Why Wouldn't Data Tell Soong About Lal?

[Mojochi]

I tend to think this is one of the biggest missed opportunities in the Data arc. Soong even mentions to Data about his hope that he might follow in his footsteps as a cyberneticist. However, Data never mentions to him about his one great attempt at a continuation of his work... Lal

I suppose it's possible he didn't want to admit doing so because it proved unsuccessful & tragic, but I'm pretty sure the guy not only would've wanted to know, but could've probably given some MAJOR insight, even if he only had a short time left to live. Kind of tragic as well, that the guy never learned that Data had created his own sentient android, likely less than a year before they came across each other. Presumably, Data is even still housing Lal's programming in himself, in that final encounter.

He didn't seem to have a problem telling Julianna, years later

 

[2takesfrakes]

Data might've been wary of informing Dr. Soong about Lal, out of respect. Data may also not have wanted Soong to school him on the subject and assigning him to continue making more. Data's relationship with Soong was similar to a father and son, by the same token, the reality of the situation was not lost on them, either. Data was the creation and he approached Soong as that. For Data to reveal that he's been trying to whip up androids is almost like claiming some form of equality with The Creator - that was too far a walk for Data. He simply could not perceive their relationship that way. When Data approached Soong, he knew his place.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You don't think Soong might have wanted grandchildren?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Data would've been acutely aware of Dr. Soong's desire for "grandchildren." And yet, Soong certainly wasn't invited, or included in designing Lal, internally, or otherwise. He may well have resented knowing of the exclusion, after the fact. It's an interesting question to ask, "why - InUniverse - would Data have kept Soong ignorant about Lal." I'm curious, all the same ...

 

[locutus101]

Data when speaking to Soong seems rather passive. He only talks about the things he's asked about. Soong never got around to ask him about his attempts in cybernetics. That's the most likely explanation, IMO.

 

[Mojochi]

It sure would seem like an opening though, when Soong hints about Data's choice to go into Starfleet, instead of following in his footsteps. Data may be socially blockheaded at times, but even he would likely pick up on such a heavy handed comment. Obviously, the real world explanation is probably just that the writers hadn't really thought of it when penning the script, but in-universe, you're left having to wonder about it, & imho, there's really only a couple ways to look at it now.

#1, in his own way, Data is ashamed to have been proved a failure at cybernetics, & still regrets that a sentient being had to lose its life, because of his inadequate trial. Perhaps not the kind of thing you admit to the messiah of cybernetics, which leads to possibility #2. Data is somewhat wary or intimidated by Soong, who is something of a stranger to him in their final meeting. He doesn't quite know what to make of Soong & his still being alive. Couple that confusion & ambivalence with the fact that Lore made a mess of things in very short order, & basically Data never had time to warm up to him enough to discuss it. All this, I do recognize makes a large assumption of some level of emotion going on in Data, which I'm not afraid to suggest. lol

 

[Finn]

Data would've been acutely aware of Dr. Soong's desire for "grandchildren."

What? How so? Did Juliana tell Data about how they talked about having babies and how they would decorate the nursery on Omicron Theta in the novels?

 

[2takesfrakes]

During Data's "trial" in "Measure of a Man," one of the criteria for Life ― a most important one ― which Picard (conveniently) neglects to mention is that Life reproduces itself. Do metal, plastic and carbon composites feel the urge to reproduce? No! So, if Data were to be considered a true lifeform, this criteria for defining Life would have to be met through his programming. Its source: Dr. Soong.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

All this, I do recognize makes a large assumption of some level of emotion going on in Data, which I'm not afraid to suggest. lol

Me neither. Concurrently, perhaps Data was still processing his grief over Lal's death and didn't want to reopen an old wound by mentioning her again so soon.

 

[Mojochi]

I've never really been clear on what of Lal is actually stored in Data. Is she in fact in there with him, or just the programming data? What would be the point of saving anything of her at all, unless there is some hope of transferring it into a stable android some day, thus returning her to existence? And if that is indeed possible, could she not then also use Data as a vessel herself, on occasion?

Or is she in fact lost? in the same way Data feared would happen to himself during Maddox's experiments, reduced to the mere formless data of a life, without flavor or substance, as he put it, and the only reason he saved anything at all is because he wanted something of her for himself, because she "So enriched" his life.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Data's abilities are very pliant. As is his supposed lack of emotion and understanding of humour. There were occasions, throughout the series, where he cracked a joke - never anything hysterical, of course, but it indicated he had at least learned something. For example, this may have been in the "Imaginary Friend" episode, when Data's in Ten Forward, admiring the nebula with Guinan and he's expressing his lack of understanding how she can see figures and shapes of things in the cloud formations, with her imagination, the way any of us could. Then, as he walks away, he goes, ".... besides, it is clearly a bunny rabbit." And the scene's just buttoned up, we see Guinan throwing him a look and the show moves on.

When Data tells the Oil Slick Trashbag Monster that he should be destroyed, because of his evil ways, Brent's imparting his lines with some emotion, in the delivery. It's not just speaking softly, like he usually does. But at the end of the day, TNG stubbornly insists that Data feels nothing, understands little of Human behaviour and still has a very long way to go. With Lal, though, we're not sure at what point he started downloading her memories. If it was after the breakdown, then they're probably just files and nothing more. I doubt he started the transfer before it was "too late," because he was busy, we hope, with the business of saving her Life. But the capability's certainly there. To me, though, Data was never really played as a real android would exist, he's more of a metaphor, in that regard. So rigidly defining his thought processes isn't as easy as all that ...

 

[jgalley]

sadly it's all assumption on anyone trying to say's part. When the truth is it was just an example of Trek not remembering one episode or instance when convenient. Data didn't bring up Lal because the writers either didn't see that episode or know about it....OR....there was already enough going on that to bring up Lal would take up too much time or they'd have to have Soong brush it off, making it pointless to bring up in the first place.

 

[locutus101]

sadly it's all assumption on anyone trying to say's part. When the truth is it was just an example of Trek not remembering one episode or instance when convenient. Data didn't bring up Lal because the writers either didn't see that episode or know about it....OR....there was already enough going on that to bring up Lal would take up too much time or they'd have to have Soong brush it off, making it pointless to bring up in the first place.

We're looking for an in-universe explanation.

 

[TheSubCommander]

As I recall in Brothers, Data didn't really have much of a chance to talk about Lal: 1/3 of the episode is dedicated to Data taking over the Enterprise and heading to Soong's location. Then Lore shows up. Then Lore deactivates Data. Data is reactivated just in time to watch Soong die.

 

[locutus101]

As I recall in Brothers, Data didn't really have much of a chance to talk about Lal: 1/3 of the episode is dedicated to Data taking over the Enterprise and heading to Soong's location. Then Lore shows up. Then Lore deactivates Data. Data is reactivated just in time to watch Soong die.

That's the way I see it as well.

 

[Mojochi]

Yeah, It clearly was a limited time frame of interaction, but they went & made the point of bringing the subject up in their dialog, & then they skip onto the question of why he created him, & the "Antique things" metaphor, when clearly, Data already understands wanting to carry on his line. It's just one of the tougher things to reconcile for me