Wheel quandary....

[Warped9]

Nearly three years ago I inherited my father's car when he passed away. A 2004 Ford Crown Victoria LX in exceptional condition and with very low mileage. I was already well familiar with this car yet never really expected ever owning it. That and it is certainly not a car I ever envisioned buying for myself.

With that said once I took ownership I decided to make the car more my own while maintaining it in good condition. The very first thing I did was upgrade the wheels and tires from the standard 16in. wheels and 225/60 series tires to 17in. wheels with 235/55 series rubber. The difference in steering and handling was immediately apparent--something my father would have appreciated if he had ever thought of doing such an upgrade. I kept the original wheels for my winter tires as narrower tires are better for traction in snow.

The next upgrade was purely cosmetic as I replaced the original factory grille with a chomed honeycomb grille that looked more distinctive. It's essentially a police car grille thats been ghromed and looks a bit more muscle car in style. I also sought out and installed the actual CrownVic molded splashguards.

The following upgrades were much more significant. I beefed up the front stabilizer bar and added a slightly smaller one to the rear. The further improvement was dramatic as the car no longer rolled in corners or sweeping curves. In concert with the earlier wheel and tire upgrade the car now handled like a sportscar compared to before yet without sacrificing the ride. Again this was something my Dad would have appreciated if he had ever really thought about doing it.

The next significant upgrade was installing a Stainless Works dual exhaust system. Okay, this is where Dad and I would disagree. The car looks better with dual exhaust, but I doubt he would have liked the different sound. Now the car growls under acceleration even as you can feel it pull harder.

I have further upgrades planned, but like a lot of things these have been postponed thanks to Covid-19. These upgrades aren't essential and I'll get back to them once life regains some measure of nomalcy.

However, the one upgrade I keep thinking about goes back to one I did earlier: the wheels. Two years ago I chose to be modest and upgraded to 17in. wheels and tires. Now I somewhat regret I hadn't spent more time looking around and possibly opting for 18in. wheels and tires. It isn't an absolute necessity, but I would really like to do it.

My choice is to upgrade to slightly wider 17in. wheels (and save money by keeping my existing tires that have very little mileage on them) or go all in for 18in. wheels requiring I buy new 18in. tires to fit them. I'vw looked at dozens and dozens of different wheels before narrowering down the choices to a handful. This was further complicated by having to consider wheels that would actually fit and discarding those that wouldn't fit no matter how appealing they might look. I then photoshopped the wheels I liked onto an image of my car to get a realistic view of what they could actually look like mounted.


This is what my car looks like presently.




17in. wheels I am considering.

AViD1 AV34 17x8 Hyper Black w. Machined Lip



XXR 555 17x8 Chromium Black w. Machined Lip



Konig Tweak'd 17x7.5 Silver w. Machined Lip



18in. wheels I am considering.

2010-2014 Mustang 5-Spoke 18x8 Sparkle silver




Enkei EV5 18x8 Hyper Black



Avant Garde M220 18x8 Hyper Silver w. Machined Lip



Klutch SL14 18x8.5 Hyper Silver w. Machined Lip


Klutch SLC1 18x8.5 Silver w. Machined Face



F1R F21 17x8.5 Hyper Black w. Machined Lip



Thoughts anyone?

 

[publiusr]

Very nice. Fords often have these mystery electrical problems that few seem to be able to root out.

My dad had a 1974 LTD. I miss it.

 

[Warped9]

These CrownVics are pretty rock solid. None of the Fords my Dad has owned have ever had electrical issues. He had to put very little money in this car and it’s been the same for me. When home it’s garaged, keeping it out of the elements when not in use. I try to maintain it as he did although in some ways I fuss over it more than him. He likely would never have done upgrades as I have even when he was younger.

One upgrade I did wasn’t expensive, but he could have appreciated was the upgraded headlight relay and brighter bulbs giving significantly better lighting at night than before. I had that installed when I upgraded the stabilizer bars.

There are a few more of these cars around town where I live, but none of them, save maybe one, are in this condition. I can’t speak for their mechanical condition, but body wise none look as good as mine. I have had at least three people approach me since I’ve taken ownership offering to buy it.

I now identify with the car and I’m quite fond of it. It also connects me with Dad. And being a sixteen year old vehicle in great condition makes it rather distinctive amongst the more contemporary style cars. I certainly like how it doesn’t have a goddamned iPad like infotainment screen in the middle of the dash—I really don’t care for those things.

Prior to this my father had a ‘93 Mercury Grand Marquis. That car I didn’t really car for. While a similar body as the CrownVic I didn’t care for the grey colour, the interior, the style of grille and taillights and the amount of chrome trim all around. And it was far too cushy to drive for my liking. Dad has owned a lot of Fords over the years: ‘57 Ranchero, ‘59 Custom 300, ‘66 Galaxie 500 and ‘73 Mercury Meteor. The Galaxie was a sweet car—2dr. fastback, black with red interior.

 

[Santaman]

Personally I like the Klutch SLC1 18x8.5 Silver w. Machined Face, looks good on the car.

 

[Warped9]

A lot of the wheels have an almost factory option look to them. Some of the wire mesh style wheels are very nice, but they might also be more of a chore to clean. I not only clean the wheels, but also apply a kind of wax similar to waxing the body paint to protect and preserve the finish. I also watch the curbs not to scratch them.

The car isn’t showroom perfect. I touch up inevitable stone chips. And somebody, probably a pickup truck, scuffed the rear bumper on the driver’s side. I have touched it up and you have to know where to look to see it.

Cute note. Dad’s plates were transferred to me. The plates have the number 007.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

18in. wheels I am considering.

2010-2014 Mustang 5-Spoke 18x8 Sparkle silver



Thoughts anyone?

These are the wheels that most jumped out at me as I was scrolling down. Keeps things in the Ford family, compliments the colors well, and looks sporty and rugged yet dignified.

Nice looking car, btw. I'm glad you could keep that connection to your father.

 

[Warped9]

There are quite a few Mustang wheels that fit CrownVics, particular 2005+ Mustangs. They are a direct fit without requiring any hub rings because they are hub centric. You can also put a Ford blue oval centre cap to replace the Pony or Cobra cap. Aftermarket wheels require hub rings to fit the wheel hub properly and securely.

There are two other considerations. One is some wheels fit better than others in terms of width and wheel offset (the distance from the wheel’s mounting face to the wheel’s centre). The higher the offset (lower numerically) the further outward your wheel protrudes. Go too far out and the wheel might be interfered with by the fender. Generally the wider the wheel (measured in inches) the lower the offset (higher numerically and measured in millimetres) the better the fit. Eg: a 45 offset wheel has less concavity and less lip than a 35 offset wheel. I didn’t post the offsets for each wheel above to avoid confusion.

But generally, for a 2003+ CrownVic (older CrownVics are different):
- a 7.5in. wheel can have a maximum offset of 35-30 to fit.
- an 8in. wheel can have a maximum offset of 38-35.
- an 8.5in. wheel can have a maximum offset of 42-40.
- a 9in. wheel can have a maximum offset of 45.

Beyond those limits becomes problematical with potential rubbing/bumping issues with the fender.

The other consideration is cost. Klutch and Avant Garde wheels are more expensive than the other brands. And along with upsizing to 18in. wheels requires buying appropriately sized tires to fit them. The cost of a set of Klutch or Avant Garde wheels alone nears the cost of a set of the other 18in. wheels along with a new set of tires. Rounded off (in Canadian currency) a set of F1R F21s with a set of Michelin Pilot Sports (my tire of choice) is near $2000. A set of Avant Garde wheels alone would be about $1500.

I like the Klutch and Avant Garde wheels, but likely not $500-$600 better than the others.

The appeal of 17in. wheels is I could keep my current 235/55R17 Michelin tires that have little mileage. Otherwise I would have to sell those tires along with my current rims.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The Enkei EV5 18x8 Hyper Black resemble stock Impala rims, back when they still made the large Impala, and the early days of the first gen smaller Impala. These look closest to the body color, if you want to go that way.

 

[Warped9]

The car is Spruce Green Metallic so any silver or greyish tone will work.

 

[auntiehill]

The F1R F21 17x8.5 Hyper Black w. Machined Lip or Klutch SL14 18x8.5 Hyper Silver w. Machined Lip. A clean, classic look that doesn't take attention away from the vechile.

I don't like the Avant Garde M220 18x8 Hyper Silver w. Machined Lip or Klutch SLC1 18x8.5 Silver w. Machined Face at all. It looks like you're driving with a colander on your tires. You can drive and drain spaghetti at the same time.

 

[Warped9]

The F1R F21 17x8.5 Hyper Black w. Machined Lip or Klutch SL14 18x8.5 Hyper Silver w. Machined Lip. A clean, classic look that doesn't take attention away from the vechile.

The F1R F21 is probably my most preferred choice overall. As an 18in. wheel it just works well and looks integrated with the rest of the car. It also works stylistically with my chromed honeycomb grille. It has a classy and sporty look to it. If I go with an 18in. wheel then it's probably my choice.

The Klutch SL14 looks rather European. It's also a contrast with most wheels on the market these days given it's a convex designed wheel rather than concave. Every time I try to dismiss it I often find myself looking at it again. With that said, though, it is priced about $100 more per wheel than the F1R.

If I stay with a 17in. wheels I am most drawn to the Avid1 AV34 (as its design and finish are very similar to the F1R F21) and XXR 555. I generally do not like dark coloured wheels, but the Chromium Black spokes are interesting in that from a distance they look like a sort of Charcoal Metallic, but up close they look almost as bright as the wheel's machined lip. The more dramatic XXR makes the car look totally different, more serious, more athletic and even a bit menacing--very cool.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The car is Spruce Green Metallic so any silver or greyish tone will work.

An extremely subtle green, I didn't see it at first.

As far as rim size, also consider replacement cost for tires that may have a lower profile than others. My 2005 GTO had 18" rims with low profile tires, and man, those tires were expensive. Around $1500 for the set of four.

 

[Warped9]

I currently have Michelin Pilot Sport A +3 235/55R17 on my car. I really like these tires in all conditions. I got them on sale, but normally they are near $900 for a set. If I went with the same tire as a 235/50/R18 or 245/45R18 then they would get near $1000 a set.

The car looks definitely more green in person.

I have seen some put 19, 20 and even 22in. wheels with really low profile tires on these cars which I think looks very odd to my eyes. A lot of them also lower their cars which I really don’t like the look of—to me the car then looks broken somehow, 19s aren’t too bad, but I think 18s are the sweet spot in terms of visual balance and appearance. I don’t like these cars with factory 16in. wheels—looks undersized and wimpy.

 

[Warped9]

Okay, I just learned (don’t know how I missed it) that the F1R F21 is available as a 17x8.5 w. 45 offset in Hyper Black. Sweet! This could be the best compromise of all. However, I am finding this wheel in this particular size hard to find in Canada. Under normal circumstances I could order this directly from F1R and pick them up at the UPS store in Ogdensburg NY, but presently cross border travel is closed because of Covid-19.

It’s also available in 17x8.5 w. 35 offset, but thats too wide for the CrownVic.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Okay, I just learned (don’t know how I missed it) that the F1R F21 is available as a 17x8.5 w. 45 offset in Hyper Black. Sweet! This could be the best compromise of all. However, I am finding this wheel in this particular size hard to find in Canada. Under normal circumstances I could order this directly from F1R and pick them up at the UPS store in Ogdensburg NY, but presently cross border travel is closed because of Covid-19.

It’s also available in 17x8.5 w. 38 offset, but thats too wide for the CrownVic.

Turning problems?

 

[Warped9]

It might stick out a bit too far for my liking, more specifically on the front wheels. The back is no problem.

 

[Warped9]

XXR 555–very cool!

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[Warped9]

When you have spare time on your hands...

Here is a little quick reference chart to see if a given wheel might fit a CrownVic. Take note that this applies to 2003+ CVs which are different from older models. The listings on the left are referenced against a factory CrownVic LX setup. The listings on the right are for myself against my current setup. Although I have 17 and 18 in. wheels listed the important factor is the width and offset which would result in the same fit regardless of diameter. So a 17x8, 18x8 or 19x8 would fit the same. The measurements in millimetres represent how far outward the face of a new wheel will be measured against my existing wheel (numbers rounded off for Imperial measurements).



The emboldened entries are sizes I believe will fit without issue. Beyond that it becomes problematical from what I've been able to gather. Another factor in play, here, is the size of your tire. This reference is based on 235 size tires against factory 225. If you go 245, 255 or larger you could further affect how wide a wheel you can go. This is also based on factory suspension setup without spacers or lowering of the car.

If you have a CV LX Sport then I believe the factory wheels are 17x7 w. 54 offset. In that case the chart could still apply regarding what sizes you can swap to.

The real takeaway from this reference chart is the maximum offset possible in each wheel size before you risk having issues. So a 7.5in. wheel can go up to 35 (maybe 30), an 8in. wheel can go to 38 (maybe 35), an 8.5 wheel can go to 42 (maybe 40) and a 9in. can go to 45 (maybe 42). And this is based on a 235 size tire. So an 8in. wheel with a 235 tire should be able to go with a 35 offset, but wider than 235 might not work without issue and you would be better off with a lower offset.


Here is a quick-and-dirty illustration of upping wheel size.



First image on the left is my present setup. The centre image is with a 35 offset and the wheel has poked out a further 1/4 in. The right image is a 17x8 w. 35 offset and the wheel has poked further another 1/4 in., or 1/2 inch from the initial setup.

This example isn't fully accurate because the wheel angle would change slightly in relation to our viewpoint. The shape of the tire would also change slightly (assuming we keep the same tire size) between a 17x7.5 and 17x8 wheel wherein the sidewall would balloon a bit more although the width of the tread would stay the same.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Is there a reference that shows the potential inaccuracies for the speedo? How close to the original radius do your options stay.

 

[Warped9]

Yes there is. https://www.willtheyfit.com/

When you change tires from factory sometimes the diameter changes slightly. A slightly smaller tire than factory will result in the car travelling a bit faster than the speedometer indicates and a slightly larger tire has the car going a bit slower than the speedometer reads. Unless the new tire’s diameter is dramatically different the speedometer error is negligible. If the error were significant I believe there is a way to get the speedometer recalibrated.

I went from a 226/60R16 factory tire to a 235/55R17 when upsizing from a 16x7 to a 17x7.5 wheel. I believe the new setup was very slightly greater in diameter than the original, so my car is actually going a slight percentage slower than what the speedometer reads. If I stay with a new 17in. wheel and keep the same tires nothing will change. If I went with a 245/45R17 tire for a bit wider rubber then I believe (from what I remember) the tire diameter could shrink a bit and the speedo error would be even less if not nonexistent.

Going to an 18in. wheel with new rubber starts the calculations all over again. But essentially a 235/50R18 would be slightly larger again than my current 235/55R17 and marginally increase the speedo error. If I went with a 245/45R18 it would reduce the speedo error so I might be close to matching the original speedo calibration.

So, for those who might not know, as you increase wheel diameter you need to decrease the tire sidewall to maintain the generally same tire diameter to not throw off your speedometer too much.

You can also be mindful that going to wider rubber can also affect your fuel economy to some extent because more rubber on the road indeed gives you better traction, but also increases your tire’s rolling resistance. The difference can be negligible or noticeable depending how much wider you go. Bigger wheels with wider rubber also gives the car a different stance so someone’s subjective preferences in how they want the car to look can come into play. Going with 255 or even wider tires (with correspondingly narrower tire sidewalls) will definitely affect your fuel economy. That might not matter for a show car or one little driven, but it might matter if your car is a daily driver.

If I went to an 18in. wheel yet stayed with a 235 tire then my fuel economy shouldn’t change. But a 245 tire would result in a change even if negligible.