay's (though their grounds for taking it from its mother would have been questionable if they didn't think it was in danger), and events still could have unfolded the same way, but the crew would have looked a bit less inept.

And on that note, how did they not notice that the self-destruct system had been disabled until they tried to use it? Did no one ever, at any point, bother listing all systems damaged by the supposedly-unaligned Kazons' suspiciously identical attacks on the starboard ventral? Did no one ever look through that list trying to figure out whether any of the systems on it might have been worth targeting? Did 'self-destruct' not jump out as being more strategically important than whatever other "minor" systems were on that list?

It's still an enjoyable episode to watch, if you don't think too carefully about all the implausibilities. I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on these points!

 

[hux]

They knew it was a trap and thought they'd done enough to prepare for that but obviously not.

You know how in Course: Oblivion, duplicate Paris starts mumbling under his breath about useless Janeway. Well that's probably what everyone was doing as soon as Seska dropped them off on that planet.

 

[stardream]

First time I watched it my reaction was "Run! Run away and never look back!" or simply call her bluff. The actions scenes were fun to watch but yes, story line was completely implausible.


Season 2 was pretty much a Chakotay Season. No wonder he grumbled about the show later on. He missed his 'glory' days.

 

[Catarina]

She knew. "Do you think Seska is capable of manipulating you and me with this? Oh, yes." another line, "That's something else Seska would know." Chakotay in alarm but she clearly wanted to take the risk. Which I kind of wanted her to elaborate on why this child was important. Perhaps, She wanted to play house with Chakotay. kidding about that last part.

Seska was staging from the beginning. Cullah didn't attack her for real. She lied to him that she was violated by Chakotay.

Yeah, even the cast (Actors) caught that stupid ploy to get them on the planet. The shooting at the secondary processors. So that was annoying.
I would have liked a line in the episode as well where Chakotay, rather than making 'indian' references, would have jabbed at her for wanting to leave New Earth so bad.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Did anyone else think that having the baby look so obviously* like a Cardassian/Native American human hybrid and then say "No he actually is a Cardassian/Kazon hybrid", was a bit of a cop-out? Seska even says when the Dr. tells her the child isn't Chakotay's son, "But he looks just like...".

*I thought the baby they cast looked Native American or Hispanic.

 

[Catarina]

of course. I think it was a cop out or some writer thought, "Hey, let's trick the audience!"

 

[Tracy Trek]

I wondered at the time if someone thought it wouldn't be a good idea to have 2 infants on the show at the same time. Little Naomi would have had someone to grow up with though.

 

[Catarina]

Tracy> You're probably correct.
Personally? I think it would have been fantastic! Real meaty shows for Chakotay and crew. Let's face it, it shows what adaptations need to be made being far away. Adds to the intrigue of the show.

 

[Anwar]

The baby was supposed to have been Chakotay's, but when Mike Piller left and Jeri Taylor took over she wanted all continuing plots terminated. So they killed Seska, had the baby be Cullah's, killed off Suder and had the Kazon simply back off from further assaults.

 

[stardream]

The baby was supposed to have been Chakotay's, but when Mike Piller left and Jeri Taylor took over she wanted all continuing plots terminated. So they killed Seska, had the baby be Cullah's, killed off Suder and had the Kazon simply back off from further assaults.

How weird would that be if that had happened.

At least it would have given Chakotay something to do in later seasons.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I also speculated at the time, maybe the Dr. lied about it for some reason (if that's even possible since he's an artificial life form). But then I thought what purpose would it have served, unless to gain a tactical advantage.

Edit: I just recalled the Dr. could and did lie. He lied to Seska in this episode. He told her he was responsible for whatever Suder was doing so she wouldn't find Suder.

 

[CatAteMyTribble]

I'll have to rewatch it, but as I recall, they knew it might be a trap. However, I think the decision was made based on the belief that it might not be (which was obviously ridiculous). I know Seska faked the whole thing, but even with the information the crew had at the time, it should have been obvious that she was doing so. For the video to be true, Seska would've had to either expect Cullah to be cool with being lied to about paternity, or expect him to be too dumb to notice that the baby wasn't part-Kazon. He's no intellectual giant (see "Maneuvers," where he spends much of the episode trying to get Chakotay's command codes that would have been changed or disabled the instant he was discovered to be AWOL), but there's no way Seska would have planned on either of those things. There's no way the senior staff would have believed she did.

What I'd have liked to see is a situation where the baby was Chakotay's, but because it wasn't in any real danger, Janeway decides there's no grounds to take it from its mother. That would mean Seska had to live, but she was one of the better villains, so that would have been ok.

If they really cared that much about the baby, and were willing to effectively kidnap it, there was no reason to wait until it was born. They had plenty of chances to capture Seska before that, and plenty of legal grounds to hold her. Just beam her over the same way they got the majes in "Maneuvers," let her chill out in the brig for a few months, then when the child is born, keep it and either send her on her way or leave her in the brig. Presumably, they'd have figured out early on that it wasn't Chakotay's, and it would've saved them a lot of trouble. But then we wouldn't have gotten to see Hogan get eaten by a giant snake.

And about that... there's a pile of human-looking bones at the mouth of a giant cave, and it never occurs to anyone that maybe that's not the best place to hang out? You'd think Starfleet survival training would include something like, "When you come across a dead humanoid, put a few seconds' thought into what might have killed it, and try to avoid the same fate." Common sense would suggest giving that area a wide berth.

 

[Catarina]

I initially thought the doctor had lied to seska also until the reveal of his personal log. Bummer.

Oh my gosh, don't get me started on the death of Hogan. :angry:

 

[Timo]

And on that note, how did they not notice that the self-destruct system had been disabled until they tried to use it? Did no one ever, at any point, bother listing all systems damaged by the supposedly-unaligned Kazons' suspiciously identical attacks on the starboard ventral? Did no one ever look through that list trying to figure out whether any of the systems on it might have been worth targeting? Did 'self-destruct' not jump out as being more strategically important than whatever other "minor" systems were on that list?

That's the whole point, really. Nothing important was disabled by those initial attacks - but they prepared the ground for important things being disabled in the final attack. It sounds quite plausible that Seska could out-think the heroes on this one, as it takes a devious mind to dream up the cascade of events leading to this outcome, and Seska knows the outcome but the heroes do not.

As for the baby thing, there's that whole level of implausibility there as pointed out by Tracy Trek: babies in Trek just don't look distinct enough that Cullah could tell by eyeballing only... If he did find out, this would be through medical technology, and this in turn wouldn't have to wait until birth.

But that's a two-edged sword, as by the rules of Trek hybridization, Seska theoretically could have assumed the hybrid not to be identifiable as anything beyond "Cardassian/X", even later in life.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS KG5]

Seska did play a blinder to be fair. After all remember despite the odds Voyager was winning the battle with the Kazon until their trojan horse went off. Without that one aspect, Janeway would likely have crippled all the attacking ships, sufficiently at least to escape.

As Riker said, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you!

 

[Drone]

I'll have to rewatch it, but as I recall, they knew it might be a trap. However, I think the decision was made based on the belief that it might not be (which was obviously ridiculous). I know Seska faked the whole thing, but even with the information the crew had at the time, it should have been obvious that she was doing so. For the video to be true, Seska would've had to either expect Cullah to be cool with being lied to about paternity, or expect him to be too dumb to notice that the baby wasn't part-Kazon. He's no intellectual giant (see "Maneuvers," where he spends much of the episode trying to get Chakotay's command codes that would have been changed or disabled the instant he was discovered to be AWOL), but there's no way Seska would have planned on either of those things. There's no way the senior staff would have believed she did.

What I'd have liked to see is a situation where the baby was Chakotay's, but because it wasn't in any real danger, Janeway decides there's no grounds to take it from its mother. That would mean Seska had to live, but she was one of the better villains, so that would have been ok.

If they really cared that much about the baby, and were willing to effectively kidnap it, there was no reason to wait until it was born. They had plenty of chances to capture Seska before that, and plenty of legal grounds to hold her. Just beam her over the same way they got the majes in "Maneuvers," let her chill out in the brig for a few months, then when the child is born, keep it and either send her on her way or leave her in the brig. Presumably, they'd have figured out early on that it wasn't Chakotay's, and it would've saved them a lot of trouble

I think it's plausible that Seska believed it didn't matter that the baby was Chakotay's, as she believed. Despite the Kazon's regard for females, alien or not, she knew that she had made Cullah completely dependent on her to fulfill his aspirations as well as being emotionally caught up by her lures. I don' think that his reaction to her death was an indication that he realized his plans were shot. He's not adept enough in concealing his feelings. I think it was a genuine sign of grief that someone he was integrally commited to was now gone. The fact that he relied so heavily on her cleverness, guile, and smarts was indicated in the next moment when he reflexively waved the white flag without even knowing whether the tactical situation aboard ship, still might have favored an attempt to repel the boarders.

Your idea of Voyager capturing Seska to insure that they were able to secure the baby in their hands, wouldn't have even required waiting for any interval until the actual birth. Though, the natal transport that was illustrated with Naomi, may have only been advisable technologically when a baby is in the process of being born, not a significant time before when important aspect of its primary development were still occurring.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

It seems to me that Seska was happy to be pregnant and later, loved her child - even if she used her little boy to attract Chakotay in a trap -. No matter who was the father, she would never have hurt or let anyone harm him.
Even if Chakotay had been the father and seeing that the child wasn't in danger with his mother, even if the situation wasn't ideal, I don't see how and why Janerway would have kidnapped and brought him on the Voyager. It would have been certainly illegal and she would have refused, whatsoever Chakotay's protests. At least, I would hope for it!
I recognize however, that it would have been nice to have ther births on board. It's quite surprising that in 7 years, there was none. (Miral Paris was born at the end of very last episode. So, it does not count). So, or the crew was very wise or the Doctor intervened to prevent the pregnancies (including forJaneway -> cf to her relationship with Jaffen).

 

[Lynx]

The baby was supposed to have been Chakotay's, but when Mike Piller left and Jeri Taylor took over she wanted all continuing plots terminated. So they killed Seska, had the baby be Cullah's, killed off Suder and had the Kazon simply back off from further assaults.

It would have been better if Piller had stayed and Taylor had left. Things took a turn to the worse with her as one of those in charge.

Honestly, I've never really liked her as a writer and not as an author of the Voyager books either. I can enjoy reading "Pathways" and especially "Mosaic" but there are certain things in her description of the characters and their background stories that doesn't fit and seem downright ridiculous.

As for "Basics", it's one of my favorite episodes and Season 2 of Voyager is my favorite Star Trek season.

As for both Janeway and Chakotay, I think they suspected that it was a trap and that Seska was lying. But for some strange reason they wasn't really sure and therefore they took the risk of flying into a Kazon trap.

As for Seska, I'm not sure. She did seem very surprised when The Doctor told her that Chakotay wasn't the father. Maybe she knew deep inside but had some hope that Chakotay really would be the father. For some reason she did seem to have an affection for Chakotay.

If I had been Chakotay, I would have suspected a trap and never bothered to chase after Seska and the baby.

If I had been Janeway or "the one in charge", I would simply have said NO! I wouldn't have risked the ship and the crew for that mission.

Supreme Commander Novak wouldn't had done it either. That's why his smaller, lesser armed Maquis ship managed to fly through a large area of the Delta Quadrant with lesser damage to the ship and lesser casualties among the crew on board his Maquis ship than Voyager did.