In Search For Spock what did you think when Captain Kirk kicked Kruge in the face and he fell to his death? Did you agree with it? Did you think it went against everything that Star Fleet represents? Maybe I am kidding. Maybe I am not.
What did you think of Kirk kicking Kruge to his death?
- Thread starter Laughing Dragon
- Start date
I mean, even after he killed Kirk's son, Kirk still tried to save him, and Kruge tried to pull Kirk down with him. What was he supposed to do?
What indeed. There was nothing redeemable about him.
Never cared for it, but hardly something against what Star Trek is about.
Funny, haven't seen that scene in years. It reminds me a bit of a low budget, 80s take of the Obi Wan/Anakin fight scene on the volcanic fire world. Kirk had the high ground..... 
Funny how other franchises did pieces of this stories well before Lucasfilm. I've always thought about Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight in terms of it being a complete parallel, but the end of TSFS isn't that far off either. (Yeah, I know i'm reaching, but its the places my mind goes...)
Funny how other franchises did pieces of this stories well before Lucasfilm. I've always thought about Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight in terms of it being a complete parallel, but the end of TSFS isn't that far off either. (Yeah, I know i'm reaching, but its the places my mind goes...)
Kruge gave the order that resulted in Kirk’s son being executed. He also was responsible for the decision Kirk was forced into regarding setting the Enterprise’s destruct sequence.
Kirk offered to save Kruge despite all this, but Kruge attempted to drag him into a lava pit.
Seems to me like Kirk did what he had to do. it’s not even really a debate.
Kirk offered to save Kruge despite all this, but Kruge attempted to drag him into a lava pit.
Seems to me like Kirk did what he had to do. it’s not even really a debate.
Okay.
You'll let us know when you've worked out whether it's the one or the other?
Sorry. I did not mean it that way. I really wanted to know.
I liked it too when I was young but over the years through others it has been colored as overdramatic. I don't hate it now. At all. But now it gets me thinking.
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In TOS, Kirk loved to paint himself in a corner where he could semi-legitimately kill in self-defense. But only if the victims were worthless non-humans; Klingons he merely stunned to get them out of the way, even when waging open and declared war.
Which is why I don't sweat Kruge's death, which was self-inflicted. I wonder about Kirk gunning down Kruge's henchman with that unique orangish knock-out blast from his phaser. That Klingon never recovers, and supposedly dies with Genesis in the scenario where he was merely comatose or paralyzed. Did Kirk shoot to kill there? Did he know or think that this particular fellah had operated the knife that took the life of his son? Or was it just a case of a nonlethal weapon not quite living up to the desciption?
Timo Saloniemi
Which is why I don't sweat Kruge's death, which was self-inflicted. I wonder about Kirk gunning down Kruge's henchman with that unique orangish knock-out blast from his phaser. That Klingon never recovers, and supposedly dies with Genesis in the scenario where he was merely comatose or paralyzed. Did Kirk shoot to kill there? Did he know or think that this particular fellah had operated the knife that took the life of his son? Or was it just a case of a nonlethal weapon not quite living up to the desciption?
Timo Saloniemi
He did what now?
It was disgraceful kirk should've recognised and respected kruges wishes to identity as a hateful warlord and refrained from further violence and allowed him to drag him to the fiery fall of doom
Decided to defy Vaal, say, just so that he could fight the creature. Or chose to challenge Apollo. A bigger man would just have walked away, even if bowing forehead deep all the way out.
It was really convenient, saying "I am responsible for these 430 lives you are now holding hostage because I made you do so" before proceeding with the killing. Especially in light of adventures like "Omega Glory" where we learn it's actually Kirk's sworn duty to commit suicide instead. But more humanlike adversaries got to live to regret their adversarial antics and suffer through the full comeuppance. Which probably best fits that other type of adventure, "Conscience of the King" or "Dagger of the Mind", where crime is merely an ailment to be pitied, and if Kirk wants punishment instead, he can only ever hope to do cruel and unusual.
In light of that, a boot in the face wasn't all that satisfactory, not being unusual enough, nor particularly cruel.
Timo Saloniemi
As a kid I loved it and as an adult I now wish he'd been resurrected on Genesis so Kirk could kill him again.
This is one of those instances where we're only human.
Kirk is already angry about him having his son executed, yet even still, he tries to rescue him. I think when Kruge tried to pull him down in the pit that was the last straw. Now it was Kirk or Kruge (or both) and Kirk chose self preservation. Starfleet wouldn't expect Kirk to die needlessly in that situation. Now...maybe kicking him in the head as he's saying he's had enough of him...perhaps that's not very Starfleety, but it's very human.
I always found a similar situation in Nemesis when Riker goes after the Viceroy and kicks him to his death. The Viceroy had raped his wife essentially. Perhaps Riker wasn't acting in a very Starfleety fashion, but he was acting like a husband who adored his wife. Ask any man who adores his wife or significant other what they would do in that situation and they'd want to do the same thing.
So I understand both situations and why Kirk and Riker did what they did. Partly it was self preservation, it was them or the enemy. But the added touch of revenge goes to show we are, after all, only human. Even in the 23rd or 24th centuries.
Kirk is already angry about him having his son executed, yet even still, he tries to rescue him. I think when Kruge tried to pull him down in the pit that was the last straw. Now it was Kirk or Kruge (or both) and Kirk chose self preservation. Starfleet wouldn't expect Kirk to die needlessly in that situation. Now...maybe kicking him in the head as he's saying he's had enough of him...perhaps that's not very Starfleety, but it's very human.
I always found a similar situation in Nemesis when Riker goes after the Viceroy and kicks him to his death. The Viceroy had raped his wife essentially. Perhaps Riker wasn't acting in a very Starfleety fashion, but he was acting like a husband who adored his wife. Ask any man who adores his wife or significant other what they would do in that situation and they'd want to do the same thing.
So I understand both situations and why Kirk and Riker did what they did. Partly it was self preservation, it was them or the enemy. But the added touch of revenge goes to show we are, after all, only human. Even in the 23rd or 24th centuries.
Yeah, I'm trying to figure that one out myself
Perhaps Kirk was itching for a fight a bit more than say Captain Picard was in TNG, but even still, he only killed when he had no other choice. Even Kruge. When you think of something like "Arena" he refused to kill the Gorn. So I'd say there were actually times he could have killed, even been justified, and chose not to. Or in "Balance of Terror" when he offered to save the remaining Romulan crew. So I'd actually say the opposite, that he tried to avoid killing if possible.
The fact that Kirk even tried to save him, despite all he had done, is to me the more unbelievable part.
Of course, I've always believed that Kirk hoped saving Kruge in that moment was his and Spock's ticket back up to the BoP...and not because he is an enlightened flower of Roddenberry humanity.
Of course, I've always believed that Kirk hoped saving Kruge in that moment was his and Spock's ticket back up to the BoP...and not because he is an enlightened flower of Roddenberry humanity.
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