Why the hate towards "Rascals"?

[carcinoGeneticist]

When I first watched the TNG episode 'Rascals', I thought it was good. So, I was somewhat confused to see it called one one of the worst episodes of the show. I understand it's a bit of a silly concept, but if you can't handle ST episodes with silly concepts I have no clue whatsoever how you managed to sit through TOS without flying off the handle at every episode. I'm not trying to denounce people who are saying it's bad or anything, I'm genuinely curious why people think it's so bad.

 

[M'Sharak]

Yes, it's a silly episode, but I think there's some great stuff there. Most of it, in fact. Child Keiko is only OK, but the Ro, Guinan and Picard kids are perfect.

Also: Riker playing "bamboozle the Ferengi" while releasing the computer lockout is very well-played. If the writers didn't know about the "Iron Fist / glass jaw" scene from the WWII film Desperate Journey, they were definitely influenced by someone who'd seen it.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

I'll take RASCALS, QPID and CAPTAIN'S HOLIDAY over 90 percent of the ''serious'' episodes. I watched all three in honor of TREK's 50th anniversary.

 

[Tallguy]

Why? Because

but the Ro, Guinan and Picard kids are perfect.

This episode is a classic for this reason alone. And there are others.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

Yes, it's a silly episode, but I think there's some great stuff there. Most of it, in fact. Child Keiko is only OK, but the Ro, Guinan and Picard kids are perfect.

Also: Riker playing "bamboozle the Ferengi" while releasing the computer lockout is very well-played. If the writers didn't know about the "Iron Fist / glass jaw" scene from the WWII film Desperate Journey, they were definitely influenced by someone who'd seen it.

I agree completely. That's why I'm wondering about all the hate towards it. IMO it's unwarranted and the only reason I've ever seen anyone give for hating on it is 'it's dumb'. Not a valid reason whatsoever IMO, the silly episodes are some of the best, at least to me.

 

[Qonundrum]

The Ro/Guinan scenes excel, regardless of age, but...

1) how easily the ship is taken over
2) In general, the story's structure is weak and overly contrived since this is only the Federation Flagship and all...
3) the big plot problem of Ferengi stranding only the adults to the surface? The 20th century was capable of doing better scripting than that! (A little added dialogue to add some tension and threat to justify this, since you know there's no way there would be incidental music to improve on the episode was going to be used, would have helped. You know, sell the little buggers off somewhere. The script has Ferengi stating they used a science team as slaves and stated the adults would be mining a lethal substance, which was middling at most, even more so because the little tykes can dig and kids love to dig (right?), but as the episode transpired the distinction of adult vs kid is only there to facilitate the solution of letting the kids save the day.)

are all pretty awful and even sub-part by season one's "finding ourself" standards.

That said, seeing the clothes being oversized for the newly-transported kids was a plus. The acting by the kids is certainly decent... and the Ro/Guinan stuff was inspired. I'm amazed Riker wasn't on Risa being duped by the latest toy walking to him slinkily as what had happened time and time before (well, once, but sex has been used by "the enemy" when it comes to espionage countless times. Risa should be off limits rather than a frequent flyer club!)

Plus, why not, I chucked out of "You're my number one Dad!" Picard thinking on his feet.

There are readily worse stories, but most of those times they're not contriving situations so badly.

 

[Mojochi]

I just think some people have an allergic reaction to episodes that have to really push suspension of disbelief. This one catches about the same amount of criticism as Conundrum, because in that episode the level of capability needed to achieve the premise flies in the face of the level of ineptitude the perpetrators end up being played out with, such they they can both wipe the galaxy's most sophisticated android's memory, but also be so less advanced as to need a photon torpedo to end their war

And in Rascals, the level of ineptitude required to lose the ship to Ferengi, who we've seen become wildly less menacing over the seasons, flies in the face of what we've come to know of the ship & crew. There's a fine line to walk with it appearing all too convenient, which can turn some viewers off.

I've come to grips with it myself, because my perspective on the show (as I recently detailed in my own thread) sees things centering around the characters, & frankly both Conundrum & Rascals make up for their plot shortcomings by being tremendously entertaining character pieces.

Honestly, this episode actually had me liking even Alexander... & that, my friends is no small feat.

 

[Tallguy]

And in Rascals, the level of ineptitude required to lose the ship to Ferengi, who we've seen become wildly less menacing over the seasons, flies in the face of what we've come to know of the ship & crew. There's a fine line to walk with it appearing all too convenient, which can turn some viewers off.

Stealing the Enterprise isn't that hard, honestly. Half the time it's about to be destroyed by its own holodeck.

Everyone loves Starship Mine, right?

I guess I'm OK with a flimsy-ish premise as long as you make everything else right. And Rascals made everything else right.

this episode actually had me liking even Alexander... & that, my friends is no small feat.

RIGHT?

 

[aquova]

I think at its core, people just dislike the child actors. It's a silly premise with child actors who, in some scenes, are intentionally annoying, but annoying none the less. Personally I don't mind it, it's not my favorite episode but I don't find it particularly offensive.

 

[Mojochi]

Everyone loves Starship Mine, right?

Well, I actually loathe that sad sack finale fight scene lol, but the episode premise itself is predicated on a particularly vulnerable window of opportunity, that makes it more believable imho

 

[Tosk]

I think Rascals has a ridiculous premise, some clunky execution, and the ship takeover is woeful.

But it is fun and funny, which was clearly what they were going for.

 

[Oddish]

The Ro/Guinan scenes excel, regardless of age, but...

1) how easily the ship is taken over
2) In general, the story's structure is weak and overly contrived since this is only the Federation Flagship and all...
3) the big plot problem of Ferengi stranding only the adults to the surface? The 20th century was capable of doing better scripting than that! (A little added dialogue to add some tension and threat to justify this, since you know there's no way there would be incidental music to improve on the episode was going to be used, would have helped. You know, sell the little buggers off somewhere. The script has Ferengi stating they used a science team as slaves and stated the adults would be mining a lethal substance, which was middling at most, even more so because the little tykes can dig and kids love to dig (right?), but as the episode transpired the distinction of adult vs kid is only there to facilitate the solution of letting the kids save the day.)

are all pretty awful and even sub-part by season one's "finding ourself" standards.

That said, seeing the clothes being oversized for the newly-transported kids was a plus. The acting by the kids is certainly decent... and the Ro/Guinan stuff was inspired. I'm amazed Riker wasn't on Risa being duped by the latest toy walking to him slinkily as what had happened time and time before (well, once, but sex has been used by "the enemy" when it comes to espionage countless times. Risa should be off limits rather than a frequent flyer club!)

Plus, why not, I chucked out of "You're my number one Dad!" Picard thinking on his feet.

There are readily worse stories, but most of those times they're not contriving situations so badly.

4. Alexander. Nuff said.
5. Yet another way death is effectively beaten, and no one notices.
6. Awkward Miles/Keiko bit.
7. The Ferengi are unstoppable at first... then pathetically dupe-able.

Everyone loves Starship Mine, right?

I'd have loved it a lot more if it had been Worf.
And a two-parter.
And three times more terrorists.

 

[at Quark's]

I don't hate it, I just don't think it is an upper tier episode. In itself, it's a fun idea: what would you do if you suddenly found yourself back in the body of your 10-year-old self, and the people around you subconsciously started treating you that way, too, even though you knew you were still the same person?

The child actors do a decent job given their age, I think, even though I can see how people find them annoying.

I like some scenes, too, for example the 'number one dad' scene, and how Riker technobluffs the Ferengi.

It did miss a Starfleet court martial at the end though, dealing with the question how the supposedly finest crew of all of Starfleet on the flagship were so easily outsmarted by 2 Ferengi renegade crews in rustbuckets. But perhaps Picard & Co thought the entire situation was so embarassing that they wiped all logs and Starfleet never heard of it?

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

The Ro/Guinan scenes excel, regardless of age, but...

1) how easily the ship is taken over
2) In general, the story's structure is weak and overly contrived since this is only the Federation Flagship and all...
3) the big plot problem of Ferengi stranding only the adults to the surface? The 20th century was capable of doing better scripting than that! (A little added dialogue to add some tension and threat to justify this, since you know there's no way there would be incidental music to improve on the episode was going to be used, would have helped. You know, sell the little buggers off somewhere. The script has Ferengi stating they used a science team as slaves and stated the adults would be mining a lethal substance, which was middling at most, even more so because the little tykes can dig and kids love to dig (right?), but as the episode transpired the distinction of adult vs kid is only there to facilitate the solution of letting the kids save the day.)

are all pretty awful and even sub-part by season one's "finding ourself" standards.

That said, seeing the clothes being oversized for the newly-transported kids was a plus. The acting by the kids is certainly decent... and the Ro/Guinan stuff was inspired. I'm amazed Riker wasn't on Risa being duped by the latest toy walking to him slinkily as what had happened time and time before (well, once, but sex has been used by "the enemy" when it comes to espionage countless times. Risa should be off limits rather than a frequent flyer club!)

Plus, why not, I chucked out of "You're my number one Dad!" Picard thinking on his feet.

There are readily worse stories, but most of those times they're not contriving situations so badly.

I understand that. I still love the episode but I can see why others have problems with it now. Thanks for the insight, lol

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

I think Rascals has a ridiculous premise, some clunky execution, and the ship takeover is woeful.

But it is fun and funny, which was clearly what they were going for.

AGREED! Got some insight and yeahh, I see the issue. But it was a silly and fun episode, so I like it regardless of its somewhat subpar logistics.

 

[Qonundrum]

AGREED! Got some insight and yeahh, I see the issue. But it was a silly and fun episode, so I like it regardless of its somewhat subpar logistics.

Yeah, in the right mood it CAN be fun. But, as with many "fun" TOS episodes, this one isn't my cup of tea either. But the aforementioned good bits remain good nonetheless and it's easier (for me) to remember those "Rascals" good bits than many of the TOS ones.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Like most Trek, I watched this one once about 18-20 years ago, so I had little memory of it. This thread inspired me to crack it on.

It’s alright. Charming in places I suppose. Episodes like this live or die on the basis of the quality of their child actors and the four in this episode are… alright?

I think the girl who plays Guinan comes off best, with Keiko and Ro coming second and the worst being Picard… and even he’s not that bad.

It was all worth it for the ‘he’s my number one Dad moment).

Geordi noticed the molecular structure of the shuttle remains was decaying… did that get followed up on?

Regardless, it’s far from the worst. A but lightweight maybe, but charming enough.

 

[Tallguy]

the worst being Picard… and even he’s not that bad.

Odd. I thought he was outstanding. And I kind of lump this episode in with "Why I am pissed that Generations killed Rene."

Oh! The moment when Old Picard appears on the transporter and checks his hair?

How do people not love this episode?!?

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Odd. I thought he was outstanding. And I kind of lump this episode in with "Why I am pissed that Generations killed Rene."

Oh! The moment when Old Picard appears on the transporter and checks his hair?

How do people not love this episode?!?

Like I said, the worst of the bunch but still not bad. Not supposed to be ‘damning with faint praise’… maybe it’s just the British accent that makes him sound more stilted?

Miles getting weirded out by Keiko is a good moment too.

It was alright, and when I say that, I mean the better side of alright. 8/10 if I had to put a number on it.

Certainly not worthy of hate.

 

[Orphalesion]

I mean as already said the Guinan and Ro stuff was fun, as is Picard pretending to throw a tantrum. Other than that I think it was a mediocre episode.
I don't have too much problem suspending my disbelief, so it's not that, and, some problems with tone aside, I liked Genesis. But Rascals was just kinda boring.

QPID

The problem I have with QPID is the same I have with most Holodeck Episodes. When I watch Star Trek I want to see characters do science fictiony stuff in space, on a ship, on a planet etc.

I do not want to see the characters LARPing a shitty version of Robin Hood.