What ship type fulfilled the role of the Runabouts and Defiant in the "Lost Era"?

[Redshirt214]

The roles I'm thinking of, in this case, are ships that act as support craft to a station for patrol and other missions for Space Stations, like how we see the Danube class operating or how Defiant acts as part of DS9's defenses (obviously she's a uniquely designed warship, but she dosen't spend 100% of her time fighting the Jem'Hadar or Borg, a lot of the time she does regular starship duties that argument DS9's capabilities). Most importantly, Defiant is permanently based out of DS9 and later Starbase 375. I assume that, if the mission demands it, Starfleet will customarily assign at least one ship permanently to a Starbase\Station, so that there'd never be a time the base would be lacking a ship.

The "Lost Era" I'm thinking of is between the TOS Movies and TNG, to be clear.

My candidates for this would be the Centaur class, I think, as a nice escort\frigate\scout ship that would probably stick close to base (it's 210 meters long, and has less internal volume than a Miranda class ship, so the supplies for the crew are going to be rather limited). The Ranger class from FASA, or close equivalent, might also fulfill the role decently.I assume that back in the day the main enemy ship they'd be countering would be the BoP, a great ship for, say, sneaking over the border and ambushing a starbase.

Really, any small starship might fulfill the role, provided it could out preform a shuttlecraft, which in the Movie period would not be a great feat. In the early TNG era, as shuttles became more capable, I guess arguably larger shuttles like the Type 7 could carry out some of what the Danube class does but certainly not all.

I'd love to hear others thoughts...

 

[publiusr]

Surya for Reliant.

In terms of runabouts, I’d like to see nacelles put on the air tram we see Kirk disembark from in TMP.

I’ve seen similar future car model kit-bashes that were close...I think Forbin did one at starshipmodeler using pen/marker parts for nacelles IIRC

 

[Forbin]

Surya for Reliant.

In terms of runabouts, I’d like to see nacelles put on the air tram we see Kirk disembark from in TMP.

I’ve seen similar future car model kit-bashes that were close...I think Forbin did one at starshipmodeler using pen/marker parts for nacelles IIRC

Are you thinking of my Executive Shuttlecraft? It's just meant to be a classy shuttle for impressing diplomats.
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_shuttle_exec.html

The nearest thing I did to a TOS runabout was my large survey/cargo shuttle. But I'm strict in NOT calling it a runabout, sticking to my guns that that term wasn't invented until DS9.
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_shuttle_vgr.html

 

[USS Firefly]

Good question!
This can mean only one thing, we need more "Lost Era" novels!

 

[FederationHistorian]

For the Defiant, I think it would be either Reliant class, or Soyuz class.

For the runabout, shuttles like the one featured in TFF, but given refits, would do fine.

 

[NCC-73515]

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/SD-103_type

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

As I understand it, the Danube-class was relatively new conceptually as far as it's versatility, however various medium to long range shuttles and small cargo vessels have been seen over the years that might fit the bill:

The 30m warp ring-shuttle from Fallen Hero and Awakening probably represent the earliest contender as far as speed and range go.

Harry Mudd's Class-J shuttle has definite "pre-Runabout" lines and feel to it but is about 20-25% smaller and probably doesn't have the runabout's versatility and defensive capabilities. Spock's warpsled from TMP is in a similar position.

The (Treklit-version of the) Archer-class (best known as the Sagittarius from Star Trek: Vanguard and Star Trek: Seekers) probably sits between the two.

Like the Danube, comparing the Defiant to anything that came before is tricky because of it's unique features, however anything labelled as a "frigate" or "destroyer" -- Franz Joseph's Saladin-class, FASA's Larson-class and potentially the Centaur-type as Captain Reynolds appears to have been attached to either Destroyer Unit 2 or 6 in Sacrifice of Angels -- is probably the closest fit that we're likely to get.

 

[Timo]

That the Danube would be new conceptually is ambiguous at best. It might be that the designation "runabout" was new, as of DS9 "Paradise"; ships in that size and capacity range are evident in DSC, TOS and TAS, though, and quite possibly simply went by a different name.

Vulcans might indeed be particularly relevant pundits there, perhaps because their psyche is suited for small crews in confined spaces for not insignificant mission durations. And yes, the warp ring shuttle is a fine example of a craft in the category. Yet curiously, we have seldom seen outpost auxiliaries of any sort.

Standard shuttles were standard fare for small stations in TNG, in dialogue or in matte paintings. That's a bit different from the runabout concept, though. And assorted outposts and bases in TOS appeared to suffer from a plot-relevant dearth of auxiliaries. Or was it just that back then, it took so long to prepare one of those for flight that they never were attractive for solving the crisis of the week?

Fandom offers a full range of designs we could apply for the "Lost Years" base auxiliary, but there are no canon models (esp. the unnamed background ones) that would immediate shout "small but independent auxiliary built in 2348!". Nacelle type would be the most relevant thing there, I guess.

However, this design, never seriously a candidate for Type 7 shuttle despite (or because of) appearances, is my bet for an early TNG/pre-TNG runabout, with the right nacelle style and with a commonalized cockpit accompanied by an apparent rear cabin with a big window:

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x23/skinofevil_hd_071.jpg

It's also the only auxiliary in TNG that ever explicitly was witnessed at warp!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I always got the impression that the runabouts were fulfilling a 'gap in the market' when they were introduced in the late 2360s - there was a demand for a mini-starship for missions over and above those that you could reasonably expect a shuttlecraft to perform and where sending a full starship wasn't feasible.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There are those missions where you don't need to park a StarShip in orbit, but need to be there long enough to be the equivalent of a Short Camping Excursion.

So the RunAbouts are effectively Giant RV's in XL Shuttle Form.

You get all the comforts of a Luxury RV while you're out Glamping.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I always got the impression that the runabouts were fulfilling a 'gap in the market' when they were introduced in the late 2360s - there was a demand for a mini-starship for missions over and above those that you could reasonably expect a shuttlecraft to perform and where sending a full starship wasn't feasible.

FWIW, the DS9:TM pretty much indicates this was the case.

This vehicle was designed to accomplish four main missions; the ability to perform rapid response scientific expedition transportation, the ability to act as an orbital or landed temporary operations base for science missions, the ability to transport intact experiment and cargo modules, and the ability to perform tactical missions such as intelligence gathering, covert insertion/extraction of personnel, and disruption of threat activities where feasible

That the Danube would be new conceptually is ambiguous at best. It might be that the designation "runabout" was new, as of DS9 "Paradise"; ships in that size and capacity range are evident in DSC, TOS and TAS, though, and quite possibly simply went by a different name.

The Solkar-class Vulcan corvette (oddly called a cruiser at one point) is either ~35m long (based on EAS' estimate from Lethe (DSC)) or 43.3m based on the Discovery: OSC. If so, they'd be a reasonable candidate to fill the starbase or outpost auxiliary vessel niche, but they're rather too big for the starship auxiliary vessel role that at least one episode of TNG hints the runabouts are also used for.

The Class-C shuttle is a bit larger than TNG models at 13m or so, but still seems a little small for medium range travel and probably doesn't have the flexibility of the runabout.

 

[Dukhat]

[URL]https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Jenolan
[/URL]
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Raven

I always thought the Sydney class starship fulfilled the duties of a runabout during the first half of the Lost Years, and the Raven-type ship fulfilled the duties of a runabout during the latter half. Both vessels are far larger than a runabout but seem to come from the same design attributes (although I don’t know if either ship has landing capability.)

 

[Timo]

Heck, the Sydney is a starship, just as large as Kirk's: it's got the same engines, the same bridge module, and a more voluminous hull. Why not give a station one of those for support? Or a Miranda for that matter? Probably because Starfleet can't afford such things: stations never have starships for support in any adventure, unless they are starbases that live and breathe starships.

The Raven might be runaboutish, but I trust there are a zillion designs we never get to see, and the Lost Years starbase do-it-alls are among those. No doubt with a catchy designation such as cutter or brig or whatever...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Heck, the Sydney is a starship, just as large as Kirk's: it's got the same engines, the same bridge module, and a more voluminous hull. Why not give a station one of those for support? Or a Miranda for that matter? Probably because Starfleet can't afford such things: stations never have starships for support in any adventure, unless they are starbases that live and breathe starships.

Let me amend my previous statement about the Sydney class. The Jenolan was definitely as large as the TMP Enterprise, but reuses of the model for DS9 (where they flipped the ship over) was probably meant to represent a smaller transport vessel, not the same class as the Sydney.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Jenolan
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Raven
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Raven

I always thought the Sydney class starship fulfilled the duties of a runabout during the first half of the Lost Years, and the Raven-type ship fulfilled the duties of a runabout during the latter half. Both vessels are far larger than a runabout but seem to come from the same design attributes (although I don’t know if either ship has landing capability.)

The Raven-type essentially replaced the Oberth-class as a survey vessel, and if it was upgunned might be able to fill a similar convoy escort role of the Saber or Defiant class, but in no universe is it even remotely comparable to the runabout.

The Sydney is estimated to be a similar length and tonnage to the Constellation-class star cruiser, in it's day arguably the successor of the Constitution-class heavy cruiser. While it might be a civilian design and therefore lacking in firepower, it's still a more serious starship than a runabout.

While I'm not overly keen on many of the FASA designs, their Scorpio-class corvette fits in reasonably well as a successor to the Solkar-class corvette of the mid-2200s, although there's probably an as yet unseen intermediate between the Scorpio and the Danube.

The Jenolan was definitely as large as the TMP Enterprise, but reuses of the model for DS9 (where they flipped the ship over) was probably meant to represent a smaller transport vessel, not the same class as the Sydney.

Far enough, but it's still using the same docking port as the Defiant and the Bird of Prey, so the minimum it could be is a similar size to the Raven-type.

 

[Dukhat]

The Raven-type essentially replaced the Oberth-class as a survey vessel, and if it was upgunned might be able to fill a similar convoy escort role of the Saber or Defiant class, but in no universe is it even remotely comparable to the runabout.

I’m not quite sure where you got any of that information from. First of all, there’s no evidence that the Raven type replaced the Oberth. And the only canon information we know about the Raven type was that the Raven was a civilian Federation vessel used by a civilian family in the 2350’s. I speculated that it was a former Starfleet vessel because of its design, but I could be completely wrong about that. For all I know it was a one-off ship built by the Hansen family. And its design strongly resembles a runabout, if not its size.

 

[Unicron]

Jackill has some designs that might arguably fill the Defiant's role, like the Orca and Jester classes from the Oberth design family, the Hellion class heavy destroyer, and some of the other destroyer designs. FASA has some corvettes like the Scorpio and perhaps a design like the Andor missile frigate. Just off the top of my head.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Jenolan
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Raven
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Raven

I always thought the Sydney class starship fulfilled the duties of a runabout during the first half of the Lost Years, and the Raven-type ship fulfilled the duties of a runabout during the latter half. Both vessels are far larger than a runabout but seem to come from the same design attributes (although I don’t know if either ship has landing capability.)

The Sydney / Jenolan are similar to IRL over-sized Amazon Logistics Warehouses that are multiple stories tall.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

First of all, there’s no evidence that the Raven type replaced the Oberth

Perhaps I left out a "should". They're similar-sized and mainly seen used for similar purposes and the Raven is a lot newer.

I speculated that it was a former Starfleet vessel because of its design, but I could be completely wrong about that.

Given that it was described as the USS Raven at least once, I don't see any reason to think you are.

And its design strongly resembles a runabout, if not its size.

Size being the key point. Estimates suggest that the Raven was 3-4 times longer than the Danube-class and as much as thirty times the mass.

The Sydney / Jenolan are similar to IRL over-sized Amazon Logistics Warehouses that are multiple stories tall.

Or container ships increasingly used for over-sea cargo routes.

 

[NCC-73515]

The Raven-type essentially replaced the Oberth-class as a survey vessel, and if it was upgunned might be able to fill a similar convoy escort role of the Saber or Defiant class, but in no universe is it even remotely comparable to the runabout.

The Nova is a more appropriate successor following the Oberth