"Tin Man" the worst episode of TNG ever?
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"Tin Man" doesn't deserve all the flank it gets. It's okay, but I can name about 12 episodes that are better than it.
But again, let us not forget about the steaming pile of monkey shit that is "Code of Honor".
But again, let us not forget about the steaming pile of monkey shit that is "Code of Honor".
Actually I really enjoyed the episode.
Of course, by that point in the series you realized that the Enterprise and the Romulans were never going to actually fight, so the tension there was pretty non-existent.
The character of Tam was just as annoying as he was suppose to be, but you understood why he was the way he was, and it worked for me.
It's a great episode; I'd put it ... I don't know about top ten, but certainly in the higher bunch. And oddly enough I'd gone until last year without ever seeing it. I don't know why I'd missed it in its original airing, but at least it meant that I would have a great episode I'd never seen before to see now.
Nebusj, just out of curiosity, what episode did "Tin Man" go up against in your very fun and sorely missed "Showdown" threads and who won?
Thank you, by the way (I really do need to post the full vote tallies sometime, but there's always such other things to get around to) ...
According to my records, ``Tin Man'' had the bad fortune to go up against ``Azati Prime''. So, it went down to defeat, 25 votes to 37 (or if you prefer, 40 percent to 60 percent).
(That was a tough month for Next Generation; the next matches were ``Hollow Pursuits'' versus ``Damage'' and ``The Most Toys'' versus ``The Forgotten''.)
According to my records, ``Tin Man'' had the bad fortune to go up against ``Azati Prime''. So, it went down to defeat, 25 votes to 37 (or if you prefer, 40 percent to 60 percent).
(That was a tough month for Next Generation; the next matches were ``Hollow Pursuits'' versus ``Damage'' and ``The Most Toys'' versus ``The Forgotten''.)
No more PMs Supes. We do this here, or not at all.
I never offered an opinion of what episodes are worse than others, so you have no way of knowing whether I think you are in error, and you are berating me over something that never even happened.
And I never accused you of lashing out at another poster, but simply asked if that was the case. So again, you are berating me about something that never happened.
What arrogance? I've offered no opinions, and haven't even dissed any of yours. I've made no statements pertaining to your value, or the value of your stated opinion; nor said anything that implies that I'm right, while you are wrong; nor even hinted that I am in anyway better than you. I haven't even said whether or not I might even agree (to some extent) with your opinion of this particular TNG episode.
Your notion of my "arrogance" is based entirely on something that has happened entirely in your own head, and nowhere else. Again, it never happened.
You accused me elsewhere of derailing this thread with my post, yet here your thread has continued, with people staying, for the most part, on topic. So once again, you've berated me for something that never actually happened.
Your accusation that I'm arrogant is unfounded, but for the reasons I've just given, my accusation of your arrogance is based on actual events.
I never offered an opinion of what episodes are worse than others, so you have no way of knowing whether I think you are in error, and you are berating me over something that never even happened.
And I never accused you of lashing out at another poster, but simply asked if that was the case. So again, you are berating me about something that never happened.
What arrogance? I've offered no opinions, and haven't even dissed any of yours. I've made no statements pertaining to your value, or the value of your stated opinion; nor said anything that implies that I'm right, while you are wrong; nor even hinted that I am in anyway better than you. I haven't even said whether or not I might even agree (to some extent) with your opinion of this particular TNG episode.
Your notion of my "arrogance" is based entirely on something that has happened entirely in your own head, and nowhere else. Again, it never happened.
You accused me elsewhere of derailing this thread with my post, yet here your thread has continued, with people staying, for the most part, on topic. So once again, you've berated me for something that never actually happened.
Your accusation that I'm arrogant is unfounded, but for the reasons I've just given, my accusation of your arrogance is based on actual events.
Superman
Fleet Captain
You don't know the rules very well. PMs are preferred to using threads for disagreements.
The fact remains that you came in and began to accuse me of trying to attack Bailey through this thread. You can deny that all you like, but it's the truth.
As for the topic at hand, I really do think my hatred of the episode has to do with the characterization/portrayal of Tam. I understand he's supposed to be an arrogant, tortured character and all, but I think the performance is too over the top and it destroys any sense of sympathy the audience could have for the character.
\S/
Tam was way too over-the-top which may have been due to the actor.
I felt that the first energy wave sequence was contrived and unnecessary, probably due to lazy writing. The Romulans were dull and one-dimensional.
I did like the semi-cheesy ending where Data realizes that, like Tam finding a place where he belongs with Tin Man, Data belongs on Enterprise.
Worst episode? No. Bottom 20? Yep.
I felt that the first energy wave sequence was contrived and unnecessary, probably due to lazy writing. The Romulans were dull and one-dimensional.
I did like the semi-cheesy ending where Data realizes that, like Tam finding a place where he belongs with Tin Man, Data belongs on Enterprise.
Worst episode? No. Bottom 20? Yep.
"Shades of Grey" doesn't even qualify as an episode, really. :P
For me, "Tin Man" was okay, but not outstanding. The average quality of the third and fourth seasons is just so high though, that this story wouldn't drag it down if you were watching it for the first time in sequence. Tam was SUPPOSED to be annoying, that was the point - though admittedly, a fundamentally unlikeable character rarely makes a good guest star.
Anyway, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Captain DeSoto of the USS Hood in his only appearance. C'mon people, he's so damn cool that people want to take pictures of his DESK!
Mark
For me, "Tin Man" was okay, but not outstanding. The average quality of the third and fourth seasons is just so high though, that this story wouldn't drag it down if you were watching it for the first time in sequence. Tam was SUPPOSED to be annoying, that was the point - though admittedly, a fundamentally unlikeable character rarely makes a good guest star.
Anyway, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Captain DeSoto of the USS Hood in his only appearance. C'mon people, he's so damn cool that people want to take pictures of his DESK!
Mark
"Tin Man" just barely makes the top third of TNG episodes for me. That's top third. Still, Tam Elbrun's calling Riker "Billy-Boy" grates horrifically.
EEEEW! You re-tasted your dinner.
Don't it just, though?
This one did okay back when I was doing the episode ratings threads, finishing 68th. I'm not sure why it would be a contender for "worst of the series"; too much technobabble is my main complaint, but other episodes had more. The basic plot was a good one.
There are a number of complaints that crop up repeatedly about the episode, which is a good indication of their validity at least to some large segment of the audience. For example, a lot of folks say they like Groener as Elbrun, but complaints about that character seem to head the list for most of the folks who dislike the episode.
A second common complaint is that the plot is derivative, either of "Star Trek - The Motion Picture" or some other earlier film/TV show (I was once accused of "ripping it off" from an episode of "Space: 1999" that I'd never seen).
I'm the least qualified to evaluate the show's good and bad points with any detachment. The thing that I dislike the most about it now is the stilted dialogue and lengthy speeches. Both of those were characteristic of TNG (and of Trek in general) but in many places "Tin Man" carried it to extremes even for Trek. The Act One briefing room scene is a good case in point, as is the Troi/Elbrun scene in the guest quarters.
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